Law School Discussion

Specific Groups => Minority and Non-Traditional Law Students => Topic started by: ->Soon on October 12, 2006, 11:32:50 AM

Title: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ->Soon on October 12, 2006, 11:32:50 AM
Who is the minority then?

What about a place like LA or Miami or San Antone.

in a place majority hispanic, are whites the minority?

these things will be relevant in the coming years...
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: jd2bee on October 12, 2006, 11:37:07 AM
Who is the minority then?

What about a place like LA or Miami or San Antone.

in a place majority hispanic, are whites the minority?

these things will be relevant in the coming years...

I think there's a difference between numerical minority/majority and power minority/majority.  For example, in San Diego someday the white population may numerically no longer be a majority (may even be the case now, not sure).  But whites hold more power (economic, social, political) than any other ethnic group, and certainly a majority.  So, little changes.  Also, non-white groups will still be underrepresented minorities in many industries because although they are represented in larger American culture, they are underrepresented in many middle- and upper-class industries and circles
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ->Soon on October 12, 2006, 11:40:22 AM
then it will be a matter of symantecs, and they will need to change the term
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: jd2bee on October 12, 2006, 11:42:47 AM
then it will be a matter of symantecs, and they will need to change the term

Which part will be a matter of semantics?
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ->Soon on October 12, 2006, 11:55:45 AM
thwe term minority.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: prolesurge on October 12, 2006, 11:57:28 AM
Who is the minority then?

What about a place like LA or Miami or San Antone.

in a place majority hispanic, are whites the minority?

these things will be relevant in the coming years...

I think there's a difference between numerical minority/majority and power minority/majority.  For example, in San Diego someday the white population may numerically no longer be a majority (may even be the case now, not sure).  But whites hold more power (economic, social, political) than any other ethnic group, and certainly a majority.  So, little changes.  Also, non-white groups will still be underrepresented minorities in many industries because although they are represented in larger American culture, they are underrepresented in many middle- and upper-class industries and circles

Awesome analysis. Great job jd2bee.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ->Soon on October 12, 2006, 01:22:41 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20061010/ts_csm/apopfive_1
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: jd2bee on October 12, 2006, 01:32:22 PM
thwe term minority.


I think that's why, generally, people prefer to not use the term "minority" to talk about any group that is underprivileged.  For example, in the neighborhood I grew up for high school, whites were the minority.  I didn't talk about minority populations but rather used words such as underrepresented, disenfranchised, or underprivileged.  The stress shouldn't be on numbers but on the power held by that group.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: jd2bee on October 12, 2006, 01:34:13 PM
Who is the minority then?

What about a place like LA or Miami or San Antone.

in a place majority hispanic, are whites the minority?

these things will be relevant in the coming years...

I think there's a difference between numerical minority/majority and power minority/majority.  For example, in San Diego someday the white population may numerically no longer be a majority (may even be the case now, not sure).  But whites hold more power (economic, social, political) than any other ethnic group, and certainly a majority.  So, little changes.  Also, non-white groups will still be underrepresented minorities in many industries because although they are represented in larger American culture, they are underrepresented in many middle- and upper-class industries and circles

Awesome analysis. Great job jd2bee.

Thanks!  I knew those Ethnic Studies and Sociology degrees would come in handy one day!
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: lindseyl on October 12, 2006, 02:10:02 PM
I disagree about the whole white people will still have more power. In cities like San Antonio where Hispanics are the majority, the majority of the power is held by Hispanics. Look at their businesses, their politics, etc.  ???
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: jd2bee on October 12, 2006, 02:40:22 PM
I disagree about the whole white people will still have more power. In cities like San Antonio where Hispanics are the majority, the majority of the power is held by Hispanics. Look at their businesses, their politics, etc.  ???

Do you know the statistics on the business ownership in San Antonio?  Do you know the stats of how much money those businesses bring in?  CEOs who are Latino/Hispanic as opposed to white or another race in San Antonio?  School board, local politics, etc.?  Not saying it's not possible, just that perhaps the perception of the power of Latinos/Hispanics is greater than the reality.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: abita on October 13, 2006, 11:55:40 AM
The Mayor of San Antonio is Phil Hrdberger, i'm pretty sure he's not hispanic but i could be wrong. And by the way he won the race against someone that was definately hispanic.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: another week, by popular on October 13, 2006, 12:03:43 PM
Who is the minority then?

whites will retain majority status.  the definition of majority will just change from "majority of population" to "owns majority of assets". 
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: lindseyl on October 13, 2006, 12:20:35 PM
I disagree about the whole white people will still have more power. In cities like San Antonio where Hispanics are the majority, the majority of the power is held by Hispanics. Look at their businesses, their politics, etc.  ???

Do you know the statistics on the business ownership in San Antonio?  Do you know the stats of how much money those businesses bring in?  CEOs who are Latino/Hispanic as opposed to white or another race in San Antonio?  School board, local politics, etc.?  Not saying it's not possible, just that perhaps the perception of the power of Latinos/Hispanics is greater than the reality.

Just a few examples:

Link to the City Council: http://www.sanantonio.gov/council/

Link to Sherrif's Department: http://www.co.bexar.tx.us/BCsheriff/administration.htm

Link to San Antonio School District Board: http://www.saisd.net/Redesigned/Board/board_members.shtm

Hispanic business growth: http://www.census.gov/apsd/www/statbrief/sb96_04.pdf

General Information:
http://www.hispaniconline.com/magazine/2004/jul_aug/Features/top10-1.html
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: _BP_ on October 13, 2006, 01:20:23 PM
I found this.  I just thought it was difficult to believe that the fact that hispanics are the majority in San Antonio says anything about who actually has the base of power in the city.  Scroll through the list and you'll be hard pressed to find even two hispanics.

San Antonio Politics: Who controls San Antonio? A beginner's search
http://bakirita.blogs.com/my_weblog/san_antonio_texas/index.html

There's a network of super-rich, superpowerful people, not all of whom are developers, but many of whom benefit greatly from ruthless development.They  include construction people, engineers, oil people, and financial people, lawyers and publicists and people in the media.


Charlie Amato -- Founder, Chairman of the Board SWB Corporation, insurance, mortgages and "investment solutions". Founder of Businessmen's Hall of Fame.

Ernesto Ancira, Jr. -- Huge car business and links with energy resources here and in Mexico, among other things.  Also treasurer of Schubert's campaign.
Hope Andrade -- Vice Chair, OptimaCare, a home health company.  Commissioner, Texas Highway Commission (think toll roads).
Sam Barshop -- Barshop and Oles, developer of luxury shopping centers, etc. including over the aquifer and founder of the La Quinta Inns motel chain (which I have to say we frequent because they always allow pets).  Recently he and wife Ann donated big bucks for UTHSC's Sam and Ann Barshop Center for the Study of Longevity and Aging, interestingly enough opened at the Texas Research Park on the west side of San Antonio, a park which recently had been losing tenants, not gaining them.
Bob Coleman -- Founder and Chair, Texace, a company that manufactures hats.  But don't be fooled.  This guy's company lists as its partners Troon Golf, an organization which "creates extraordinary experiences at the greatest golf properties in the world...Golf's first and foremost luxury brand" and St. Andrews Links Trust, the ultimate fancy golf club in Scotland where, incidentally, Tom DeLay just had a vacation at Jack Abramoff's expense.  I'm not suggesting a link (excuse the pun). I think this guy really likes rubbing elbows with the very rich and famous.

Gene Dawson, Jr. and Sam Dawson -- Owners, Pape-Dawson Engineers, "the largest locally owned engineering and surveing company in San Antonio."  Projects include Valero Corporate Headquarters, SBC Center, Rogers Ranch and The Dominion, La Cantera, Retama Park and the Hyatt Hill Country Resourt, The Quarry at Lincoln Heights, and another bunch of quarries, not so pretty, owned by Martin Marietta Materials; surveying Project Starbright which is the Toyota site and various highway projects. They build in the Hill Country and over The Aquifer
Trish DeBerry -- Partner, Guerra, DeBerry, Coody: Marketing and Communications.  Political campaigns have included work for Bush/Cheney in 2000, the National Republican Party, National Republican Senatorial Committee, Jeb Bush for Governor campaign, Rick Perry for Governor Campaign, and the Henry Bonilla Campaign, these campaigns with a general emphasis on Hispanic voters.  Also has worked on PR for No Child Left Behind and the White House Initiative on Education.  The firm has done "crisis" work for Lumbermens/Professional Golfers Association as well -- Think PGA Village.
Walter Embrey -- President, Embrey Properties, Ltd, a national development company specializing in commercial and multi-family ventures including the Isom Trade Center where buddies have offices, and other projects including over the Aquifer.
Tom Frost is Frost Bank.
Bill Greehey -- Bill Greehey is Valero, one of the hundred best companies to work in in the U.S.  It also is number 55 of the Fortune 500.  If corporations have to exist, this is one that should exist.  It has worked very effectively to develop technologies that reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gas emissions and is open in reporting aspects of cost and technology concerning greenhouse gases, all the way down to the consumer.  It's a company that receives a Triple A rating in inclusion of Hispanics on the Board and in high positions according to a 2001 La Prensa San Diego article.  This in a world in which 854 of Fortune's top 1000 companies have no Hispanics on Boards or in executive positions and in which 20 entire industries including health care, sporting goods, food and grocery wholesalers and securities firms don't.  It also participates very actively and generously in charitable giving in San Antonio.  Charitable giving is an iffy area for corporations, and Valero is a master at combining fun and commerce with charity in its participation in San Antonio PGA Tour events, but it gives widely and to a diverse group of organizations.  Valero doesn't need to support Republican Right candidates.  IF it does.

Jack Guenther -- If I'm right, Jack Guenther is a member of Guenther and Son, Inc., family.  Guenther and Son is  the Pioneer flour company which now owns several brands and distributes frozen products as well as flour and the like.  Jack seems to serve on many Boards among arts and charities organizations.
Gordan Hartman is a developer who builds lots of homes over the Aquifer.
Jim Hasslocher -- Frontier Enterprises/Jim's Restaurants.  Hasslocher's company had run the Tower Restaurant in Hemisphere Park since it opened and lost the contract to Landry's a year or so ago. The restaurant wasn't very good and wasn't really making anywhere near the most of the opportunities the Tower presents.

.Tim Hixon -- Hixon Properties.  But not your typical developer.  He is a memeber of the Downtown Alliance and active on The Riverwalk.  His business interests appear to be focused on the center of the city.  If anything, he is a protector of the Aquifer, at least as far as I can tell.  He has been called the champion of Government Canyon Park, a new park over the Aquifer.  He is an ardent conservationist and a member of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission.  He fishes and has hunted.  All you liberals out there who've never lived away from a city, this is okay as long as you're not hanging out with a bunch of drunks and shooting animals with automatic weapons or from the comforts of home or not giving them a chance by shooting from a car in a private game reserve or from the comforts of home over an internet connection or something like that.  A lot of true hunters have a real understanding and appreciation of wilderness.
Peter Holt -- The San Antonio Spurs, of course, are Peter Holt's baby.  He can afford this baby because he is the owner of Holt Enterprises, the nations largest CATERPILLAR dealership, and one of the largest dealerships in the world.  He is the fourth generation of CAT dealers, his grandfather, Benjamin, having developed the first CAT.  CATs I'm sure you know are useful in big construction.
Ed Kelley -- President and CEO of USAA Real Estate Co.  He is also (or has been) the chairman of the San Antonio Economic Development Foundation, a private organization whose purpose is to attract new business to San Antonio.   I learned some interesting things at the SA  Economic Development Foundation's website.  Most of us I think are aware that the service industry is San Antonio's biggest source of employment hiring 32% of workers. Trade is second with 24% and government is third with 20%.  Did you know that construction only accounts for 6% of employment and finance, real estate and insurance combined only account for 7%? These last industries are responsible for much concentrated wealth in our area. Unemployment has been creeping up since 1999 whenit was 3.9%.  I believe today it is in the area of 5.6%. You might also be interested to know that the EDF is promoting the fact that we have low density housing as an advanatage to living here.  Translate that to urban sprawl.  Also it is advertising the fact that McMansions are cheap here.  Read development, urban sprawl, resource guzzling.  Yet, they advertise that we have wonderful clean air, without mentioning that it is increasingly threatened by the urban sprawl they are promoting.  As is our water.
Cyndi Krier -- One of the more strident members of this group.  She is a professional go getter for herself and has benefitted from the support of extreme right organizations including Texans for Governmental Integrity, founded by Dr. James Leininger, a somewhat shadowy extremist with lots of money.  She has been a state senator, a Bexar County judge and a USAA lobbyist.  She is currently on the UT Board of Regents where she will serve until 2007.  The UT Board of Regents is an interesting group to look into.  Krier also is a member of the Philosophical Society of Texas, It's kind of fun to look this site over.  It doesn't appear to be extreme, but rather genteel in its approach to Texas history and issues.
Lowry Mays -- The Chairman of the Board of the (in)famous Clear Channel Communications.  He's a member of the San Antonio Economic Development Foundation.
Joe C. McKinney -- Vice Chairman of the Board, Broadway Bank; Retired chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Chase Bank, San Antonio Region.  Is (or has been) chairman of the San Antonio Economic Development Foundation.
Forrest Millar -- President of SBC External Affairs and Planning Group.  Is he a stand-in for Ed and Linda Whitacre?  Don't know much more about him.
Sam Millsap -- Attorney, former Bexar County District Attorney, specializes currently in health law and employment law.  It's possible he has, at times, actually been one of those nasty trial lawyers that Bush so dislikes.  In 1985, he won "The Good Guy Award" from the Texas Women's Political Caucus and the Mary K. Polk Leadership Award from the Texas Council on Family Violence.  Most recently, although an
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: _BP_ on October 13, 2006, 01:20:51 PM
cont'd

advocate of the death penalty,  he has spoken out in favor of a moratorium on the exercise of the death penalty in Texas saying, "Our system in Texas is broken.  Until it is fixed and we are satisfied that only the guilty can be put to death, there should be no more executions in Texas."
Palmer Moe -- Is currently the Managing Director of the Kronkosky Charitable Foundation in San Antonio.  He worked in the busines of energy for thirty five years including as President and Chief Operating Officer of Valero from 1983-1992.  Currentlyhe is on the Board of Whiting Petroleum of Denver.  The Kronkosky Foundation looms large in the life of San Antonio to which it devotes most of its many financial resources.  You might be interested to learn that its program areas include health and human services where it concerns itself with quality of life issues for the elderly and people with disabilities, with child abuse and neglect and with medical research; cultural efforts devoted to "meaningful activities" and the broadening of public participation and to improving and expaning public use of "information and learning" available in museums and public libraries; and expansion and improvement of public parks, zoos and wildlife sanctuaries, the prevention of cruelty to animals , and assistance to victims of "public disasters" in Texas.  The Kronkosky Foundation gave a lot of money for the development of Government Canyon Park.
John Peveto -- Founder of a very lucrative nation-wide chain of brake repair shops called Brake Check.  It seems like he has a real sense of fun:  he is a member of Los Compadres, a Harley motorcycling club and Cigar Solamente, a cigar aficionado's club which does in some magical way obtain the occasional Cuban cigar.
Gene Powell -- Bitterblue, Inc, a development corporation.  It also seems to include a little oil company.  Cute.  Powell was a 2004 Bush pioneer and his wife contributed $5000 to the Bush Florida recount effort. He is also one of the biggest contributor to Susan Combs, the strongest advocate for Texas HB 2833 which seeks to define "any combination of city actions limiting impervious cover [over the aquifer] to 45% as a "taking" for which the landowner must be fully compensated.  (See aquifer alert on this blog)  He is a prime developer of land over the aquifer.  His most recent over-the-aquifer project is a development south of 1604 and between Lockhill-Selma and Salado Creek where he is building 1250 homes and some commercial on 716 acres. He was recently in the news when with his partner Denton Communities he volunteered that by mistake he had thinned cedar trees on a tract near the proposed PGA Village, a tract which was endangered species habitat.  He set aside some other acreage for the birds.  Powell makes some token efforts to give money to conservationists and liberals.  He has donated 500 dollars to the Bexar County Land Trust and 500 dollars to Patti Radle's campaign for City Council.  Patti is a social activist and in my mind the only really, really honest with herself as well as the rest of us councilperson..
Carl Raba -- Doctor Carl Raba (BS;MS; PhD Engineering, Texas A&M) -- is the chairman and CEO of Raba-Kistner Consultants.  He and his wife who is retired chair and CEO are the only folks I know of on this list who have a school named after them:  Dr Carl and Bunny Jean Raba Elementary School, "Home of the Rattlers", located on Raba Drive in  the Northside Independent School District.  Raba-Kistner does consulting and testing in environmental, forensic and pavement, and it does geotechnical engineering.  It is precertified to do about a hundred things related to road construction for the Texas Department of Transportation.  Good things it's done: the handbook on managing lead-based paint in city housing where it was used before 1978; the leader in the area in using recycled materials, particularly concrete at Brooks City Base where it showed that it was not only environmentally sounder to do this but economically wiser.  Not so hot: City government still remembers that "Raba-Kistner had cost the pubalic taxpayer millions of dollars during their work on the Alamodome" and had a negative reputation for not doing an adequate job there.  Thus, they were not considered for work on the San Antonio River Improvement Project.
Edward Steves -- from an old, old San Antonio family.  His family's homestead is a major attraction on the San Antonio Conservation Society's list of historic homes to visit.  His wife is on the board of directors of said society.  His family's business initially was lumber, but today it is a manufacturer of thousands upon thousands of doors sold nationally and, the company hopes, soon internationally.
Tullos Wells -- Managing partner of the San Antonio area offices of the law firm Bracewell and Giuliani: yes, that Giuliani.  This is one of the largest law firms in the country.  Wells is Board Certified in labor and employment law and hospitality, sports and entertainment law.  He tends to defend against charges of discrimination, etc, and does it with great success.  He is interesting in part because he is Chairman of the Board of the Austin San Antonio Intermunicipal Commuter Rail District and he is a gung-ho advocate of commuter rail.  You can hear him talk about it at www.tpr.org by clicking on Texas Matters #139.    He says there's only so much concrete you can pour, and you simply can't pour enough to build roads to link San Antonio and Austin.  He's a colorful and detailed speaker.  With him at the helm of the board, I can't believe it won't work.  Interestingly, Sam Barshop and Carroll Schubert are on the board of the commuter rail district.
Marty Wender-- sounds like a mentsch, socially. He is a big time developer, responsible for the 3500 acre planned, mixed use development known as Westover Hills.  Among other things.  He seems particularly proud to have facilitated very fast the conversion of hiway 151 into a mini freeway that bisects the development.  He's listed as one of the top 100 developers
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: tzip on October 13, 2006, 01:46:23 PM
what you gentlemen are not taking into account is the huge wave of immigration of whites from europe that is likely to take place in the next 100 years. as the muslim community becomes more dominant and agitation grows as it has in the past 10 years, some natives will turn to right-wing parties, and others will just choose to leave for america, where this particular clash isn't common. that's just my guess though.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: lindseyl on October 13, 2006, 01:53:34 PM
BP...I don't really count that as a good source of information. It's a blog, full of opinions that have been spun to meet the opinion of the author. Probably wouldn't hold much validity in court.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ->Soon on October 13, 2006, 01:56:51 PM
BP...I don't really count that as a good source of information. It's a blog, full of opinions that have been spun to meet the opinion of the author. Probably wouldn't hold much validity in court.

WHAT?!?!?!

everyone knows blogs are 100% accurate and non-biased!
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: _BP_ on October 16, 2006, 10:08:25 AM
BP...I don't really count that as a good source of information. It's a blog, full of opinions that have been spun to meet the opinion of the author. Probably wouldn't hold much validity in court.

WHAT?!?!?!

everyone knows blogs are 100% accurate and non-biased!

EXACTLY! HAHA

But still, it seems tons more persuasive than listing the web page of the Sheriff's office and using that as evidence of the makeup of the power base in the city. 
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: lindseyl on October 16, 2006, 10:50:41 AM
BP...I don't really count that as a good source of information. It's a blog, full of opinions that have been spun to meet the opinion of the author. Probably wouldn't hold much validity in court.

WHAT?!?!?!

everyone knows blogs are 100% accurate and non-biased!

EXACTLY! HAHA

But still, it seems tons more persuasive than listing the web page of the Sheriff's office and using that as evidence of the makeup of the power base in the city. 

I gave those links because it answered the question given. They wanted information on the school board, plus city government, etc. I gave it. The blog wasn't persuasive to me because as soon as I figured out how opinionated it was, I quit reading it.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: _BP_ on October 16, 2006, 11:56:53 AM
BP...I don't really count that as a good source of information. It's a blog, full of opinions that have been spun to meet the opinion of the author. Probably wouldn't hold much validity in court.

WHAT?!?!?!

everyone knows blogs are 100% accurate and non-biased!

EXACTLY! HAHA

But still, it seems tons more persuasive than listing the web page of the Sheriff's office and using that as evidence of the makeup of the power base in the city. 

I gave those links because it answered the question given. They wanted information on the school board, plus city government, etc. I gave it. The blog wasn't persuasive to me because as soon as I figured out how opinionated it was, I quit reading it.

I see.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: FossilJ on October 18, 2006, 03:53:34 PM
Who is the minority then?

What about a place like LA or Miami or San Antone.

in a place majority hispanic, are whites the minority?

these things will be relevant in the coming years...


What, you mean like South Africa?


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Good one, Blue.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ->Soon on November 14, 2006, 07:03:47 AM
some interesting info.   http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/american_community_survey_acs/007748.html


 White Alone, Not Hispanic

    * The median age for non-Hispanic whites was 40.4 years.

    * Married-couple families comprised nearly 53 percent of non-Hispanic white households.* Additionally, 9 percent of households were maintained by a woman with no husband present and 28 percent in which the householder lived alone.*

    * About 2.4 million non-Hispanic white women between the ages of 15 and 50 gave birth in the year prior to the survey ó 78 percent of those were married.*

    * Nearly 6 percent of the non-Hispanic white household population age five years and over spoke a language other than English at home.

    * Among non-Hispanic whites age 25 and over, 89 percent were at least high school graduates and 30 percent had a bachelorís degree or higher.

     Black or African-American Alone

    * The median age for black or African-American was 31.3 years.*

    * Married-couple families comprised nearly 29 percent of black or African-American households. About 30 percent of households were maintained by a woman with no husband present and in 31 percent the householder lived alone.

    * About 600,000 black or African-American women between the ages of 15 and 50 gave birth in the year prior to the survey ó 35 percent of those were married.

    * About 7 percent of the black or African-American household population five years and over spoke a language other than English at home.

    * Among blacks or African-Americans ages 25 and over, 80 percent were at least high school graduates and 17 percent had a bachelorís degree or higher.

      American Indian and Alaska Native Alone

    * The median age for American Indian and Alaska Natives was 31.9 years.

    * Married-couple families comprised about 40 percent of American Indian and Alaska Native households. About 20 percent of households were maintained by a woman with no husband present and in 25 percent the householder lived alone.

    * About 44,000 American Indian and Alaska Native women between the ages of 15 and 50 gave birth in the year prior to the survey ó 48 percent of those were married.

    * About 26 percent of the American Indian and Alaska Native household population five years and over spoke a language other than English at home.

    * Among American Indian and Alaska Natives age 25 and over, 76 percent were at least high school graduates and about 14 percent had a bachelorís degree or higher.

      Asian Alone

    * The median age for Asians was 35.1 years.

    * Married-couple families comprised about 59 percent of Asian households. Among the Asian households, 9 percent were maintained by a woman with no husband present and 20 percent in which the householder lived alone.*

    * About 218,000 Asian women between the ages of 15 and 50 gave birth in the year prior to the survey ó 89 percent of those were married.

    * Nearly 76 percent of the Asian household population five years and over spoke a language other than English at home.

    * Among Asians age 25 and over, nearly 86 percent were at least high school graduates and 49 percent had a bachelorís degree or higher.

     (These tables can also be viewed for many ancestries within population groups, such as Japanese. Among Japanese age 25 and over, 93 percent were at least high school graduates and 44 percent had a bachelorís degree or higher.)

      Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander Alone

    * The median age for Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islanders was 30.6 years.*

    * Married-couple families comprised 50 percent of Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander households.* Among the Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander households, about 15 percent were maintained by a woman with no husband present and in 20 percent the householder lived alone.

    * About 7,000 Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander women between the ages of 15 and 50 gave birth in the year prior to the survey, 77 percent of whom were married.*

    * About 40 percent of the Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander household population five years and over spoke a language other than English at home.

    * Among Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islanders age 25 and over, 83 percent were at least high school graduates and 15 percent had a bachelorís degree or higher.

     Hispanic

    * The median age for Hispanics was 27.2 years.

    * Married-couple families comprised 49 percent of Hispanic households.* Among Hispanic households, 19 percent were maintained by a woman with no husband present and in about 16 percent the householder lived alone.

    * About 900,000 Hispanic women between the ages of 15 and 50 gave birth in the year prior to the survey, 66 percent of whom were married.

    * About 78 percent of the Hispanic household population five years and over spoke a language other than English at home.

    * About 60 percent of Hispanics ages 25 and over were at least high school graduates and 12 percent had a bachelorís degree or higher. Among Cubans age 25 and over, 73 percent were at least high school graduates and 24 percent had a bachelorís degree or higher.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: Einstein on November 14, 2006, 01:26:15 PM
Holdings of bachelor degrees

Asian: 49%
White: 30%
Cuban: 24%
African American: 17%
Native Hawaiian: 15%
Indian and Alaskan: 14%
Hispanic: 12%
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: prolesurge on November 14, 2006, 07:02:06 PM
Holdings of bachelor degrees

Asian: 49%
White: 30%
Cuban: 24%
African American: 17%
Native Hawaiian: 15%
Indian and Alaskan: 14%
Hispanic: 12%


Those are some depressing figures.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ->Soon on November 14, 2006, 07:48:25 PM
how so?
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: prolesurge on November 14, 2006, 08:20:28 PM
how so?

Well, looking at the percentage of minorities who have a bachelor's degree is depressing, especially when compared to the percentage of white and asian peoples with bachelor's degrees.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ((A))P on November 21, 2006, 12:53:12 PM
i find the whole minority/majority discourse to be skewed and i resent being considered a minority. For one people of African descent make up the majority of the population in the Western hemisphere.And the majority of the world is not white while white people control a disproportionate amount of wealth and resources. i prefer to associate myself with the majority of the non-white world and it is from within that context that i reject being labeled a so-called minority. Minority is also demeaning in the same sense that "Third World" is demeaning, it implies a sense of inferiority regardless if its intened to or not.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: tzip on November 21, 2006, 12:58:39 PM
huh? how does minority imply inferiority?
blacks, for example, are a minority in the U.S. even if they're a majority in other parts of the world. That's a physical fact, what's offensive about saying that?
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ((A))P on November 21, 2006, 01:30:31 PM
huh? how does minority imply inferiority?
blacks, for example, are a minority in the U.S. even if they're a majority in other parts of the world. That's a physical fact, what's offensive about saying that?

minor:
1. lesser, as in size, extent, or importance, or being or noting the lesser of two: a minor share. 
2. not serious, important, etc.: a minor wound; a minor role. 
3. having low rank, status, position, etc.: a minor official. 

regardless of whether it is offensive or not, or if it is intended to be purely statistical i was focusing on the implied meaning of minority. to label a people as minor implies a sense of unimportance or a sense of lower rank. within the boundries of the u.s. people of African descent are less than half of the population, this is a fact. My critique focuses less on the word minority as such but rather the whole discourse surronding it and the political act of placing a community of people within that discourse.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: tzip on November 21, 2006, 01:51:24 PM
so you're saying race shouldn't even be an issue in politics or elsewhere. I agree. But for race to stop being an issue, that is, for communities not be recognized as minorities by their race/ethnicity, those communities themselves need to reject that self definition. if anyone was to tell, for example, blacks, to stop identifying their community as unique by virtue of its ethnicity, that would be regarded as a racist request. However, as long as communities define themselves a by their race, they will be viewed by themselves and others as a minority.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ImVinny! on November 21, 2006, 01:58:56 PM
What would happen if we all just stopped thinking in terms of race? If people were just people? i think that if we stop asking what someone "is" we can move on from that mediocre assessment of personhood.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: tzip on November 21, 2006, 02:01:59 PM
amen to that! but realistically, that's never going to happen.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ImVinny! on November 21, 2006, 02:09:07 PM
But if we all keep thinking that then it never will. But if at least some people start the trend than maybe others will go along with it and we can soon be on our way to getting rid of the divisions that are caused by just checking little boxes (oversimplification i know, but yeah).
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ((A))P on November 21, 2006, 02:56:05 PM
so you're saying race shouldn't even be an issue in politics or elsewhere. I agree. But for race to stop being an issue, that is, for communities not be recognized as minorities by their race/ethnicity, those communities themselves need to reject that self definition. if anyone was to tell, for example, blacks, to stop identifying their community as unique by virtue of its ethnicity, that would be regarded as a racist request. However, as long as communities define themselves a by their race, they will be viewed by themselves and others as a minority.

You've completly misinterpreted me. up to this point i have not mentioned race, i was merely expressing that i dislike minority discourse. I would remind you that African peoples were not refered to as Black (or as N***** or any any other tasteless slur these are not names that were chossen they were forced on us by whites) until Europeans decided that they were white and assigned meaning to that socialy constructred category, simultaneously excluding non-europeans (most of the world) from that category. while i certainly accept the fact that race is a social construction i am also very aware of the social realities of race and racial oppression. when whiteness ceases to exist as a racial category then we can talk about doing away with race, but as long as white privilege and racial oppression continue then i will always hold on to my African identity as a source of resistance. In holding on to this identity i reject the label minority because i know that African people and People of Color as a whole are not in the minority.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ImVinny! on November 21, 2006, 03:00:15 PM
"white" should be done away with as well. it is inherenty racist.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: tzip on November 21, 2006, 03:28:32 PM
im honestly confused, not trying to start a fight. but if you identify your community as "african" or "of color," how can you resent that community being called a minority. i dont understand. as long as you distinguish a group by race, and as long as that group is less than 50%, it is a minority. if we abolish racial definitions, which ideally is a great idea, then you're right, use of minority would be offensive, but as long as groups identify themselves as groups of racial identity, they force others to treat them by that very same definition. in other words, the only difference between the word "african" which you use, and the word "black" which others use is simply that you personally find one offensive and the other not, while both are considered in the main stream to be synonymous.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ImVinny! on November 21, 2006, 03:40:23 PM
im honestly confused, not trying to start a fight. but if you identify your community as "african" or "of color," how can you resent that community being called a minority. i dont understand. as long as you distinguish a group by race, and as long as that group is less than 50%, it is a minority. if we abolish racial definitions, which ideally is a great idea, then you're right, use of minority would be offensive, but as long as groups identify themselves as groups of racial identity, they force others to treat them by that very same definition. in other words, the only difference between the word "african" which you use, and the word "black" which others use is simply that you personally find one offensive and the other not, while both are considered in the main stream to be synonymous.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: Gary Glitter on November 21, 2006, 03:56:12 PM
whoever said "south africa" was spot on

the sort of radical population change that the op is referring to is already occurring in the american southwest, where you have traditional white upper and middle class populations, in either static or negiatve growth, being quickly (in historical sense) being surpassed by a burgeoning hispanic population. the numbers, if you look at them, are sort of staggering. phoenix, AZ has gone from 8% to 35% hispanic in under 20 years. 2 years ago, over 50% of the babies born in california were hispanic. these numbers are only increasing, and at a fairly amazing rate. this is what happens when you "pit" a static population against one that is increasing virtually exponentially.

for whatever reason (religious, cultural, etc.), outside of the traditional bargain-basement working class type mold, hispanics haven't adapted well to the american system (when compared to Asians and Indians [esp. in teh state of California, where the UC is in a state of meltdown because hispanics just aren't getting teh scores to get into the system], teh differences between minority immigrant populations immediately becomes stark). the reality remains that 3rd and 4th generation hispanc-americans gennerally occupy the lower rungs of society. in arizona, tremendous $ is being spent attempting to get predominately hispanic high schools "up to speed," yet the % that don't graduate from high shcool only increases with each year. the emphasis just isn't being put in education in hispanic households, and as a result, the placement of hispancis amongst the lower rungs of american society remains relatively constant.

sooooooooo you have a rapidly-breeding, under-achieving immigrant population that is quickly swelling the ranks of the american southwest. everyone knows what is going to happen next. by the time we're old and gray teh southwest with be full of "brown cities" with enclaves of white communities hidden away behind tall gates; teh whites that stay will, of course, be generally afraid (like SA), and will hold on to whatever power may still have (a human condiiton, as opposed to a racial one). there will be acrimony, fear, violence, white-flight, etc. or maybe it'll be a washington, DC type situation, where the various racial "factions" coexist, but only in very separate and distinct quadrants. any out-of-bounds after-dark wandering will result, inevitably, in some sort of violent episode.

seems like a positive outlook doesn't it? ;)    
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ImVinny! on November 21, 2006, 03:59:59 PM
Or maybe people will decide that it doesn't matter what skin color someone has and they can just move on with themselves...
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: Gary Glitter on November 21, 2006, 04:01:13 PM
yeah, uh, history certainly compels that result...
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: tzip on November 21, 2006, 04:02:37 PM
i think you're forgetting one factor that might change this outlook. Europe is facing a very tough situation in the next 50 years, mostly due to its own migration problems, ie muslim and arab communities which are failing to integrate into the local societies, but are growing in numbers that are quickly outnumbering the white population. therefore, i predict that starting in the next few years, and increasing ever more through the century, you'll see large waves of immigration of white europeans to the US. this immigration would be a great boost for this country, as most of the people coming over would be rather affluent, well educated europeans, who realize the changing state of their homelands, and will look to advance their lives in the U.S. for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ImVinny! on November 21, 2006, 04:06:49 PM
So another Ellis Island sort of situation? Is history goin to repeat itself down that route again? Hmm, that would pan out rather interestingly!
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: Gary Glitter on November 21, 2006, 04:07:34 PM
yeah the situation of the southwest somewhat parallels what is happening in france, though the french have a much bigger problem on their hands...

you know, with muslims having such a "decorated" history of assimilation

white flight from europe to the US? haha interesting (kidna like the jewish influx during hte 40s and 50s)
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: tzip on November 21, 2006, 04:16:51 PM
that's just my prediction. the European situation is much much worse than what is happening in this country. while integration isn't going so easily here, in France (and Italy, and Holland, and Britain and...and...and..) the minority group in question is purposely refusing to integrate, rather than facing integration difficulties by the structure of the system. the Muslim population in Europe doesn't want to become a part of the local culture, in fact, they seem to resent it. see the Berlin opera that was canceled just a few weeks ago because of religious threats.
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: ImVinny! on November 21, 2006, 05:16:36 PM
Opera? Sheesh, and stravinsky thought he had it bad with the Rite of Spring, hehehe...
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: guyminuslife on November 21, 2006, 10:40:54 PM
On a total a side note, I have this theory that I can tell the difference between a person from Africa and a black person from the U.S., before even talking to them and hearing an accent. It usually pans out. I notice a phenotypic difference. Possible explanations: 1) I'm full of *&^%, 2)  American blacks often have some mixed racial heritage, 3) African immigrants come from different parts of Africa than those in which the slave trade thrived, and since there is a large degree of genetic differentiation among Africans, there is an actual phenotypic difference, 4) Africans have different mannerisms than Americans, dress differently, etc.

Anyone else experience this? I'll be utterly honest and say that I can't tell a Chinese person from a Japanese person from a Laotian from a Korean. (On the same vein, I can't tell the difference between a Dutch person and a Russian, so don't even start.) Or is this a figment of my imagination?
Title: Re: Hmmm, what about when white people are less than 50% of the population
Post by: guyminuslife on November 21, 2006, 10:52:36 PM
that's just my prediction. the European situation is much much worse than what is happening in this country. while integration isn't going so easily here, in France (and Italy, and Holland, and Britain and...and...and..) the minority group in question is purposely refusing to integrate, rather than facing integration difficulties by the structure of the system. the Muslim population in Europe doesn't want to become a part of the local culture, in fact, they seem to resent it. see the Berlin opera that was canceled just a few weeks ago because of religious threats.

I was talking to a guy in Spain who said he'd never visit America, it's too racist.

Somehow, with what I saw in Spain, and all the news coming back about Western European immigration woes, I find this hilarious. Yeah, there are Minutemen here, but we're a pretty unified culture, take that as you will.

Actually, talking about race relations in Spain, a funny anecdote: I was at a train station, and a British guy (who was black) gets off the train wearing a business suit, with a briefcase. He starts standing around a bit and says something about waiting for his brother. An African immigrant, wearing a crappy T-shirt and so forth, comes up to him and starts blabbering on in some African dialect.

"I'm terribly sorry, I don't speak your language," says the British guy in a crisp London accent. The African keeps on. "No, I don't think you understand. I do not speak your language." He looks very flustered and offended. Meanwhile, I'm cracking up. It sort of spins race relations on its head---the British man has significantly more that is culturally common with me, a white American, than with the African man who clearly immediately believes him to be part of the Sevillan African community.