Law School Discussion

Off-Topic Area => Politics and Law-Related News => Topic started by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 04, 2006, 11:58:50 PM

Title: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 04, 2006, 11:58:50 PM
the man was to be number twenty?

he conspired to commit mass murder...mass murder was done...

his execution will be retribution...

he received due process...

aye am sure justice will be served for the murders on liberty street.

he should also be held up as an example of our nations resolve to vigorously identify and prosecute acts of "global crescentors".

aye hope that he is executed...

his actions are haram and his death will be: "moomtez"


he should go...like timothy mcveigh went!
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 05, 2006, 11:41:16 PM
i'm all for executions, but i'm not so sure about this one...i mean, i think he WANTS to die so why not make him live instead of making a marter out of him?  figure out wat he wants and give him the opposite

by his actions:...he conspired to take others lives...justice for the murdered mass should be him removed from the earth...punishment is death...it is for the murdered...not him...

martyrdom is perceptional...death is real...give him death.

his choice is irrelevant...it is up to the people of the united states.

also...he is not a martyr in islamic sense in that he conspired to murder muslims...and it is written in the quoran:

4.93: And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.


his actions are haram and his death will be: "moomtez"
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: Happy_Weasel on April 06, 2006, 01:56:37 AM
If we have to kill him, can I eat him?
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 06, 2006, 01:49:18 PM
moomtaz means...essentially "perfect or priceless or beautiful." :)
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: Happy_Weasel on April 06, 2006, 03:40:10 PM
He probably tastes 'moontaz'...LET ME EAT HIM!!!
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 06, 2006, 03:44:42 PM
Honestly, who cares? So we got the bastard, great. IMO the best punishment is life in prison. I don't think he'll make many friends inside.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 06, 2006, 07:09:20 PM
3000 american families care...

and his atria and ventricles are gonna burn!

retribution for the people who were vaporized into thin air and became "ash' and the ones who became "pink mist".

moussaoui gonna be allah's footstool.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 06, 2006, 07:19:13 PM
3000 american families care...

and his atria and ventricles are gonna burn!

retribution for the people who were vaporized into thin air and became "ash' and the ones who became "pink mist".

moussaoui gonna be allah's footstool.

I think revenge is a pretty poor reason. The guy's been captured, he's no longer a threat to anyone, what's the point of killing him?
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 06, 2006, 10:10:50 PM
not revenge...retribution...he conspired...he admitted it...he did it...

he dies...

allah is waiting for him. with a painful chastisement... ;)

remember timothy mcveigh?
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: verbal213 on April 07, 2006, 10:43:32 AM
Exactly, it's retribution  not revenge.  Certain actions require certain reactions, regardless of whether or not it makes us feel good or if its what he wants.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: krumanadi on April 07, 2006, 11:08:56 AM
He probably tastes 'moontaz'...LET ME EAT HIM!!!

This made me laugh.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: krumanadi on April 07, 2006, 11:09:43 AM
3000 american families care...

and his atria and ventricles are gonna burn!

retribution for the people who were vaporized into thin air and became "ash' and the ones who became "pink mist".

moussaoui gonna be allah's footstool.

I think revenge is a pretty poor reason. The guy's been captured, he's no longer a threat to anyone, what's the point of killing him?

Deterance.  If he dies, people who don't want to die won't do what he did.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 07, 2006, 01:09:36 PM
3000 american families care...

and his atria and ventricles are gonna burn!

retribution for the people who were vaporized into thin air and became "ash' and the ones who became "pink mist".

moussaoui gonna be allah's footstool.

I think revenge is a pretty poor reason. The guy's been captured, he's no longer a threat to anyone, what's the point of killing him?

Deterance.  If he dies, people who don't want to die won't do what he did.

Right, deterance. We're talking about the people who strap bombs to themselves and crash planes into buildings. IMO life in prison would be far more likely to deter these people than death. Also, we don't have to lower ourselves.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: verbal213 on April 07, 2006, 01:22:52 PM
I dont see it as lowering ourselves.  We already execute people for much lesser crimes than this.  If you're against the death penalty totally then I see that argument, but I think if anyone deserves to be executed it's Moussaoui and his ilk.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 07, 2006, 01:26:33 PM
I'm against the death penalty totally. Also, if you guys want to punish him, death doesn't seem like a good way. People like him think of themselves as martyrs.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: verbal213 on April 07, 2006, 01:49:37 PM
Fair enough.  But if one is for the death penalty, it doesn't really matter what he wants, because it's about justice and retribution for the victims, not what will be worst for Moussaoui.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 07, 2006, 01:55:14 PM
Fair enough.  But if one is for the death penalty, it doesn't really matter what he wants, because it's about justice and retribution for the victims, not what will be worst for Moussaoui.

I think that the "eye for an eye" sentencing is a false brand of justice. We're reprimanding him for killing helpless people, and then strapping him down and killing him. IMO that's hypocrisy, not justice.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: verbal213 on April 07, 2006, 02:57:24 PM
I don't really see it as an eye for an eye.  I certainly don't think the death penalty is appropriate for all cases of murder, and that's what you're presenting as my position.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 07, 2006, 03:00:57 PM
Then what does the death penalty accomplish? Definitely not a deterance in this type of trial.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 07, 2006, 07:04:31 PM
indemnification...satisfactio n >:(
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 07, 2006, 07:16:59 PM
indemnification...satisfaction >:(

So revenge. If you meant revenge, why didn't you just say so in the first place instead of denying it? You people and your doubletalk make me ashamed for America.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 08, 2006, 10:12:02 AM
retribution is my word...indemnification is for you.

aye don't believe in revenge. ;)
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 08, 2006, 10:13:37 AM
retribution is my word...indemnification is for you.

aye don't believe in revenge. ;)

did you even read the initial post...

tsk...tsk...mr. wannabe lawyer.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 08, 2006, 02:05:26 PM
retribution is my word...indemnification is for you.

aye don't believe in revenge. ;)

That's so pompous. Taking life because you believe that's what he deserves.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: verbal213 on April 09, 2006, 05:00:39 PM
indemnification...satisfaction >:(

So revenge. If you meant revenge, why didn't you just say so in the first place instead of denying it? You people and your doubletalk make me ashamed for America.

Ashamed for America?  Wow, that's way overboard.  Is it that radical to say that Moussaoui deserves to die?  Here's how I see it...we as a society have determined that when you are proved to have done certain things, you forfeit certain rights.  It can be liberty or life.  Certainly in the case of suicide attackers like Moussaoui it isn't a deterrant.  I think the death penalty can be a deterrant in a lot of cases.  But I also don't think it's relevant whether or not the death penalty is a deterrant because actions like Moussaoui's demand a reaction of his execution from society.  That's what retribution is if you look it up.  I see revenge as more punitive.

Also, it's outrageous to compare our execution of the "helpless" Moussaoui to what he and his buddies did on 9/11.  He's been proven to have done something criminal requiring punishment.  But please feel free to go around saying we shouldn't execute ZM.  It makes your side look even more ridiculous and out of the mainstream than usual.

verb

Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 09, 2006, 06:34:56 PM
indemnification...satisfaction >:(

So revenge. If you meant revenge, why didn't you just say so in the first place instead of denying it? You people and your doubletalk make me ashamed for America.

Ashamed for America?  Wow, that's way overboard.  Is it that radical to say that Moussaoui deserves to die?

His doubletalk makes me ashamed, not his sentiment for Moussaoui. That's just misguided.

Also, it's outrageous to compare our execution of the "helpless" Moussaoui to what he and his buddies did on 9/11.  He's been proven to have done something criminal requiring punishment.  But please feel free to go around saying we shouldn't execute ZM.  It makes your side look even more ridiculous and out of the mainstream than usual.

verb

Why? I think it's obvious to any rational person that what those men did on 9/11 was unconscionably evil. However, they believed that what they did was right. Not only right, but something commendable by God. While our method of reaching conviction may differ, our result is the same. We're passing the most final kind of judgement on a helpless human being. Why not take the high road? I'm not saying we shouldn't deal with Moussaoui. He's already forfeited his right to live freely among us. That's why prison exists.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 09, 2006, 06:39:40 PM
indemnification...satisfaction >:(

So revenge. If you meant revenge, why didn't you just say so in the first place instead of denying it? You people and your doubletalk make me ashamed for America.

Ashamed for America?  Wow, that's way overboard.  Is it that radical to say that Moussaoui deserves to die?  Here's how I see it...we as a society have determined that when you are proved to have done certain things, you forfeit certain rights.  It can be liberty or life.  Certainly in the case of suicide attackers like Moussaoui it isn't a deterrant.  I think the death penalty can be a deterrant in a lot of cases.  But I also don't think it's relevant whether or not the death penalty is a deterrant because actions like Moussaoui's demand a reaction of his execution from society.  That's what retribution is if you look it up.  I see revenge as more punitive.

Also, it's outrageous to compare our execution of the "helpless" Moussaoui to what he and his buddies did on 9/11.  He's been proven to have done something criminal requiring punishment.  But please feel free to go around saying we shouldn't execute ZM.  It makes your side look even more ridiculous and out of the mainstream than usual.

verb



aye!
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: verbal213 on April 09, 2006, 08:17:31 PM
indemnification...satisfaction >:(

So revenge. If you meant revenge, why didn't you just say so in the first place instead of denying it? You people and your doubletalk make me ashamed for America.

Ashamed for America?  Wow, that's way overboard.  Is it that radical to say that Moussaoui deserves to die?

His doubletalk makes me ashamed, not his sentiment for Moussaoui. That's just misguided.

Also, it's outrageous to compare our execution of the "helpless" Moussaoui to what he and his buddies did on 9/11.  He's been proven to have done something criminal requiring punishment.  But please feel free to go around saying we shouldn't execute ZM.  It makes your side look even more ridiculous and out of the mainstream than usual.

verb

Why? I think it's obvious to any rational person that what those men did on 9/11 was unconscionably evil. However, they believed that what they did was right. Not only right, but something commendable by God. While our method of reaching conviction may differ, our result is the same. We're passing the most final kind of judgement on a helpless human being. Why not take the high road? I'm not saying we shouldn't deal with Moussaoui. He's already forfeited his right to live freely among us. That's why prison exists.

Well, if you don't think that a person can do something to forfeit their life, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, that's your opinion.  But I have to reiterate again that I don't see it as an issue of "taking the high road."  A system of the death penalty after a trial and conviction is inherently better than flying a plane into a building of people, even if you think the death penalty is wrong.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 09, 2006, 08:32:23 PM
Well, if you don't think that a person can do something to forfeit their life, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, that's your opinion.  But I have to reiterate again that I don't see it as an issue of "taking the high road."  A system of the death penalty after a trial and conviction is inherently better than flying a plane into a building of people, even if you think the death penalty is wrong.

That's not my point. I don't think anything but the imminent defense of life against those who would take it truly justifies killing another human being. Anything else is masturbation.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 09, 2006, 09:01:54 PM
indemnification...satisfaction >:(

So revenge. If you meant revenge, why didn't you just say so in the first place instead of denying it? You people and your doubletalk make me ashamed for America.

Ashamed for America?  Wow, that's way overboard.  Is it that radical to say that Moussaoui deserves to die?

His doubletalk makes me ashamed, not his sentiment for Moussaoui. That's just misguided.

Also, it's outrageous to compare our execution of the "helpless" Moussaoui to what he and his buddies did on 9/11.  He's been proven to have done something criminal requiring punishment.  But please feel free to go around saying we shouldn't execute ZM.  It makes your side look even more ridiculous and out of the mainstream than usual.

verb

Why? I think it's obvious to any rational person that what those men did on 9/11 was unconscionably evil. However, they believed that what they did was right. Not only right, but something commendable by God. While our method of reaching conviction may differ, our result is the same. We're passing the most final kind of judgement on a helpless human being. Why not take the high road? I'm not saying we shouldn't deal with Moussaoui. He's already forfeited his right to live freely among us. That's why prison exists.

Well, if you don't think that a person can do something to forfeit their life, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, that's your opinion.  But I have to reiterate again that I don't see it as an issue of "taking the high road."  A system of the death penalty after a trial and conviction is inherently better than flying a plane into a building of people, even if you think the death penalty is wrong.

he is the one hyjacker who will die alone...that is for sure...if part of his plan was to take peoples lives as well as his own at the same moment...he did not accomplish "something commendable by God" by his standards...he is to be "executed"...like a rabid cur.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 09, 2006, 09:10:21 PM
he is the one hyjacker who will die alone...that is for sure...if part of his plan was to take peoples lives as well as his own at the same moment...he did not accomplish "something commendable by God" by his standards...he is to be "executed"...like a rabid cur.

...

Don't you understand? He sees himself as a martyr, and I'm sure a lot of other extremists do too. Being convicted and executed by his enemy is an honor to him. He's dying for his God.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 09, 2006, 09:28:33 PM
aye don't care what he wants or thinks...he has no rights...perhaps jail would be better than a cramped mountain cave in afghanistan or pakistan...and a warm bed?  this is retribution for the murdered. this is for them and their families.


-----------------------------



if some of the murdered people down on vesey and liberty street were brought back to life and had a choice (before their fate)...do it over and asked the question...

if someone plotted to kill you...and they were going to be successful.

which would you prefer...

a. you would be turned into pink mist
b. you would be disintegrated into ash
c. the person who plotted to murder you would be injected with chemicals to kill him.
d. the person who plotted to murder you gets to live in a cell for the rest of his life.

which do you think some of these people would pick?
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 09, 2006, 09:38:53 PM
aye don't care what he wants or thinks...he has no rights...perhaps jail would be better than a cramped mountain cave in afghanistan or pakistan...and a warm bed?  this is retribution for the murdered. this is for them and their families.


-----------------------------



if some of the murdered people down on vesey and liberty street were brought back to life and had a choice (before their fate)...do it over and asked the question...

if someone plotted to kill you...and they were going to be successful.

which would you prefer...

a. you would be turned into pink mist
b. you would be disintegrated into ash
c. the person who plotted to murder you would be injected with chemicals to kill him.
d. the person who plotted to murder you gets to live in a cell for the rest of his life.

which do you think some of these people would pick?

Justice isn't about what the victim would want. It's about deterring future similar behavior without looking like a God damn hypocrit. You know how child molesters get treated in prison? Not too well. You think prison would be a cakewalk for Moussaoui? Think again buddy. Prisoners are prisoners, but most of them have some sense of decency.

As for the fate of my would-be assassin. I would wish him all the best, because ultimately my murder hurts him most.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 09, 2006, 09:50:54 PM
aye don't care what he wants or thinks...he has no rights...perhaps jail would be better than a cramped mountain cave in afghanistan or pakistan...and a warm bed?  this is retribution for the murdered. this is for them and their families.


-----------------------------



if some of the murdered people down on vesey and liberty street were brought back to life and had a choice (before their fate)...do it over and asked the question...

if someone plotted to kill you...and they were going to be successful.

which would you prefer...

a. you would be turned into pink mist
b. you would be disintegrated into ash
c. the person who plotted to murder you would be injected with chemicals to kill him.
d. the person who plotted to murder you gets to live in a cell for the rest of his life.

which do you think some of these people would pick?

Justice isn't about what the victim would want. It's about deterring future similar behavior without looking like a God damn hypocrit. You know how child molesters get treated in prison? Not too well. You think prison would be a cakewalk for Moussaoui? Think again buddy. Prisoners are prisoners, but most of them have some sense of decency.

As for the fate of my would-be assassin. I would wish him all the best, because ultimately my murder hurts him most.

in what way would your murder hurt him?

if you are writing about allah hurting him...then maybe the quicker he visits allah the quicker the hurting will begin.

going to jail for selling drugs is an appropriate punishment for that...

but if you hold life so precious...then the only price for a priceless life is another priceless life...now multiply that by 2000...

for a mass murderer...there really is no jail that is an appropriate punishment or rehabilitation...

so for timothy mcveigh and muoussauoi...retribution is the punishment...not to detur...to retribute.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on April 09, 2006, 10:08:34 PM
in what way would your murder hurt him?

if you are writing about allah hurting him...then maybe the quicker he visits allah the quicker the hurting will begin.

Don't be stupid. Thinking of God like that is childish. God is not an entity waiting to judge you after death. God is everywhere and everything. When you act immorally, there are practical consequences. Everything we do affects us in some way: internally and externally. My actions and decisions mold who I am, and at the same time they affect the world around me. Killing someone changes how you feel and think, and it changes how people perceive and act towards you. Acting immorally in a universe of absolute morality is asinine.

going to jail for selling drugs is an appropriate punishment for that...

but if you hold life so precious...then the only price for a priceless life is another priceless life...now multiply that by 2000...

for a mass murderer...there really is no jail that is an appropriate punishment or rehabilitation...

so for timothy mcveigh and muoussauoi...retribution is the punishment...not to detur...to retribute.

Don't you listen? Taking the life of a helpless murderer is hypocritical. There is no such thing as karmic immunity.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 09, 2006, 10:16:30 PM
in what way would your murder hurt him?

if you are writing about allah hurting him...then maybe the quicker he visits allah the quicker the hurting will begin.

Don't be stupid. Thinking of God like that is childish. God is not an entity waiting to judge you after death. God is everywhere and everything. When you act immorally, there are practical consequences. Everything we do affects us in some way: internally and externally. My actions and decisions mold who I am, and at the same time they affect the world around me. Killing someone changes how you feel and think, and it changes how people perceive and act towards you. Acting immorally in a universe of absolute morality is asinine.

just checking...pump the brakes a little..

so why do you even concern yourself with him believing he would be a martyr when in fact you know he would not?

so the hurting he would receive would be the practical consequences...incarceration. ..handcuffs...bad press...etc.

right?


do you see my difference between punishment: eg drug dealer=jail time...rehabilitation...mass murderer=death?
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: krumanadi on April 10, 2006, 08:30:30 AM
in what way would your murder hurt him?

if you are writing about allah hurting him...then maybe the quicker he visits allah the quicker the hurting will begin.

Don't be stupid. Thinking of God like that is childish. God is not an entity waiting to judge you after death. God is everywhere and everything. When you act immorally, there are practical consequences. Everything we do affects us in some way: internally and externally. My actions and decisions mold who I am, and at the same time they affect the world around me. Killing someone changes how you feel and think, and it changes how people perceive and act towards you. Acting immorally in a universe of absolute morality is asinine.

going to jail for selling drugs is an appropriate punishment for that...

but if you hold life so precious...then the only price for a priceless life is another priceless life...now multiply that by 2000...

for a mass murderer...there really is no jail that is an appropriate punishment or rehabilitation...

so for timothy mcveigh and muoussauoi...retribution is the punishment...not to detur...to retribute.

Don't you listen? Taking the life of a helpless murderer is hypocritical. There is no such thing as karmic immunity.

Weren't you the one earlier who was talking about being pompous?  You wouldn't be so pompous as to say how one should think of God, and all other ways are stupid and/or childish, would you?
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 10, 2006, 07:12:31 PM
it is the liberal catch 22...good for one...not good for the other...

where the argument is pushed back in their face.

Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: verbal213 on April 11, 2006, 10:04:30 AM
in what way would your murder hurt him?

if you are writing about allah hurting him...then maybe the quicker he visits allah the quicker the hurting will begin.

Don't be stupid. Thinking of God like that is childish. God is not an entity waiting to judge you after death. God is everywhere and everything. When you act immorally, there are practical consequences. Everything we do affects us in some way: internally and externally. My actions and decisions mold who I am, and at the same time they affect the world around me. Killing someone changes how you feel and think, and it changes how people perceive and act towards you. Acting immorally in a universe of absolute morality is asinine.

going to jail for selling drugs is an appropriate punishment for that...

but if you hold life so precious...then the only price for a priceless life is another priceless life...now multiply that by 2000...

for a mass murderer...there really is no jail that is an appropriate punishment or rehabilitation...

so for timothy mcveigh and muoussauoi...retribution is the punishment...not to detur...to retribute.

Don't you listen? Taking the life of a helpless murderer is hypocritical. There is no such thing as karmic immunity.

Weren't you the one earlier who was talking about being pompous?  You wouldn't be so pompous as to say how one should think of God, and all other ways are stupid and/or childish, would you?

No, of course not!!!  Kind of like the whole it's ok to be intolerant of people that we declare to be intolerant themselves thing.   ???
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 13, 2006, 10:10:11 AM
burn.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: Dancehallking on April 13, 2006, 02:12:32 PM
I'D HANG THE SONOFABITCH ON THE FIRST TREE I SEE!!

burn.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 13, 2006, 08:07:29 PM
imagine one of your hands on one street and the other about 200yds away from your head...somewhere down the block resting on top of a mailbox.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: Fidelio on April 14, 2006, 06:51:57 AM
the man was to be number twenty?

he conspired to commit mass murder...mass murder was done...

his execution will be retribution...

he received due process...

aye am sure justice will be served for the murders on liberty street.

he should also be held up as an example of our nations resolve to vigorously identify and prosecute acts of "global crescentors".

aye hope that he is executed...

his actions are haram and his death will be: "moomtez"


he should go...like timothy mcveigh went!

Aye happen to agree with you, Blue, Moussaoui's latest comments really pissed me the hell off.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 16, 2006, 02:08:50 AM
it is some pretty angry pointed deranged mentality at work there...

aye think of his mother and father...what were they like?

then aye think...perhaps they would believe his heart should literally burn from the inside...

and aye will sleep better knowing that his name has been erased from the earth...
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: Freak on April 27, 2006, 01:07:39 PM
I have a problem with the death penalty only when the government frames people and unfortunetly it happens too often. In this case I have no qualms whatsoever. As for killing a helpless man...he's helpless now and I wish he was helpless before, but he wasn't & thus a helpless person is not going to be killed. Abortion on the other hand...

The law says he deserves death thus he receives it; if you dislike it then change it. On this issue I don't particularly care, as long as the law is followed.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 27, 2006, 01:20:18 PM
aye like your thinking, freak.

you are not a hypocrite like those who argue against the war but support partial birth abortion...don't care about the oppressed kurdish people...but argue against torture of "global crescenting" guerrillas.

do you think that retribution (death sentence) would be a clear exercise of the law?

or do you think it is  muddy in this case...

aye see it as a clear exercise...

he will burn...justice served...
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: Freak on April 27, 2006, 02:01:15 PM
Retribution is as good a reason as deterrence and I suppose they overlap. I lean towards deterrence which is partly why I'm lukewarm on the death penalty. Detterence depends on the certainty of punishment and we rarely impose death sentences which negates its detterence value. Furthermore our justice system in general seems to impose penalties on innocent/less guilty people way, way too often. When somebody breaks the social contract then retribution is appropriate in fairness to those who have not broken it regardless of deterrence.

This is a Republic and unless you cannot vote or relocate you're not helpless. To the helpless I feel a duty & not so much to the just uninformed. Thus whatever the laws states, regardless of the policy behind it, binds us.
 
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: Spaceman Spiff on April 27, 2006, 04:12:16 PM
it is the liberal catch 22...good for one...not good for the other...

where the argument is pushed back in their face.



that isn't what catch-22 means.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 29, 2006, 09:01:35 AM
look it up.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: Spaceman Spiff on April 29, 2006, 09:27:54 AM
look it up.

i don't have to.  i know what it means.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on April 30, 2006, 10:08:32 PM
Mr. Moussaoui's Punishment
When prosecutors and a defendant are eager for a death sentence, think twice.
Monday, May 1, 2006; Page A18


WHAT JURY COULD spare accused Sept. 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui from capital punishment? Mr. Moussaoui does not just admit his role in the attacks, he boasts of it. He claims more culpability than the government can prove. He revels in the attacks' success and sneers at and insults the grieving families of the victims. He mocks the justice system that would hold him accountable. What jury could find the mitigating factors in his case outweighing the aggravating ones? Only a jury -- or individual jurors -- both wise and courageous.

We oppose the death penalty as a matter of principle. But in Mr. Moussaoui's case, there are at least two reasons for sparing him, independent of one's views on capital punishment. The first is that Mr. Moussaoui's actual connections to the attacks are tenuous. The government wishes to put him to death because, by lying to investigators at the time of his detention, he allegedly prevented them from unraveling the conspiracy. This is an emotionally powerful argument, because everyone wants to be able to rewind the clock and have another shot at stopping what happened that day -- or, at least, to hold someone responsible in lieu of 19 hijackers unavailable for trial. And it ironically dovetails with an apparently powerful emotional need on Mr. Moussaoui's part to take credit for the attacks. It may even be correct, as the jury found in holding him eligible for death.

 
But the government's theory is inherently speculative, and America shouldn't administer lethal injections based on speculation. Mr. Moussaoui is a braggart and at least a little bit nutty. He didn't actually kill anyone. Allowing his execution would potentially open the door for executions of low-level conspirators in other crimes, not for actual participation but for allowing them to happen. It's a dangerous road.

The second reason to spare Mr. Moussaoui is to avoid martyring him -- both in his own mind and, more important, in the minds of al-Qaeda sympathizers around the world. Al-Qaeda is, among other things, a death cult; Osama bin Laden once described his fighters as "The Nation of Martyrdom; the Nation that desires death more than you desire life." Everything about Mr. Moussaoui's behavior throughout his trial testifies to his yearning for martyrdom. Prosecutors are happy to oblige, but it's not the smart response.


make no mistake...he should be executed as retribution...he was already looked at by his peers as a sicarii...he is no martyr.

what timothy mcveigh could have prevented.
what this "crescenting guerrilla" could have prevented...

jurisprudence will be actioned...burn his heart...
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: verbal213 on May 03, 2006, 05:25:45 PM
Sigh...oh well.  What can one do?  I just fear that this will give ammo to the anti-death penalty crowd, ie, We didn't execute Moussaoui, why should we execute this guy?

verb
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on May 03, 2006, 05:44:02 PM
those three jurors also have the rest of their lives to be haunted by the ghosts of those murdered...

retribution would have been appropriate.

as for zm...he will be buried in a cell for the rest of his life and then allah will eventually handle him...perhaps he will have many surprises waiting for him in prison...

and for the piss-poor "martyr" fearing folks...you win.
but this bumbleclot was looked at by his peers as a sicarii.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ADM on May 03, 2006, 06:13:51 PM
those three jurors also have the rest of their lives to be haunted by the ghosts of those murdered...

retribution would have been appropriate.

as for zm...he will be buried in a cell for the rest of his life and then allah will eventually handle him...perhaps he will have many surprises waiting for him in prison...

and for the piss-poor "martyr" fearing folks...you win.
but this bumbleclot was looked at by his peers as a sicarii.


I think you misunderstood. Martyrdom was never my primary argument against the death penalty. I think it's fundamentally wrong (and hypocritical) to sentence a murderer to death for killing defenseless people.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: sacrilegist on May 04, 2006, 12:17:06 PM
I think the jurors who disagreed with death did so because they felt Moussaoui's link to the actual events of 9/11 was weak at best.  Wanting justice for what happened on 9/11 doesn't mean we should kill Moussaoui just because he's the only one we've got.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: verbal213 on May 04, 2006, 01:08:42 PM
Sigh...oh well.  What can one do?  I just fear that this will give ammo to the anti-death penalty crowd, ie, We didn't execute Moussaoui, why should we execute this guy?

verb

i'll take that over giving ammo to the "i'm a fundamentalist fanatic who wants to be martyred too" crowd.

That's absurd.  Typical of the "it's our fault mentality," sadly.  These people hate us and want to kill us.  You can't hope to appease them by not executing Moussaoui.  WAKE UP!

EDIT: I'm sorry, but the more I think about your comment the angrier I get.  That is such a ridiculous thing to say.  Who cares if executing this a-hole will make them mad?  Honestly, why does their opinion matter?  If you think it will make them want to attack us more, you're wrong, but even if you think that, the appropriate response is to try harder to kill them and prevent attacks, not to spare Moussaoui.  The Islamofascists are animals who must be pounded into submission.  They represent everything we, liberal and conservative alike, must oppose.  And yet, we allow ourselves to be divided by stupid little details like whether we should execute Moussaoui.  Enough already, America, this is war.  The outcome is not assured.  We have to win.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: krumanadi on May 04, 2006, 01:11:52 PM
Moussaoui played us.  He isn't mad that hes not being executed.  He didn't want to be a martyr.  He said to "America lost, I won."  The guy is happy to be alive. He knew by acting the way he did, people would try not to make him a martyr, even though he wouldnt have been one at all, and now hes alive.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: theprocrastinator on May 04, 2006, 01:45:33 PM
My biggest concern about giving him the death penalty was the effect it would have had on our death penalty jurisprudence. Its not often that we execute people who were in jail when the crime they are executed for was conducted. Sure we have executed people for predicate crimes like attempt and conspiracy before, but they are always present at the actual scene of the crime and are condemned because they could have prevented the crime but failed to do so. The causal connection between Moussaoui's ommission and the fact that 9/11 occurred is extremely weak. Would the FBI have even taken him seriously if he had warned them? Did he even know what the other targets were, who the other hijackers were, what airports they were going to operate from? Maybe not.

In this particular case, I personally couldn't care less if they burned him alive because there isn't an ounce of me that thinks he deserves to live, but what about the next time some guy in jail knows some vague details about a crime that hasn't yet occurred is being considered for the death penalty?
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: sacrilegist on May 04, 2006, 02:44:53 PM
I get the impression that those who are extremely hungry for his death are seeking retribution for 9/11 instead of retribution for what Moussaoui actually did.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: verbal213 on May 04, 2006, 03:14:35 PM
That's absurd.  Typical of the "it's our fault mentality," sadly.  These people hate us and want to kill us.  You can't hope to appease them by not executing Moussaoui.  WAKE UP!

who said anything about appeasing them?  they don't have access to him, and they can't point to him as a martyr.

Honestly, why does their opinion matter?  If you think it will make them want to attack us more, you're wrong, but even if you think that, the appropriate response is to try harder to kill them and prevent attacks, not to spare Moussaoui.  The Islamofascists are animals who must be pounded into submission.  They represent everything we, liberal and conservative alike, must oppose.

so are you saying he should have been executed for deterrence?  retribution?  both?

as for deterrence, these are suicide bombers we're talking about here, not your average american murder (who also isn't deterred by the death penalty very much).  do you think the death penalty deters suicide bombers ... people who kill themselves for their cause?  wasn't the iraq war supposed to be the big example, after all, of how america would respond to threats?  how much has that deterred terrorism?

if you're not arguing for deterrence, this is all based on the premise that you're arguing with someone who agrees with the death penalty in principle for some type of retributive effect.  you're not.  if you're going to go that route we should just stop posting because i'm not going to beat that dead horse.

They represent everything we, liberal and conservative alike, must oppose.

so since life in prison w/solitary confinement doesn't "oppose" him enough to you, what you're really saying is that they represent everything we, liberal and conservative alike, must respond to conservatively.  while trying to sound non-partisan, you're making an empty (and circular) statement here.

It's appeasement because you imply that fear of attack should preclude us from executing him, at least in part.  That's what your original response implies, if that's not what you mean, please correct me.

I understand what you're implying about the Iraq war causing more terrorism, if you are referring to the insurgency.  Obviously they wouldn't be attacking us in Iraq if we hadn't invaded because we wouldn't be there.  But, I do think that military action to destroy al Qaeda is the only way to ultimately prevent attacks.  My overall point was not really about Moussaoui, just a response to what I saw as your belief that not executing him will somehow prevent attacks.  Hopefully, you recognize how wrong that idea is.  I agree there's no point to debate the death penalty overall.

verb
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on May 04, 2006, 06:51:52 PM
retribution was good enough for mcveigh...
retribution would have been good enough for moussaoui...he had information and let the "murdering" mission continue...conspiracy.  he was involved in plotting mass murder...mass murder which took place...

those who have argued that retribution in not justified are seriously "sheeplike" dodo birds...

the jury fuched this one up...period...

three people had no backbone...

hope they see america's "first wave of defense" in the new 911 film...
and realize how flimsy they were with their choice to spare this cauliflower's life.

Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: theprocrastinator on May 04, 2006, 07:04:01 PM
retribution was good enough for mcveigh...
retribution would have been good enough for moussaoui...

the jury fuched this one up...period...

three people had no backbone...

hope they see america's "first wave of defense" in the new 911 film...
and realize how flimsy they were with their choice to spare this cauliflower's life.



Do you really believe that those three people made the decision they did because they had no backbone? After watching this man's perverse rants praising bin laden and condemning the US and the civilians that died on 9/11 day in and day out those three people were able to make the decision not to send him to his death for whatever reasons they thought justified that decision, and you think it was because of a lack of backbone? Grow up.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on May 04, 2006, 07:05:15 PM
retribution was good enough for mcveigh...
retribution would have been good enough for moussaoui...

the jury fuched this one up...period...

three people had no backbone...

hope they see america's "first wave of defense" in the new 911 film...
and realize how flimsy they were with their choice to spare this cauliflower's life.



Do you really believe that those three people made the decision they did because they had no backbone? After watching this man's perverse rants praising bin laden and condemning the US and the civilians that died on 9/11 day in and day out those three people were able to make the decision not to send him to his death for whatever reasons they thought justified that decision, and you think it was because of a lack of backbone? Grow up.

yes...

now...you wrote: grow up...that is meaningless.

they DO lack backbone...no question about it.

we are talking about MASS MURDER...no question in my mind...he should have been sentenced to death...
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: theprocrastinator on May 04, 2006, 07:15:46 PM
retribution was good enough for mcveigh...
retribution would have been good enough for moussaoui...

the jury fuched this one up...period...

three people had no backbone...

hope they see america's "first wave of defense" in the new 911 film...
and realize how flimsy they were with their choice to spare this cauliflower's life.



Do you really believe that those three people made the decision they did because they had no backbone? After watching this man's perverse rants praising bin laden and condemning the US and the civilians that died on 9/11 day in and day out those three people were able to make the decision not to send him to his death for whatever reasons they thought justified that decision, and you think it was because of a lack of backbone? Grow up.

yes...

now...you wrote: grow up...that is meaningless.

they DO lack backbone...no question about it.

we are talking about MASS MURDER...no question in my mind...he should have been sentenced to death...

You said "they DO lack backbone...no question about it"

That is meaningless.

We are talking about mass murder that occurred while the man was in US custody and therefore mass murder that he did not actually commit, witness, or allow to occur when he could have prevented it.

Regardless of this fact, I still do not see how making the decision to send somebody to life in solitary confinement instead of death is a reflection of lacking backbone.

Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on May 04, 2006, 07:20:43 PM
it takes backbone to call for retribution...
sending someone to jail does not call for a decision of life or death...

the three went with their own weakness and/or moral agenda...no backbone.

if you are a moral person...you understand the toughness of the decision to call for a murder conspirator's death...and not just locking him up for the next 40 yrs.

he conspired to commit mass murder...mass murder was actioned...he did nothing to prevent it...he would have carried out his mission...

many people's lives were taken...his should be taken as well.

timothy mcveigh was retribution for conspiring re: mass murder as well.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: theprocrastinator on May 04, 2006, 09:44:37 PM
it takes backbone to call for retribution...
sending someone to jail does not call for a decision of life or death...

the three went with their own weakness and/or moral agenda...no backbone.

if you are a moral person...you understand the toughness of the decision to call for a murder conspirator's death...and not just locking him up for the next 40 yrs.

he conspired to commit mass murder...mass murder was actioned...he did nothing to prevent it...he would have carried out his mission...

many people's lives were taken...his should be taken as well.

timothy mcveigh was retribution for conspiring re: mass murder as well.

You are a moron
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on May 04, 2006, 09:46:59 PM
aye see you too have difficulty with tough decisions.

namecalling? good refute.
next.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: theprocrastinator on May 04, 2006, 10:08:47 PM
it takes backbone to call for retribution...
sending someone to jail does not call for a decision of life or death...

the three went with their own weakness and/or moral agenda...no backbone.

if you are a moral person...you understand the toughness of the decision to call for a murder conspirator's death...and not just locking him up for the next 40 yrs.

he conspired to commit mass murder...mass murder was actioned...he did nothing to prevent it...he would have carried out his mission...

many people's lives were taken...his should be taken as well.

timothy mcveigh was retribution for conspiring re: mass murder as well.

Okay fine I'll humor you. You say that the 3 jurors acted the way they did because of 1) their weakness or 2) their moral agenda. Please explain to me how their decision is a reflection of weakness. If it was not weakness, then explain how it was a part of their "moral agenda." Also, I would like you to explain how a person can have a moral agenda without being a moral person, as you imply.

You keep using the word 'retribution' as if it has some meaning beyond punishment or revenge. If you feel this way, then explain why you feel this way. You also imply that life in prison is somehow a bullsh*t punishment. If that is the case, then please explain why.

I cannot argue with you effectively if you are not able to give an explanation for any of your statements. Its not hard to accuse people of having no backbone, or of being morons for that matter. However, it is hard to back up blanket statements like that with thoughtful analysis.

Now, I need to pass out because I have to move halfway across the country tomorrow and have had too much to drink tonight as it is, so don't wait up all night for my response. Take some time and come up with something interesting to say. If you can formulate a coherent statement of your position by tomorrow morning that consists of more than just empty rhetoric than I will address it. Have a good night.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on May 04, 2006, 11:39:54 PM
decision to commit someone to incarceration for the rest of life and taking their life weigh differently.

one action has more gravity...deciding to execute.

three decided against the more difficult choice...fine...aye respect their decision...it is just the weaker choice.

he marked himself as guilty...the jury magnified the mark by finding him guilty...three of the jury could not back up the guilty mark with appropriate retribution for the act with which moussaoui involved himself...

aye am utterly disappointed with the three jurors decision...sorry.


retribution:
from latin retribti...retribtin-...from retribtus...past participle of retribuere...to pay back : re-...re- + tribuere...to grant; see tribe...

{interesting to note that the word tribe might be derived from a form of three.}
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: theprocrastinator on May 05, 2006, 06:35:41 AM
The decision to commit someone to incarceration may not carry as much gravity as the decision to take their life, but it is only a relative difference and the fact that one may carry less gravity does not necessarily mean that it is the weaker choice in every situation anyway. For example, if the person whose fate is being decided had killed family members of the person charged with making the decision I think it would take a lot more strength of character to stand up for ones own convictions and sense of morality and not sink down to their level.

That is just one example, but the fact of the matter is you cannot judge a person's actions without knowing why they chose those actions. Perhaps the juror's religion prohibited them from taking a life. Perhaps they realized that the evidence showing a causal connection between Moussaoui's ommission and the murders he pled guilty to was extremely attenuated and were concerned that enforcing the death penalty in such a situation would set a dangerous precedent. Perhaps they proceeded with one of those beliefs or convictions even though in their hearts they wanted nothing more than to see this man die and were completely disgusted with the fact that he would live because of their actions and they will never stop thinking about whether or not they made the right decision. Perhaps they even knew somebody that died in those attacks. Maybe they grew up in New York or DC.

Sometimes it takes a stronger man to walk away.


...and I have to tell you that using the word 'retribution' in place of 'revenge' is not hiding your true intentions very well. Retribution is not concerned with your personal feelings, but clearly you have invested a lot into this debate on a personal level. Otherwise you would not resort to describing your own feelings so often making sure to let us know how disappointed you are.

Notice that I'm not even arguing that retribution would not be justified, I'm just saying that retribution is not what you seek.
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: ! B L U E WAR R I O R..! on May 07, 2006, 10:58:12 AM
The decision to commit someone to incarceration may not carry as much gravity as the decision to take their life, but it is only a relative difference and the fact that one may carry less gravity does not necessarily mean that it is the weaker choice in every situation anyway. For example, if the person whose fate is being decided had killed family members of the person charged with making the decision I think it would take a lot more strength of character to stand up for ones own convictions and sense of morality and not sink down to their level.

That is just one example, but the fact of the matter is you cannot judge a person's actions without knowing why they chose those actions. Perhaps the juror's religion prohibited them from taking a life. Perhaps they realized that the evidence showing a causal connection between Moussaoui's ommission and the murders he pled guilty to was extremely attenuated and were concerned that enforcing the death penalty in such a situation would set a dangerous precedent. Perhaps they proceeded with one of those beliefs or convictions even though in their hearts they wanted nothing more than to see this man die and were completely disgusted with the fact that he would live because of their actions and they will never stop thinking about whether or not they made the right decision. Perhaps they even knew somebody that died in those attacks. Maybe they grew up in New York or DC.

Sometimes it takes a stronger man to walk away.


...and I have to tell you that using the word 'retribution' in place of 'revenge' is not hiding your true intentions very well. Retribution is not concerned with your personal feelings, but clearly you have invested a lot into this debate on a personal level. Otherwise you would not resort to describing your own feelings so often making sure to let us know how disappointed you are.

Notice that I'm not even arguing that retribution would not be justified, I'm just saying that retribution is not what you seek.

the definition of retribution fits perfectly...

revenge...no
retaliation...no
deterrence...no

retribution...repayment...yes
Title: Re: ZACHARIAS MOUSSAOUI WILL BURN!!!!!
Post by: Julie Fern on January 27, 2007, 01:12:55 PM
putz.