Law School Discussion

Why Affirmative Action is Justified

FossilJ

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #420 on: August 01, 2006, 08:53:05 PM »
Every post by The Architect (nee Breadboy) borders on the farcical and is laced with lunacy.  If anyone is still taking him seriously, they only have themselves to blame.


Did someone get a shiny new thesaurus?

Another case in point.

dbgirl

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #421 on: August 01, 2006, 09:32:42 PM »
Every post by The Architect (nee Breadboy) borders on the farcical and is laced with lunacy.  If anyone is still taking him seriously, they only have themselves to blame.


I don't know ... every once in a while he sounds serious. I can't decide if he really is an obnoxious jerk or an emotionally disturbed guy who gets off on pretending to be an obnoxious jerk  :-\

Yoda, Esq.

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #422 on: August 01, 2006, 09:36:58 PM »
Every post by The Architect (nee Breadboy) borders on the farcical and is laced with lunacy.  If anyone is still taking him seriously, they only have themselves to blame.


I don't know ... every once in a while he sounds serious. I can't decide if he really is an obnoxious jerk or an emotionally disturbed guy who gets off on pretending to be an obnoxious jerk  :-\


I don't know why you people insist it has to be one or the other. Can't the man be an obnoxious jerk who gets off on being an obnoxious jerk? Why must you try to limit him, hm?

FossilJ

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #423 on: August 01, 2006, 09:39:43 PM »
Every post by The Architect (nee Breadboy) borders on the farcical and is laced with lunacy.  If anyone is still taking him seriously, they only have themselves to blame.


I don't know ... every once in a while he sounds serious. I can't decide if he really is an obnoxious jerk or an emotionally disturbed guy who gets off on pretending to be an obnoxious jerk  :-\


All lunatics believe they're serious.

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #424 on: August 01, 2006, 09:49:54 PM »
All lunatics believe they're serious.

One of your more glaring weaknesses is your habit of conflating disagreement and stupidity.

FossilJ

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #425 on: August 01, 2006, 10:22:20 PM »
All lunatics believe they're serious.

One of your more glaring weaknesses is your habit of conflating disagreement and stupidity.


No.  Disagreement is reasonable.  Stupidity isn't.  You've firmly established yourself in the latter category.

Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #426 on: August 01, 2006, 10:37:48 PM »
No.  Disagreement is reasonable.  Stupidity isn't.  You've firmly established yourself in the latter category.

It's almost unbelievable that you think so. Perhaps these serious threads arenít for you, you'd certainly have more fun in the OPC.

FossilJ

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #427 on: August 01, 2006, 10:59:04 PM »
You see, I'd be a lunatic if I started arguing with you here and thought that the result would be different from the norm, which is you dancing around the point, sprinkling in your one-eyed half-baked "truths" ad nauseum.

That's the definition of insanity.  Repeating an action when everything remains constant and expecting different results.

Therefore, this is the end of our conversation.  I don't really need to make the point, anyway.  It's clear to any and all people on this board already.
 

Miss P

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified
« Reply #428 on: August 01, 2006, 11:41:11 PM »
No.  Disagreement is reasonable.  Stupidity isn't.  You've firmly established yourself in the latter category.

It's almost unbelievable that you think so. Perhaps these serious threads arenít for you, you'd certainly have more fun in the OPC.


I don't think you're stupid.  I think you're quite strange, and it's hard for me to imagine your having a decent social live (girlfriend, you say?), but you're not stupid.  I do disagree with you about most things, and I find your habit of making provacative remarks and then refusing to answer questions or debate a little annoying.

Lily Jaye

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Re: Why Affirmative Action is Justified (by red.)
« Reply #429 on: August 02, 2006, 08:43:04 AM »
Hey Lily!  Thanks for the thoughtful response.  I agree for the most part and just have a couple of questions/comments.

I meant to say that B-E can explain the educational performance gap between low-SES white children and comparably low-SES minority children.   However, the fact that the gap between low-SES children of all races and high-SES children of all races is much greater than low-SES whites and blacks suggests that these factors aren't as important as SES.

Is this true? I haven't seen very good studies on this outside of the SAT studies, which bear this out to some extent but which also suggest that race itself is significant.  In the SAT studies, you see about an 80-point gap on both verbal and math scores between same-income black and white testtakers (and I think the gap even is a little higher when you look at parental education level).  I also know that the gap between low-income or low-parental education level African Americans and high-income and high-parental education level African Americans is smaller than the same gap among white testtakers: in relative terms, African-American kids don't get as much of a boost from class mobility as white kids.  Race is a significant variable; so is class.  We should look at both.

1. It's been a while, and since I don't have access to JSTOR again until September, so I'm going strictly on memory.  Which, since I'm still waking up, is a wee bit shaky.

I think I'm saying the same thing that you are -- blacks get less of a social boost from social mobility, but it's still a boost.  I'm focusing on the second clause; you're focusing on the first.

2. That said, I remember that my problem with the SAT studies is that they assume that equivalent income equals equivalent school districts -- not to mention equivalent schools within school districts.  That's not the case, especially once you start dealing with magnets.  It's a helpful barometer -- and the only type that can be done on a large scale, given the localized nature of our nation's schools -- but you see different patterns if you compare adjacent school systems with comparable income levels but different property tax rates.  (Of course, depending on the size of the school district, then it can be difficult to get a statistically significant sample.)

2. There's also a difference between net worth and income.  If a kid's parents are in certain types of business partnerships, it can look like they have an income of 50,000 a year -- even if their parents' business is worth 3-5 million, and their personal net assets are in the 1 million vicinity.  (And yes, it can look this way without embezzlement.)   I'm not sure how many people this would affect or if it would be statistically significant at the national level, though.  My hunch is that it wouldn't matter nationally; however, it would explain trends in certain districts.

3. I agree that we should look at both.  I think, however, that it's time for researchers to start asking more specific questions. 

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I was just pointing out that if you frame your argument in a way that appears to only addresses the racial aspect, you're not going to convince many middle-class white kids.  Why?  Because most people don't pay attention to details: they look the broad frame, and then decide if they agree with that frame or not. 

You are probably right here, but I am also kind of sick of pandering to people who refuse to acknowledge that race remains a fundamental division in our society.  Sorry for my grumps on this one.

Fair enough.