Law School Discussion

OMFG

redemption

Re: OMFG
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2006, 07:25:02 AM »

would you have realized otherwise?

also, as for AA, you don't think a program that specifically advantages social groups reinforces group identity?

Advantages?

Depends on the group.

Also, you're asian - i'd assume you were racist. j/k (maybe)

Re: OMFG
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2006, 07:25:29 AM »
I agree red, it was complete trash.  Nothing else was on though and i was tired of flipping through.

redemption

Re: OMFG
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2006, 07:26:54 AM »
Gotcha.

redemption

Re: OMFG
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2006, 07:32:53 AM »
benefits?

It's not semantics. If someone believes that life starts and ends in the span of an application cycle, I can imagine them viewing AA as an advantage/benefit. Otherwise I don't get it.

redemption

Re: OMFG
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2006, 07:38:52 AM »

You're telling me the motivation of the persons standing in the second hypo. hard to argue that the person is motivated by race when you flatly claim that they're not.

In the first hypo, I'd lead off with a discussion of why AA is "racist". The answer, in mst cases, will be flimsy and the disparity between the strength of the conviction and the weakness of the rationale would lead to further exploration.

It seems you want me to make an argument supporting a conclusion
(namely, I suppose, this one:
There are examples of ideas that are held by racists for racist reasons that are also held by non-racists for non-racist reasons.)

But you're not really putting any arguments contradicting that conclusion, either.  You're argument seems to be something like: all arguments (or at least: all I've seen) supporting such a conclusion are invalid.

I suppose my argument is something like: all arguments I've seen contradicting that conclusion are invalid.  (since I haven't seen any - but to be fair, I'm not sure there are any EDIT: any valid ones contradicting that conclusion)


You're losing me  ???

redemption

Re: OMFG
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2006, 07:43:35 AM »
<---rolls eyes.

okay, so for the purposes of applications ONLY, does one become very aware of one's race?

not sure what you're rolling your eyes about.

Sure - people apparently get disappointed in their LSAT score or admissions outcomes, look around, and pick on AA as the cause. I ask myself - why? It wouldn't be my own instinct to even think of AA as the reason why I failed, let alone to have such a strong view about it.  You'll notice that it's the borderline people - the people waitlisted or rejected by schools at which their numbers fall just short of the 25th percentile that go on a rant. Googler, for example, is a 3.57/173 and was dinged by Harvard.


redemption

Re: OMFG
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2006, 07:45:33 AM »
I'm just saying this conclusion:

There are examples of ideas that are held by racists for racist reasons that are also held by non-racists for non-racist reasons

(or a different one if you prefer to list one)

is "on the table"


It seems you disagree with this conclusion. It seems to me that this is because you believe arguments supporting it are invalid rather than because there is a valid argument contradicting it.  If you have a valid argument contradicting it, I'm interested.

Oh, that's why I was lost. i thought that I had already stipulated that this was possible in principle. My position is that I haven't seen it yet on this board, which is not to say that it's not there.

redemption

Re: OMFG
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2006, 07:52:14 AM »
i'm not talking about the AA bashers.  i'm talking about people who are URM.  do they become more conscious of the fact that they form a distinct group, and as a result start identifying more with other URM's than they would otherwise?

I have no reason to believe that they identify more with other URMs than otherwise, and I'm not sure that there's anything inherently wrong with it even if they did.

You're leading me somewhere, and I'm not sure about the destiination yet  :)

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Re: OMFG
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2006, 07:54:18 AM »
<---rolls eyes.

okay, so for the purposes of applications ONLY, does one become very aware of one's race?

not sure what you're rolling your eyes about.

Sure - people apparently get disappointed in their LSAT score or admissions outcomes, look around, and pick on AA as the cause. I ask myself - why? It wouldn't be my own instinct to even think of AA as the reason why I failed, let alone to have such a strong view about it.  You'll notice that it's the borderline people - the people waitlisted or rejected by schools at which their numbers fall just short of the 25th percentile that go on a rant. Googler, for example, is a 3.57/173 and was dinged by Harvard.



Ok, let's take it out of the realm of ls apps.

Let's say a general contractor is selecting subcontractors for a job.  Company 1 employs mostly hispanics but is owned by a white male.  They have an excellent safety rating, an excellent reputation, always get the job done right/on time/etc.  Company 2 employs mostly hispanics but is owned by a black male.  They have a pretty good safety rating, a pretty good reputation, and they've only had a couple of jobs in which they didn't finish the job on time.  Now, the client for whom the GC is working has a policy regarding WAMOB (women and minority owned businesses) which means that the GC must select Company 2 because it is owned by a minority.

Would you say that there is a reason that does not include racism that one might oppose this?

redemption

Re: OMFG
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2006, 07:54:28 AM »
I guess I'm saying that an argument contradicting it is not there, either.

Each case is particular. That's why I try and engage the person directly and have an extended back-and-forth, rather than giving a generic answer.