Law School Discussion

Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #640 on: May 21, 2008, 05:22:27 PM »
your big boy pants are sexy, J

Also, bearly, fyi, Dash offered a reasonable alternative explanation to "omg you must like arguing you did it here" - the evidence you offered proves nothing. [insert personal attack here]

BearlyLegal

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #641 on: May 21, 2008, 05:30:07 PM »
1.  You are STILL (NOT surprisingly) refusing to properly engage with the term "white privilege" -- this DESPITE the fact that you and I had seemed to come to agreement on all its major substantive elements sans the name itself, which I shrugged off as a lost cause, and frankly, your right to pick and choose your terms.  Your continued refusal to reasonably do so at least partially negates your claim that people should "actually address personal arguments".

Seriously, dude.  It is not hard to have your cake and eat it too here.  You can admit to "white privilege" (which, for all intents and purposes, you DID previously in this thread) while still carving all your exceptions into it, since they're NOT mutually exclusive. 
I'm sorry man, you and I just disagree on this one. I never agreed to the concept of "white privilege", I agreed to the concept of "minority under-privilege" these are not the same thing. White people who don't fit the common mold don't benefit from white privilege; and practical racism is the practice of over-generalization based on race. I don't like racism so I don't like blatantly racist labels. In my homeland, they used to call Jews "money-hungry", and frankly this is no different.

It's not right when it's done to black people, and it's not right when it's done to whites either. Just because it's being said by liberal white people doesn't make it right in principle.

Quote
2.  Now, on a more personal tangent, don't stick your nose into the "big boy pants" thing.  I engaged you because you're not a troll.  I mocked feminine hygiene product McGee over there because it's a troll.  The arguments it's trying to drag into this thread have been rehashed a million times on this board -- I've certainly been part of a number of those, and substantively so.  It doesn't want to discuss -- it wants to preach a point and annoy those it sees as opponents.  If you feared I'm seeing you and that troll the same, I don't.  But don't drag me into any slur campaigns just because I interacted with the troll on its own level.
I appreciate that you don't think I am a troll, but TBH I don't think "McGee" is a troll either. He's not eloquent, and his arguments aren't ones I agree with, but I don't see why we can't destroy his argument on it's merits (or lack thereof). Name-calling just isn't very constructive IMO.


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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #642 on: May 21, 2008, 05:38:15 PM »
1.  You are STILL (NOT surprisingly) refusing to properly engage with the term "white privilege" -- this DESPITE the fact that you and I had seemed to come to agreement on all its major substantive elements sans the name itself, which I shrugged off as a lost cause, and frankly, your right to pick and choose your terms.  Your continued refusal to reasonably do so at least partially negates your claim that people should "actually address personal arguments".

Seriously, dude.  It is not hard to have your cake and eat it too here.  You can admit to "white privilege" (which, for all intents and purposes, you DID previously in this thread) while still carving all your exceptions into it, since they're NOT mutually exclusive. 
I'm sorry man, you and I just disagree on this one. I never agreed to the concept of "white privilege", I agreed to the concept of "minority under-privilege" these are not the same thing. White people who don't fit the common mold don't benefit from white privilege; and practical racism is the practice of over-generalization based on race. I don't like racism so I don't like blatantly racist labels. In my homeland, they used to call Jews "money-hungry", and frankly this is no different.

It's not right when it's done to black people, and it's not right when it's done to whites either. Just because it's being said by liberal white people doesn't make it right in principle.


::sigh::

White people always benefit from white privilege.  "White privilege" does not negate simultaneous "cultural prejudice" which may counteract that privilege in extremely complex ways. 

The most interesting element you and I ever talked about, and the one you ditched quickly (which was sad -- I don't think you did so intentionally, though), was what "white" means.  Because race itself is very difficult to pinpoint -- some groups are right on the edge of a number of racial categories, and others, while clearly Caucasian, don't "look" Caucasian.  Like I said, in the context of "white privilege", race is only skin-deep. 


I mean, it's not like we're enemies here.  We disagree about nuances, not about the fact that discrimination is complex and rife for all populations that stray from a norm.



Quote
2.  Now, on a more personal tangent, don't stick your nose into the "big boy pants" thing.  I engaged you because you're not a troll.  I mocked feminine hygiene product McGee over there because it's a troll.  The arguments it's trying to drag into this thread have been rehashed a million times on this board -- I've certainly been part of a number of those, and substantively so.  It doesn't want to discuss -- it wants to preach a point and annoy those it sees as opponents.  If you feared I'm seeing you and that troll the same, I don't.  But don't drag me into any slur campaigns just because I interacted with the troll on its own level.
I appreciate that you don't think I am a troll, but TBH I don't think "McGee" is a troll either. He's not eloquent, and his arguments aren'tones I agree with, but I don't see why we can't destroy his argument on it's merits (or lack thereof). Name-calling just isn't very constructive IMO.




You're just going to have to trust my judgment on this one.  I've been around this board many a year, and even longer on other similar boards.  I was one of the most active voices in the AA board for more than a year.  I've seen 'em come and I've seen 'em go.  I'm quick to jump on insincerity here.  I'm confident I didn't make a mistake on this one.

OperaAttorney

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #643 on: June 21, 2008, 10:11:18 AM »
I haven't read a lot of the posts here, so if my responses are redundant in any way, I apologize in advance. Furthermore, it was my own laziness in college and standardized testing ineptitude that led to me going to a T4 prior to transferring.

Don't you see the inherent hypocrisy in AA? It's like saying "We want to be treated equally, except when it benefits us." I think there is a need to promote diversity in the field of law and I think AA is the government's patchwork attempt at the process. Personally, I think a more economic-based system woudl be appropriate, but I'm not even going to begin to suggest how to implement such a system.

My original T4 school has had a problem with maintaining minority enrollment to the point where they considered imposing a different curve for minority students. In my section of 90 students, there were 9 minority students. 5 dropped out after the first semester, and 2 more followed in the Spring. I've heard these seven individuals participate in class and couldn't comprehend basic legal concepts, or answer questions in class. The school, knowing that the minority dropout rate is staggering, continues to profit from kids who should not be going to law school to begin with. Now, these students are stuck paying back an additional $30K and are in a worse position than when they entered.

My dad is a prosecutor and his boss is an African-American woman who attended Rutgers-Newark. On her application, she declined to indicate her race because she was insulted by the idea that her skin color alone should give her a boost in the applications process. She was ultimately accepted to Rutgers, but once the admissions dept found out that she was black, they threatened to withdraw the acceptance unless she checked off the "African-American" box on her application. She reluctantly did so because Rutgers was far more affordable than her other options. She went from being considered a "catch" to being considered a "quota fulfillment."

I'll ask the OP this. You need life saving surgery, where even the slightest slip-up in the surgical process means the end of your life. You have two potential surgeons, one is white, the other is black. You've met neither, know nothing about their educational or practical backgrounds. With no other information, which one would you choose to perform that surgery?

Funny question. I'd choose the black physician :).

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #644 on: June 21, 2008, 09:25:31 PM »
Funny question. I'd choose the black physician :).

OMG YOU BUMPED THIS THREAD!

But honestly, I'd choose whichever could get there faster.

::shrug::

OperaAttorney

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #645 on: June 22, 2008, 01:55:46 AM »
OMG OperaAttorney f-ing die, you necroposting bastard! This thing was dead for a reason. >:(

To IrrX:

Oh dear.  Your witless exclamation has me quivering in my breeches! ::)

To piggypop:

Nothing like attempting to resurrect a tired dog.  Kudos to the ppl who kept things going with the BearlyLegal group!

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #646 on: June 22, 2008, 03:06:20 PM »
I haven't read a lot of the posts here, so if my responses are redundant in any way, I apologize in advance. Furthermore, it was my own laziness in college and standardized testing ineptitude that led to me going to a T4 prior to transferring.

Don't you see the inherent hypocrisy in AA? It's like saying "We want to be treated equally, except when it benefits us." I think there is a need to promote diversity in the field of law and I think AA is the government's patchwork attempt at the process. Personally, I think a more economic-based system woudl be appropriate, but I'm not even going to begin to suggest how to implement such a system.

My original T4 school has had a problem with maintaining minority enrollment to the point where they considered imposing a different curve for minority students. In my section of 90 students, there were 9 minority students. 5 dropped out after the first semester, and 2 more followed in the Spring. I've heard these seven individuals participate in class and couldn't comprehend basic legal concepts, or answer questions in class. The school, knowing that the minority dropout rate is staggering, continues to profit from kids who should not be going to law school to begin with. Now, these students are stuck paying back an additional $30K and are in a worse position than when they entered.

My dad is a prosecutor and his boss is an African-American woman who attended Rutgers-Newark. On her application, she declined to indicate her race because she was insulted by the idea that her skin color alone should give her a boost in the applications process. She was ultimately accepted to Rutgers, but once the admissions dept found out that she was black, they threatened to withdraw the acceptance unless she checked off the "African-American" box on her application. She reluctantly did so because Rutgers was far more affordable than her other options. She went from being considered a "catch" to being considered a "quota fulfillment."

I'll ask the OP this. You need life saving surgery, where even the slightest slip-up in the surgical process means the end of your life. You have two potential surgeons, one is white, the other is black. You've met neither, know nothing about their educational or practical backgrounds. With no other information, which one would you choose to perform that surgery?

Funny question. I'd choose the black physician :).

I'd probably end up dying either way. What kind of a bad hospital doesn't have Indian or Asian surgeons?

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #647 on: June 22, 2008, 04:26:17 PM »
my 2 cents.. I grew up in a lower middle class/upper lower class neighborhood that was a mix of whites, blacks, and hispanics (mostly mexicans).. All our lives were equally, but not overly, difficult, and there was not alot of racism at that time because my city has been in a depression for like 20 years and we were all just equally putting our foot to the grindstone and trying to make a buck, our parents, i mean... I grew up playing sports, and competing, and found out I was pretty good at football.. I played all through high school, starring for my team, and making all state.. I was never unbelievably good, like d1 material, but I was head and shoulders better than alot of the competition.. When my senior year came, I was getting recruited by full scholarship 1AA programs and partial scholarship D2 programs..Two or three of the 1AA programs were showing good interest, and I felt fairly confident that I would a scholarship.. When it came down to it, I was getting offered one of the final spots to Colgate's incoming team, with a great financial aid package.. At the last second, the coaches kind of cooled off, saying they decided they wanted someone else for my position, a kid from the south who played the same position, because, "they wanted some southern speed".. I understood, and moved on, but one of my friends went there and was playing ball for the team, and called me like 2 weeks later, asking why I didn't get offered.. I told him, and he explained to me that he had seen the depth chart in the football office for the recruits, and that they had it down to me and another kid with an obviously african american name, and that I actually was faster than him in the 40 yard dash by a tenth (a big deal in football)..

If they chose another kid, who was black, and said speed was the issue, which was a lie, couldn't I argue I lost my spot because I was white and black people are perceived to be better at sports?

This is only one possible explanation. Perhaps they didn't like my personality, perhaps my grades hurt me. I don't know. But I can make the argument. Just like 20 years ago, when a black person wouldn't get a job and would say he didn't get it because he was black. That is the same situation.

Growing up in a lower class area, with no advantages to being white, couldn't I argue that being white instead of black has cost me a lot of money so far in my life?

Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #648 on: June 22, 2008, 05:18:42 PM »
Growing up in a lower class area, with no advantages to being white, couldn't I argue that being white instead of black has cost me a lot of money so far in my life?

I recommend a week up a mounting, introspecting.  Honestly.

Freak

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Re: Be honest WASPs: why does AA really bother you?
« Reply #649 on: June 23, 2008, 07:13:18 AM »
Growing up in a lower class area, with no advantages to being white, couldn't I argue that being white instead of black has cost me a lot of money so far in my life?

I recommend a week up a mounting mountain, introspecting.  Honestly.

Because otherwise you sentence has very strange implications.