Law School Discussion

Why Affirmative Action is Justified

obamacon

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #490 on: December 08, 2006, 07:38:31 PM »
Lock this thread, please, before it gets even more infected. 

If I recall (it's been a while since I read all the way through), stuff like this has happened before. She locked it for a while back in the day. Maybe she thinks ignoring it is the better call.

Knowing redemption, I'm sure she believes it is a test of our character.   :D

Knowing both of you, my bet is that she forgot anyone still cared.

redemption

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #491 on: December 09, 2006, 06:32:59 AM »
I don't mind einstein and lickandstick's questions & confusions. The truth is that many people entering law school are just plain dumb and will come out even dumber and armed with JDs. The thing is to do one's best to complicate their puerile and simplistic ways of thinking. That's what this thread is for. As long as no-one responds to an obvious troll like big bossman, I'm not inclined to lock it.

redemption

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #492 on: December 09, 2006, 06:47:11 AM »
Haha. Chicken costumes are the best.

Miss P

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #493 on: December 09, 2006, 07:40:35 AM »
Haha. Chicken costumes are the best.

You don't even know the half of it. 

FossilJ

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #494 on: December 09, 2006, 12:00:22 PM »
Full of wonder at why you're still here?

Well it's nice to see you, and I hope your day improves. 

Now I have to go try to wrangle a two-year-old out of a chicken costume.


 :D :D :D


The imagery is priceless!


Big Bossman

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #495 on: December 09, 2006, 12:10:15 PM »
Obvious troll?  Obviously correct.  "Socioeconomic bias" or whatever the politically correct nomenclature is these days does not account for a 10 point difference in LSAT score and a 4 point difference in IQ. 

For all of you idealists, fasten your blinders and continue to merrily skip down the yellow brick road.

parsley

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #496 on: December 11, 2006, 05:40:48 AM »
Red, I missed about 30 pages in between.  But had a few moments to spare in special ed and thought I'd try to wrap my puny mind around the immensity of your intelligence.

But I couldn't get through the beginning.  I kept getting caught up by a few things...

1. You can't measure stereotype threat by comparing simple test results between races.  Even if you control for other factors.

2. So then what you have evidence of is a performance gap.  That's often confused with stereotype threat, but it's not the same thing.

3. Elimiting stereotype threat does NOT eliminate (although it may alleviate) a performance gap.

Quote
Steele and Aronson 1995 found that making race salient when taking a test of cognitive ability negatively affected high-ability African American students. They name this phenomenon stereotype threat. Sackett et al. 2004 point out that these findings are widely misinterpreted to mean that eliminating stereotype threat eliminated the Black-White performance gap. See also Cohen and Sherman 2005, Helms 2005, Wicherts 2005 and Sackett et al. 2005 for discussion of the implications of stereotype threat for race and intelligence research.

4. So if there's no causal relationship yet established between LSAT and stereotype threat, there could (and most likely are) other factors - cultural or otherwise-  contributing to a performance gap.  And no, those all can't be eliminated by controlling for income, GPA, major and UG.

5. If we cannot establish what part of the performance gap is due to stereotype threat, can law schools be expected to compensate for it?  To make a moral argument for a test bump you'd need compelling causal evidence of measurable discrimination.

6. You present little argument for why law schools are obliged to compensate for stereotype threat, which is essentially a psychological factor.  But you also present no evidence for why they should compensate for a performance gap with unknown causes.

7. Your measure of success of AA (Michigan study) is interesting, but flawed.  And has zero across the board applicability.

If you've already addressed these concerns, send them my way. 

parsley

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #497 on: December 11, 2006, 06:58:54 AM »
Quote
Red, I missed about 30 pages in between.  But had a few moments to spare in special ed and thought I'd try to wrap my puny mind around the immensity of your intelligence.

sarcasm works better in shorter sentences.

I can't read 30 pages. I am in special ed. I had free time. I am trying to understand your smart things.


Better?

parsley

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #498 on: December 11, 2006, 07:21:52 AM »
are you being sarcastic?
 ???

redemption

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #499 on: December 11, 2006, 07:26:18 AM »
Like this?

You know what annoys me about you, parsnip? You thing you have something; you think you are somebody. I blame it on social promotion; it's enough to turn me into a eugenicist.

I will respond to the last several pages of commentary at some point in the reasonably near future.