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Messages - th0409

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If more of the URMs parents would raise there people better we would not have to hear about this "socioeconomic" epidemic. 

Speaks volumes.

I would hope if one were going to make a blanket statement and a broad generalization about a group of people, and that statement was going to contain blatant stupidity said statement could at least use proper grammar.

The word you're looking for txn_20 is "their" not "there", and from this once could conclude that your poor grammatical performance is a result of your poor upbringing.
But that would be a broad generalization and that would be wrong. I'll assume you'll try to make excuses to why you are not clear on use of the English language, and why people should cut you some slack, but clearly you are a product of poor upbringing and therefore are not worthy of any consideration of your circumstances.

Visits, Admit Days, and Open Houses / Re: Best ADR/Negotiation Clinics
« on: February 09, 2009, 05:12:36 PM »

I know Northwestern has a negotiations course that is run jointly with the Law and Business school. And I believe their Dispute Resolution program is in the top 10. They may not call it Dispute Resolution either.
Some schools call it Mediation, Conflict Resolution, Arbitration or Negotiation.

Texas, Cornell and Columbia all have ADR program. I don't know where they place on a large scale ranking, but I would assume that these programs are quite reputable just based on the institution

US News has a specialty ranking section that ranks Dispute Resolution and they rank the top 10:
Harvard tied w/ Missouri-Columbia
Ohio State

Incoming 1Ls / Re: 1Ls Don't Seem Worried about Economy. Why?
« on: January 26, 2009, 05:57:02 PM »

At my school, nobody seems worried in the least, despite the fact that I've met a few 2Ls without offers.

Are there tensions I'm missing beneath the surface?  What about at your school?  Is the whole "stressing out about the economy" an online LSD/xoxo thing?  It doesn't seem material IRL.  People look at me strangely when I talk about the possibility of not getting BigLaw.

I think law students aren't worried about the economy for the same reason undergrads/grad students aren't worried. It's because our entire lives we've been taught that education brings opportunity. And the higher the degree the more opportunity. Of course students at top law programs have been programmed to be immune from such silly concepts as economic downturn and recession. It doesn't apply (lol)!

Granted, I think there may be some false sense of hope for some. Everyone is not going to get the 6-figure big law job or the job of their dreams whatever it may be. But also, the economy is every shifting and constantly changing. what holds true this year may not be true next year. people freak out because they've stopped giving new associates big bonuses--that's a reasonable cut back in order to keep the associates they have and to hire new one the next year.

The world will continue to revolve and law firms, non-for profits, public interest, big law will all continue to need lawyers. There will be jobs so there's no reason to panic.
The question is will you take the job?

My question: will my age prevent me from landing BigLaw and thus make the extra $60K of debt for Fordham a big waste?  If not, at what level of debt does R-Nwk (or BLS) make sense? 

I'll answer this one portion of the question.
Your age will not be a discriminator for hiring you. If you're thinking in terms of why an employer would hire someone 20 years older than the average 1 year associate it is because of this.
1. You've already been in the working world and you understand what it takes to make a business work and how to pay your dues. A new associate out of UG/Law school will still have to be taught how to work in the real world (for the most part)
2. Most new associates are going to try and ping around from office to office and not be too concerned with setting down roots and working at 1 firm. Law Firms really do want someone that is in for the long haul. You are less likely to continue to uproot your family.
3. An employer knows that because of your prior work history they won't have to hold your hand when it comes to leadership and taking the initiative. Which means that clients won't have to pay to teach you how to be a grown up.
4. Because of the type of work you've done you should be a great team-player and be used to working in groups and working across the aisle for the purpose of getting the work done.

Don't ever let your age be something you have to explain or make excuses for let it be your benefit.

Some background:

28 yrs old, non-URM (Pacific Islander)
LSAT: 172
BA Political Science: 2.8 gpa
MPA: 3.6 gpa
US Navy Officer: 4 years
Volunteer research for the Center for Disease Control in California, volunteer search and rescue for Red Cross, EMT, tutor for enlisted personnel going to college.
My dream schools are CCN, Gtown, the UCs, Virginia, Stanford (yea right).  I'm also applying to Fordham, GW, a few others.

Should i retake the LSAT? Are any of the dream schools possible? Is there anything else I should do, maybe apply to more safeties?  Thanks for your help.

Seems everyone has forgotten about the OP
The bottom line is that if your GPA were higher this wouldn't be a question. Nobody would tell you not to apply to Yale or Harvard or Columbia. The reason everyone is telling you that is because based on some self-reported statistics/graphs and based on some outside research for the schools' admission TYPICALLY PEOPLE WITH YOUR GPA HAVE A HARD TIME GAINING ADMISSION. That means that you MAY OR MAY NOT have a difficult time gaining admission to one of these schools. Or any school for that matter. That doesn't mean it's impossible. The deans of law schools are not on this board replying to your post it's just other prospective students giving your what they believe to be their honest assessment of your application.

What people don't know is what you did for 4 year. If you were an F-14 pilot or nuclear engineer for 4 year I assure you that UG GPA won't mean much. If you got that GPA from the Naval Academy I assure you they won't look down upon it. It is commonly known that service academies have the most stringent standards in terms of grading and academics of any schools in the nation. They don't grade inflate and the required curricula in addition to the required extra-curricular activities almost guarantee that you won't be walking out with a 4.0.

So the factors behind your GPA (which you don't have to explain here, but I would definitely make sure adcomms know if there's something more to your low GPA) are going to make a difference in your admissions.

If you can afford it I would say apply to as many schools in the top 20 as you can. There's no reason any school would not give you strong consideration to be a candidate. even if HYS or Columbia deny you it may have very little to do with your GPA and more to do with the fact that they have to reject somebody!!

Northwestern is known for requiring work experience. But their idea of work experience is 1-2 years of post-graduate work experience. I assure you the average age of the entering student is still in the low-mid 20's. That being said, you will proabably find a lot more students there but there won't be a room full of career-changers.

Princeton Review typically ranks law schools in all sorts of areas. These are the schools they say are most welcoming of older students. They base this on the average age of students, and how long most of them have been out of college.

City University of New York-Queens(NY)
University of Hawaii-Manoa(HI)
Lewis and Clark (OR)
Univ. of San Fransisco (CA)
Univ. of Arizona
Northwestern (IL)
University of Maine
Seattle University
University of New Mexico
University of DC

Personally, I would say no.
The reason is because being out of undergrad for a couple of years doen't really count. Most of the students that are applying to law school straight from undergrad are going to be 23-24ish, so you're not necessarily much older. You are slightly older than the average applicant but not really.
But your age alone is not why I would say no.
Non-trad generally refers to someone that is leaving a career and coming back to school to change careers. So if you took a year or two off t work or do Peace Corps or TFA then you'll find yourself in the company of many that have done the same thing. Which makes you kind of "traditional" in that respect.

But a typical Non-trad student is one that is using law school to either completely change their current profession or further their current profession. Typically they will have been out of undergrad for closer to 10 years (giving them enough to have been in an established career), they may have a family with children in school, own a home, and have been completely independent of their parents and parental support for things like school and bills for quite some time.

A traditional law school applicant will most likely have tried to get some work experience under his/her belt so a couple of years of trying to beef up your resume simply for the purposes of applying to law school will not make you so different.
Just my opinion. There's no parameters for being non-traditional.

Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students / Re: for us older folk...
« on: August 24, 2008, 07:42:42 PM »

I think you answered your own question. The biggest obstacle is going to be the exact same as the one you currently have. How do you balance you life, family, finances with the increasing demands of law school. I'm sure you're aware the first year will probably be the toughest academically, but the time committment never gets easier.

The LSDAS application is the law school's own. In most cases law schools require you to fill out your application and send all of your information via LSAC. Some schools have a higher application fee for sending them a paper copy instead of the electronic version. And many schools prefer the online version because it helps to ensure that all of your information arrives at the proper place and faster than snail mail.

Law School Admissions / Re: Multiple ED Applications?
« on: August 23, 2008, 09:59:52 PM »
Just to throw some specifics your way Univ.of Chicago and Penn have a "binding" early decision application. On the last page of the applications you sign a statement saying that you will not be an early decision applicant at any other school. I would assume this is referring to a program in which you are signing another binding contract for early decision, and not an application in which you are applying early in the process.

There are school that ask you to specify if you are applying to the ED. Obviously if you don't get your application in by the ED deadline (which is usually between Sept and Dec; with some schools giving admittance by December) then you are not going to be an ED candidate no matter what.

All binding admissions apps require that you accept the admissions offfer, withdraw all other applications, and cease from submitting any other applications. Schools with this process usually assume they are your number one choice and gaining admissions to their program would mean you no longer require admission at any other school.

If a school has a non-binding ED application then you can apply to that program and any other program that is not binding.

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