Law School Discussion

For the older students...

LitDoc

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Re: For the older students...
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2006, 01:30:12 PM »
I don't really think Americans struggle with it that much, but we just have a different attitude about alcohol so it seems like a bigger problem than it is. I'm saying this a a non-drinker, so it's not like I am trying to hide any drinking problem.

How much Americans struggle with it is relative (in comparison to ____). Whether or not Americans struggle with alcohol and/or alcoholism is a yes/no question. Look at the number of drunk-driving deaths & injuries per year, the number of alcohol-related diseases/health problems, the number of alcohol-related arrests made (for domestic violence & other crimes), the number of unwanted pregnancies & STDs resulting from alcohol use, etc., etc., etc. -- and I think it's hard to say that alcohol isn't a problem, or that Americans don't "struggle" with it.

Again, you can argue that we don't struggle "as much" as others -- but frankly I don't see the relevance. If I have a problem, my problem isn't alleviated or lessened in any way by the fact that somebody else has a bigger problem. My attitude toward my own problem might be changed -- my sympathy/empathy for the other person's problem might increase -- but I still have my own problem.

likewise

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Re: For the older students...
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2006, 01:32:30 PM »
This is a social profession. Contacts, just as in the real world, are important. Alcohol breaks down social barriers and enables you to connect, albeit superficially, with your peers. Real connections can be built from the superficial ones. Ultimately, it is beneficial for the school if the entire class knows (and hopefully likes) one another. Alumni support, not only financially, but in a nepotistic-esque way is very important to a school's relative worth.

As is contantly stated, it is possible to get bogged down in reading and studying. Some non-trads are concerned about not seeing families. How does one expect to make friends outside of a, likely limited, study group if there does not exist this social activity?

I am perfectly willing to accept that booze is not the "best" way to encourage social behavior, but unless we are willing to revamp our insular society it is all we have. And don't start on me about alternative activities. Opera, lectures, sports etc. All useless.

In conclusion, I like drinking and I want to convince everyone else to like it as well. Don't play sports. You will only meet jocks. And all people that enjoy opera are completely insufferable. And if you could meet people in lectures we wouldn't have this problem.

I don't drink.  How do you suggest I network?

LitDoc

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Re: For the older students...
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2006, 01:43:14 PM »
Talk to people. Be friendly. Look for opportunities to be around people you don't know.

Honestly, I struggle with this a bit -- I'm very talkative (too much so, sometimes) with people I know, but not so great at introducing myself and striking up conversations with people I don't know. I understand fully the appeal of alcohol, for loosening up the conversation valves. But I think it's better to just push yourself and develop the skill, rather than rely on alcohol as a crutch.

If you don't actually develop the social skill without alcohol, then you always need alcohol. That can't be good, can it?

Re: For the older students...
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2006, 01:54:08 PM »
it shouldn't be you that needs the alcohol. It is the other people. They are the ones who cannot make relationships without it. Since drinking is social, you have to do it to convince others to.

Of course there are other ways (sports, opera, interesting lectures, etc.) but you should probably learn how to fake drink. 






plaintext

Re: For the older students...
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2006, 02:06:36 PM »

i don't think they're advocating taking along a beer funnel and chugging before the new person they're about to meet, but the thought is entertaining ;D

likewise

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Re: For the older students...
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2006, 02:12:12 PM »
it shouldn't be you that needs the alcohol. It is the other people. They are the ones who cannot make relationships without it. Since drinking is social, you have to do it to convince others to.

Of course there are other ways (sports, opera, interesting lectures, etc.) but you should probably learn how to fake drink. 







Yeah,  I'm a Friend of Bill's.  I don't need to learn how fake drink.  Think I'll stick to iced tea or coffee.

jacy85

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Re: For the older students...
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2006, 02:26:38 PM »
First, just because there is alcohol at an event doesn't need you have to drink it.

And second, I belive Americans have more "problems" with alcohol because people are so uptight about it.  Yes, we have more drunk driving deaths than countries that drink more alcohol.  But because other countries drink more alcohol, they don't feel this stupid need to binge.

When you grow up having wine or beer with dinner, and are around alcohol as a cultural/social facet your entire life, there's no need to rush out and get sh*t-faced when you turn 18/19/21 (depending on what country you're in).  Americans are so damn uptight about it, so issues are blown out of proportion (or at least are made to be bigger than they have to be).

Seriously, you don't NEED alcohol to network.  YOu don't NEED alcohol to make friends in law school.  Yes, there are people who do feel they need it; that's a whole other problem, likely resulting from self-esteem issues. But if I want to have a glass of wine at a firm function, or have a beer after a long day of class on Thursdays, that in no way means I'm dependent on alcohol.

Seriously, I'm thinking some people have some really HUGE sticks shoved somewhere...


likewise

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Re: For the older students...
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2006, 02:29:39 PM »
First, just because there is alcohol at an event doesn't need you have to drink it.

And second, I belive Americans have more "problems" with alcohol because people are so uptight about it.  Yes, we have more drunk driving deaths than countries that drink more alcohol.  But because other countries drink more alcohol, they don't feel this stupid need to binge.

When you grow up having wine or beer with dinner, and are around alcohol as a cultural/social facet your entire life, there's no need to rush out and get sh*t-faced when you turn 18/19/21 (depending on what country you're in).  Americans are so damn uptight about it, so issues are blown out of proportion (or at least are made to be bigger than they have to be).

Seriously, you don't NEED alcohol to network.  YOu don't NEED alcohol to make friends in law school.  Yes, there are people who do feel they need it; that's a whole other problem, likely resulting from self-esteem issues. But if I want to have a glass of wine at a firm function, or have a beer after a long day of class on Thursdays, that in no way means I'm dependent on alcohol.

Seriously, I'm thinking some people have some really HUGE sticks shoved somewhere...



TITCR.  Thank you.  My head was 'bout ready to pop.

Re: For the older students...
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2006, 03:00:20 PM »
First, just because there is alcohol at an event doesn't need you have to drink it.

And second, I belive Americans have more "problems" with alcohol because people are so uptight about it.  Yes, we have more drunk driving deaths than countries that drink more alcohol.  But because other countries drink more alcohol, they don't feel this stupid need to binge.

When you grow up having wine or beer with dinner, and are around alcohol as a cultural/social facet your entire life, there's no need to rush out and get sh*t-faced when you turn 18/19/21 (depending on what country you're in).  Americans are so damn uptight about it, so issues are blown out of proportion (or at least are made to be bigger than they have to be).

Seriously, you don't NEED alcohol to network.  YOu don't NEED alcohol to make friends in law school.  Yes, there are people who do feel they need it; that's a whole other problem, likely resulting from self-esteem issues. But if I want to have a glass of wine at a firm function, or have a beer after a long day of class on Thursdays, that in no way means I'm dependent on alcohol.

Seriously, I'm thinking some people have some really HUGE sticks shoved somewhere...


In some ways I agree, but from my personal experience, binge drinking is not limited to Americans. It happens everywhere, but people just aren't as uptight about it in other countries. People aren't going to be labeled alcoholics just because they go to a pub every night after finishing work, while that tends to be the norm here. 

Re: For the older students...
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2006, 03:13:23 PM »

i don't think they're advocating taking along a beer funnel and chugging before the new person they're about to meet, but the thought is entertaining ;D

I would hire that person if I had the chance.

it shouldn't be you that needs the alcohol. It is the other people. They are the ones who cannot make relationships without it. Since drinking is social, you have to do it to convince others to.

Of course there are other ways (sports, opera, interesting lectures, etc.) but you should probably learn how to fake drink. 


Yeah,  I'm a Friend of Bill's.  I don't need to learn how fake drink.  Think I'll stick to iced tea or coffee.

 okay, I should have known better than to have advocated a position on which someone could have taken offence. Obviously nobody needs to drink and nobody should be required to drink but this threads was taking on a distinct "drinking is bad" attitude and I hate that.

Nobody is being irresponsible by proffering alcohol to adults.

Now, an interesting question is why alcohol is so prevalent in the business world. Besides quickly enabling social interaction (if you are meeting an associate for the first time you may not have time to spend going to the opera) I wonder if there is a bit of a game going on.

I remember reading, in a international business magazine, that one should organise a dinner, arrive early, order a watered down drink and then, as the dinner progresses, order drinks by asking for the "same again." That way, the people around you get plastered and you stay sober. brilliant for getting your way in the meeting.

Maybe there is something to that.