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General Off-Topic Board / Re: obama! clinton!
« on: February 06, 2008, 05:34:26 PM »
Obama will take a woman but it won't be Clinton... I'm thinking either a Kansas or Missouri woman, both are big supporters, and make sense for him. The only vote he isn't getting is women, but he can't take on the Clinton baggage because that wouldn't go along with the campaign he is running. Clinton is not something new, or a change.

Clinton would be deadly stupid to think of anyone before at least offering VP to Obama. With him behind her she would win, but without him it becomes a race.

On a side note.. i'm not sure how anyone could watch both of their speeches last night and choose Clinton. She can not deliver a speech, and has to read little details of every speech. You would think her husband would give her some tips on this.

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I would not attend it for law school though, I know a couple of people who attended law school and could not find a job.

That doesn't sound very good :-[. How would you say SIU compares to NIU College of Law (since NIU is 60 miles west of Chicago)?

I think you're better off at JMLS.  That assumes all else being equal, but going to school in the Loop allows for you to clerk during school, which should help with the job thing.


This is not true at all. Anyone who actively seeks employment and networks from SIU will get a job. SIU is considered well above NIU and JMLS. Anywhere but Chicago considers SIU ahead of Loyola as well. It is a very good school in a crappy location. If you want to practice in a smaller town, or in St. Louis then it is the school for you.

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Iím planning on applying to this law school since Iím instate (go to school at SIUE) and tuition is cheap, can anyone give me some information about this school? How is the employment after graduation? Do graduates go on to work throughout the state (Chicago for example)? How is the environment?

Thanks!



I am currently going to SIU as a 1L. The school is very small, and Carbondale is not that big of a town. There is a ton of retail between Carbondale and Marion though. However, if you don't have a family and do not like to drink there is really nothing to do unless you go to St. Louis.
However, the school is terrific. The tuition is extremely cheap, and they give a lot of full rides to military people that are originally from Illinois (as does the UofI and NIU). Those are the reasons that the law school does not look as pretty as some other ones. The administration is really moving the school in the right direction though. The dean is great, and really is trying to get students to get on employment early in their career because SIU, being located where it is, has a tendency to be laid-back and waits on finding a job until the last minute. The deal has openly talked about trying to increase the ranking so that the students will have more employment opportunities.
The opportunities for employment is anywhere in Illinois, including Chicago, but hardly any Chicago firms come for OCI. Students who seek employment in Chicago, if they are high ranked in the class, tend to get it. The firms in Chicago like SIU grads, but they don't like coming down to get them when they have so many other schools close by. SIU places very well in St. Louis, and pretty good in smaller towns in Missouri, and even to a smaller extent into Indianapolis.
The environment of the school is pretty laid-back and social. It is a small school so it can feel like high school if you get involved in the social scene with everyone. Everyone is friendly though, and there is not a ton of competition. We have a ping-pong table to kill time when you aren't studying. That's how laid-back of an atmosphere it is. If you are lucky enough to get in the right section SIU has one of the best Contract professors in the country. The rest of the professors are not bad either, but he is amazing. The school is improving their writing program and career ethics program every year, and continues to receive national recognition. If there is anything else that you want to know just say the word.

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I am at a Tier 3 right now with a 150 LSAT and an Undergraduate degree from an online school. It is not a for-profit school (U of Phoenix), but it got me into Law School. I am confident that I could have gotten into a top 25 school if I would have nailed the LSAT. The school does not mean much unless you are on the border. If you kill the LSAT and have a good GPA then that is all that matters for Law School Stats that they have to report. If anything it will show that they are more of a diversified school and the adcoms will like that even more. Do not let anyone tell you you can't get into law school just because you had other commitments that made you go to school online, or that you just realized you learn better that way. Many studies have shown that online study is just as good, and some have shown that it is better, at actually teaching the material to students. Law schools will not care in a general sense. Shoot for the moon, and everywhere in between just in case.

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Financial Aid / Re: Student Budget
« on: July 21, 2007, 10:29:46 AM »
There is only so much a school can do for you.  You can do what you want, but I don't know that I would necessarily mortgage your future even more because of child-care issues.  If money is going to be that much of a problem, it might be a better idea to go to school part-time while you continue to work.  You could even take a couple of years, work 2 or 3 jobs, and save money so you will have some extra to supplement what you can get in loans. 


I was just complaining that my school does not allow married students, or students with kids, to take out even $1000 more than the single ones. I would much rather go to my eyeballs in debt and actually see my kids growing up than the reverse.

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Financial Aid / Re: Student Budget
« on: July 20, 2007, 03:11:05 PM »
Nope. We both feel it is better for the kids for her to be home to take care of them. Not to mention all the money she could bring in would barely cover child care. I can't believe how low-balled we are from the schools. You would think they would do a little research about living expenses in the area of the school.

I'm not so sure that the school low-balled the cost of living.  The school is looking at the cost of living in terms of one person, not four.  If you can find an apartment for you, your wife, and two kids for $600/month, then the cost for one person to find an apartment (probably estimated at a studio size or at sharing a multi-bedroom apartment with others) is probably less.  The cost of living for one person is also going to be less than for four people.  Also, the school is not looking at your cost of living for 12 months, it is looking at your cost of living for 8-9 months (because those are the months of the year that you are in school).

Not that it really matters, because you need to figure out a way to manage.

I would suggest looking into the additional loans mentioned, but also look into assistance programs in the area.  You may be able to find subsidized housing, and you may qualify for welfare, low-cost health insurance, or food stamps.  I know that you probably do not want to seek government assistance, but it may just help.

Perhaps your wife could get a part-time job (on weekends when you would be home) or she could work from home.  Even a little additional income will help (particularly if you do not need childcare during those times).

Also, you can put your book costs onto a credit card and make minimum payments while you are in law school (rather than the roughly $1000/year towards books).  Check with your friends and family to see if there is anyone in the area that you are moving to that someone knows and might be able to help with childcare or housing.  Talk to your school, see if they have any recommendations, also talk to the public hospital in the area (they can hook you up with those resources).
 
Lots of luck!


Wow these are great suggestions, thanks. I think I was just letting off steam and did not expect someone on these boards to be so understanding and informative at the same time.

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Financial Aid / Re: Student Budget
« on: July 20, 2007, 02:11:09 PM »
So my school has an out of state student budget of $41,000 and tuition and fees (not including books) is $29,000. How on earth do I live with a wife and two kids on $12,000 when I have to pay for books and Misc. expenses and the cheapest apartment I can find is $600 a month? There has to be a way to get around the school's budget. Anyone know a lender that does this that isn't through the roof in interest rates?

is your wife not working?


Nope. We both feel it is better for the kids for her to be home to take care of them. Not to mention all the money she could bring in would barely cover child care. I can't believe how low-balled we are from the schools. You would think they would do a little research about living expenses in the area of the school.

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Financial Aid / Student Budget
« on: July 19, 2007, 07:27:35 PM »
So my school has an out of state student budget of $41,000 and tuition and fees (not including books) is $29,000. How on earth do I live with a wife and two kids on $12,000 when I have to pay for books and Misc. expenses and the cheapest apartment I can find is $600 a month? There has to be a way to get around the school's budget. Anyone know a lender that does this that isn't through the roof in interest rates?

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: Need Advice for Fall
« on: June 18, 2007, 07:38:01 AM »
Why don't you either get an MBA or Masters in Law, or just get a JD online? If you never want to practice law then an executive JD online should suit you just fine, and it is thousands of dollars cheaper. Of course if you think you MIGHT want to practice then I wouldn't do that.

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Choosing the Right Law School / Re: deposit... or try again?
« on: June 16, 2007, 07:12:28 AM »
You should have tried your best in the first place. Waiting a year is just putting off your life and showing a real immaturity. You should not apply to a Law School that you would not go to. Once you get to Law School you won't get a mulligan on your exams so what will you do then? Drop out and go to business school?


^^^ Why are you such a jerk? Just wondering...


Anywho...if everything the OP posted about their undergrad experience is any indication, its not that he/she is not a hard worker and didnt try very hard. A LOT of people never score as high as 161.

That being said, don't go if you have huge doubts or "what ifs" in your head. Like someone mentioned...law school isnt cheap. Its an expensive  investment. Would you investment in something that you were not psyched about or not sure about? You're one year out of undergrad, another year won't kill you and if you want to better your chances and think that you can do so, go for it. This is a big decision, one that shouldn't be made lightly or entered into with doubt.



Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk, just a realist. Most people do not do significantly better on the LSAT. If Law School was that important to you then chances are that you tried really hard the first time and just are not going to get enough points the next time that will justify sitting a year out. If you are having doubts when you have an acceptance in hand then either you are selfish or you are not sure you want to go to Law School at all. If BIGLAW is your goal then chances are you need a better LSAT to make it a guarantee, but do not get caught up in the rankings game. If you want to go to Law School and got into a school in a place where you want to live (not sure why you are applying to schools in areas you wouldn't live) then go for it. If not then go to business school or something else that you actually feel sure about. Remember over 30,000 people do not get into Law School when they apply each year. That is no school at all. If you got in to more than one then you should not be so stuck up to think that they are not good enough for you. It just tells me you are not sure that you want to be a lawyer, which is better then saying you have to get into a better school. Don't be stuck up like the people that go to Columbia.  ;D

Since when does calling people selfish, immature, and stuck up constitute being a realist. It sounds to me like you're disapointed with your own choices but have decided not to wait a year and are trying to justify it to yourself. Plenty of people can go from a 161 to 170+, especially with a year to study. And given that there are a lot of schools out there just looking to take your money and leave you with no real job prospects (not that I'm saying the schools above are like that) then I think it's perfectly acceptable to look out for yourself. That's not being selfish, that's being realistic.



I am actually VERY happy with where I am going to school. It is everything I could hope for. I am not calling anyone those things. I am saying people who think the way that some of you are implying are those things. What are you going to do in school or your job when you just did not give the amount of effort that was needed because you were not so sure it needed that much effort? The Law does not work that way and the Legal profession is being dragged down by people who just want to make as much money as possible and thus think in the manner you are suggesting. The legal profession is not about looking out for yourself, it is about looking out for other people. All law schools have job prospects. It is up to the student to get those prospects in most schools though. If you are the type of person that does not try their hardest in most situations the first time around then you will be one of the ones without a job when you graduate.

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