Law School Discussion

Law Students => Online Law Schools => Topic started by: InterAlia1961 on August 21, 2011, 03:23:51 PM

Title: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: InterAlia1961 on August 21, 2011, 03:23:51 PM
For nearly two months, my subconscious let me know that I didn’t pass the California First-Year Law Student’s Examination (FYLSE, also called the ‘baby bar’). While I waited for my results, I checked my horoscope compulsively, drank more wine than I should have, and assured myself that there was no way I didn’t pass it. I did well on the Concord final. But at night, I dreamed of having to go back—back to the place with the giant trees, back to the library, back to church. In each of these dreams, I saw something associated with Pasadena, California, where I sat for the June 2011 FYLSE. The church was the part of the Pasadena Convention Center, where the test is given, so was the library. I knew I had failed, yet I tried the “keep a positive attitude” routine, and tried to convince myself that I had reached the 560 score that would allow me to continue, triumphantly on through my second year. Some days, it worked. Most days it didn’t.

I studied; I practiced, and I rocked the final. Then I stopped studying and practicing, and started watching theater of the macabre—the Casey Anthony trial. Read the rest here>>>>http://thedailydefacto.com/2011/08/21/failed_californis_baby_bar/ (http://thedailydefacto.com/2011/08/21/failed_californis_baby_bar/)

 :'(
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: lawyerintraining on August 21, 2011, 04:37:19 PM
How many re attempts do you have left? Plan to use them?

With any luck you only need drastic imporvment in specific areas to make studying easier for the next round.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: passaroa25 on August 21, 2011, 09:23:38 PM
I am very sorry that you received that awful yellow paper with the words unsuccessful candidates on the top.  When you take it again, you will pass.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: InterAlia1961 on August 22, 2011, 10:38:35 AM
How many re attempts do you have left? Plan to use them?

With any luck you only need drastic improvement in specific areas to make studying easier for the next round.

Two attempts left. I plan to take it again in October. I'm practicing every day. My worst area is contracts. I really struggle with contracts essays. Not so with contract mcqs, though. I do well there. In fact, on the  mcq portion, I got 30 correct in contracts. Bombed torts. On the essay portion, I got a passing score on one of the criminal law essays. I'm working on my essay skills and practicing my mcqs.

Angie:  Just out of curiosity...what color is the paper in the envelopes of those who passed?
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: agarcia323 on August 22, 2011, 12:37:58 PM
Hi,

It appears that we go to the same school, and we took the test in the same location.

This is what I can tell you from personal experience.

My essay scores were as follows.

Criminal Law (the one where the guy entered the females room and her roomates chased him)  I got a 75

Criminal Law Essay 70

Tort Law (Private Nuisance) which I thought I did poorly on I got a 70

Contract Law (Which I thought I did the best on) I got a 60

MBE 85

When you are doing the analysis part just think both sides of the argument.  Just like a real argument with your spouse, co-worker etc.  This is what worked for me.

I didnt do any of the concord baby bar program. 
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: FalconJimmy on August 22, 2011, 01:25:30 PM
:'(

Hang in there.  You'll get 'em next time.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: lawyerintraining on August 22, 2011, 03:40:47 PM
Hi,

It appears that we go to the same school, and we took the test in the same location.

This is what I can tell you from personal experience.

My essay scores were as follows.

Criminal Law (the one where the guy entered the females room and her roomates chased him)  I got a 75

Criminal Law Essay 70

Tort Law (Private Nuisance) which I thought I did poorly on I got a 70

Contract Law (Which I thought I did the best on) I got a 60

MBE 85

When you are doing the analysis part just think both sides of the argument.  Just like a real argument with your spouse, co-worker etc.  This is what worked for me.

I didnt do any of the concord baby bar program.

I am assumeing that your scores were passes(were they?) What is the minimum to pass? Does it vary by test date on a curve or a set score?
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: passaroa25 on August 22, 2011, 10:08:48 PM
Agarcia323, what color paper  was your notice printed on?
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: financialandtaxguy on August 23, 2011, 02:33:35 PM
Keep trying kiddo!  I'm in the same boat, and my memory skills are fading fast, but I will attempt my second try this October.  This failed exam is no reflection on the skills and abilities you already excel in, it's just a bump on the road, and at times I think it unfair that Calbar has put this extra burden on us, but we keep moving on!
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: lawyerintraining on August 23, 2011, 07:06:24 PM
Keep trying kiddo!  I'm in the same boat, and my memory skills are fading fast, but I will attempt my second try this October.  This failed exam is no reflection on the skills and abilities you already excel in, it's just a bump on the road, and at times I think it unfair that Calbar has put this extra burden on us, but we keep moving on!

How is it "unfair"? If anything it's more than fair.

Without it, you'd be stuck where every other state is with online JD degrees(nowhere's land)
There has to be some type of gatekeeper weeding out process. For regular JD's its the LSAT and traditional training. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't even the online ones that "require" an LSAT, except ANY score?(even in theory a raw 120)

I'm told it's a hard exam and many lawyers who took it for kicks failed it. That being said, if that went down then online JD's would go the way of the CPEC degrees http://www.cpec.ca.gov/CollegeGuide/Accreditation.asp I believe every few years CA makes a "new agency" with a new name and then has to close it down.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: passaroa25 on August 23, 2011, 10:11:17 PM
The FYLSE is an unfair exam because you are given 12 months to internalize concepts that really take more than a year to remember.  And, just because other people come up with a year of study, then exam system, that doesn't mean it's perfect and that there is something wrong with the 80% that fail it.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: Hamilton on August 24, 2011, 05:44:47 AM
I do not understand.  What concepts take more than 1 year to remember that are tested?
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: InterAlia1961 on August 24, 2011, 07:19:57 AM
I don't necessarily think the test is unfair, and in light of the fact that we don't have to take the LSAT, it seems more than reasonable. What strikes me as a bit of overkill is CalBar's schedule. I didn't think I was ready to take the test in June. I was recovering from a broken leg which required two surgeries to fix. I was in a wheelchair. I was on pain medication while I studied for the test. I flew to California because of my mobility issues. I am terrified of flying. The whole trip was a disaster. But I had no choice. CalBar demands that you pass the test in the first three consecutive administrations for which you are eligible. If you miss one, it counts as a failed attempt. That's what I think is a little unfair. This constraint was (is) an issue for me.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: lawyerintraining on August 24, 2011, 11:07:44 AM
The FYLSE is an unfair exam because you are given 12 months to internalize concepts that really take more than a year to remember.  And, just because other people come up with a year of study, then exam system, that doesn't mean it's perfect and that there is something wrong with the 80% that fail it.

I'm not denying it's a hard exam, but the 80% has at least part to do with WHO is failing it. If you allow people with a selfpaced online AA degree with a 2.0 and a 120 LSAT to sit it, yeah they will probably fail it(very,very badly). It would be interested to see statistics on the failrate in regards to undergrad GPA and LSAT score.

I'm not saying they can't revise it, they should every few years(just as they do to the GED,LSAT,Multistate bar exam,etc) but it needs to be there. If you don't filter your water, it stops being safe to drink.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: FalconJimmy on August 25, 2011, 06:44:39 AM
I'm not saying they can't revise it, they should every few years(just as they do to the GED,LSAT,Multistate bar exam,etc) but it needs to be there. If you don't filter your water, it stops being safe to drink.

I think it's not so much to prevent unsound lawyers, but to prevent people who shouldn't even be in law school from wasting 2 more years of their lives.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: Hamilton on August 25, 2011, 08:25:04 AM
Perhaps a baby bar should be an ABA requirement - you get 1, maybe 2 bites at the apple then you are done.  That would get rid of some of the diploma mills out there screwing students for $100K who have very little realistic prospect of passing the bar or securing gainful employment in the law.  And I am not being a snob - I went to one of those mills.

I'm not saying they can't revise it, they should every few years(just as they do to the GED,LSAT,Multistate bar exam,etc) but it needs to be there. If you don't filter your water, it stops being safe to drink.

I think it's not so much to prevent unsound lawyers, but to prevent people who shouldn't even be in law school from wasting 2 more years of their lives.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: lawyerintraining on August 25, 2011, 04:38:41 PM
That might actually not be a bad idea, but I doubt the schools that cry foul when you try to require their grads to even sit the real bar, or who refuse to give a letter grade would bendover and all their students to be asked to do so without a crybaby fest enough to drown a herd of elephants.  :'(
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: FalconJimmy on August 25, 2011, 06:13:47 PM
Perhaps a baby bar should be an ABA requirement - you get 1, maybe 2 bites at the apple then you are done.  That would get rid of some of the diploma mills out there screwing students for $100K who have very little realistic prospect of passing the bar or securing gainful employment in the law.  And I am not being a snob - I went to one of those mills.

Not a crazy idea.  Given that most 1L studies are pretty much all the same subjects, this shouldn't be that hard to do.

My understanding, though, is that Law Schools are quite the revenue mill for their universities, though.  I doubt they'd appreciate the idea of losing a big chunk of tuition money.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: Hamilton on August 26, 2011, 08:07:40 AM
And THAT is the root of the entire problem, from student loans to the schools themselves... money.  Higher ed is now largely a money-making business driven by profit/cash-flow and not voactional training.  If training for profession were the true motivator it would not cost so much and they would not pad their curriculums/graduation requirements with so much fluff (which just ends up costing the customer... I mean student... more money).

Yes, they would never go for a plan that is in the best interest of the student, reduces cost, and reduces the revenue generated by these "schools."

Note to Cooley Law School - these statements are merely personal opinions are not accusations of fraudulent or illegal activity on behalf of any law school or it's administration.  (can't be too careful with those guys).

Perhaps a baby bar should be an ABA requirement - you get 1, maybe 2 bites at the apple then you are done.  That would get rid of some of the diploma mills out there screwing students for $100K who have very little realistic prospect of passing the bar or securing gainful employment in the law.  And I am not being a snob - I went to one of those mills.

Not a crazy idea.  Given that most 1L studies are pretty much all the same subjects, this shouldn't be that hard to do.

My understanding, though, is that Law Schools are quite the revenue mill for their universities, though.  I doubt they'd appreciate the idea of losing a big chunk of tuition money.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: lawyerintraining on August 26, 2011, 04:42:22 PM
People just cry foul when someone is willing to do the same job but for cheaper. Supply/demand=salary. I get it.

If the ABA/state requirments aren't high enough, just sue them to make them raise it. PROVE harm in COURT. If so, the standard will be raised, and if they continue to meet said standard.....at least you made them do that.

Untill that happens, it's people crying for the love of the taste of their own tears.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: like_lasagna on August 28, 2011, 12:45:07 AM
The FYLSE is an unfair exam because you are given 12 months to internalize concepts that really take more than a year to remember. 

plenty of people pass the bar by taking barbri and learning about things they had never heard of

and it's much less than 12 months of prep
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: lawyerintraining on August 28, 2011, 04:11:46 AM
The FYLSE is an unfair exam because you are given 12 months to internalize concepts that really take more than a year to remember. 

plenty of people pass the bar by taking barbri and learning about things they had never heard of

and it's much less than 12 months of prep

Yeah, but in all fairness that's AFTER THREE YEARS of lawschool(vs the one) too.
Title: Re: I Failed the Baby Bar, and It's Casey Anthony's Fault
Post by: passaroa25 on August 29, 2011, 03:34:29 PM
Most online law schools are not using Barbri.  They are taking the brick and mortar law school model of case briefing and discussion and are applying it to teaching contract, criminal law, and tort theory.  The average beginning online law school student assumes that by following the online law school method, he or she will pass the FYLSE.  Notice that the person who passed the FYLSE did not depend heavily on Concord law school's model.  He focused primarily on the test itself. 

The FYLSE system is unfair because you cannot pass it the first time by following the brick and mortar law school model.  If online law schools focused only on multiple choice questions and writing essays, 80 percent of all test takers would pass the FYLSE.