Law School Discussion

Law Students => Transferring => Topic started by: sanam on November 29, 2010, 05:01:58 AM

Title: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: sanam on November 29, 2010, 05:01:58 AM
Hi guys I am a 1L at cooley in the top 10% with 3.6 gpa and 50% scholarship, I was wondering if it worth paying the extra $18000 per year to attend Michigan State University Law school as they are not  offering anything. I heard you can not do law review or moot court there and the school is not particulary good to trasferees. Is the name worth transfering for in terms of Job prospects in usa or canada.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: Hamilton on November 29, 2010, 07:56:21 AM
I think if you are going to stay in MI, then absolutely it would be worth it.  What about Wayne State?  Would be a wash from tuition standpoint.  Folks can argue that rankings do not matter - BS.  When it comes to the regional reputation, MSU and WSU stand above Cooley.

Personally, my broad advice is to reconsider law school, period.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: fortook on November 29, 2010, 08:25:40 AM
Are you saying he should reconsider law school in general because he goes to Cooley?  Wow so harsh even for a religious ranking follower. 

OP- he is right though with the other schools in MI like WSU and Detroit Mercy.  Both are much stronger regionally and your job chances would be better in MI if you transfer.  I don't think its true that Cooley is a joke, but people like Hamilton are everywhere, including MI firms and won't give you a chance coming out of Cooley.  Good luck and stay in school. Hamilton is a deucher for saying what he said  with the only thing he knows about you is that you go to Cooley.  What a deucher.  Your are top 10%, I doubt he is.  And again, wow what a deucher.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: bigs5068 on November 29, 2010, 08:40:05 AM
I would try to get more scholarship money out of Cooley. If you can get another 15,000 for the next 2 years out of them stay at Cooley. If they don't give you anything extra then MSU might be better.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: Hamilton on November 29, 2010, 10:12:33 AM
Well, actually finished top 15% and ran into the hiring wall.  Contrary to your assumption, my comment re: reconsidering law school has nothing to do with Cooley.  As I have posted numerous times, considering the oversupply of lawyers, terrible job market, and high cost for law school, I suggest ANYONE not going to a T14, paying full price, and going to law school b/c it seems like the ting to do, should seriously rethink their decision before potentially sinking themselves $150K in debt with a high risk of not being able to pay it back.  If that's douchey, then so be it.

Are you saying he should reconsider law school in general because he goes to Cooley?  Wow so harsh even for a religious ranking follower. 

Your are top 10%, I doubt he is.  And again, wow what a deucher.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: Hamilton on November 29, 2010, 10:13:35 AM
Have you heard of scholarships being this "negotiable?"

I would try to get more scholarship money out of Cooley. If you can get another 15,000 for the next 2 years out of them stay at Cooley. If they don't give you anything extra then MSU might be better.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: Hamilton on November 29, 2010, 10:33:57 AM
And finally, my comments are not made in judgement, they are made based on first-hand experience.  I NEVER said Cooley was a joke - you chose to imply that based on a flawed assumption regarding my post.  I do not base my comments based on judgement of schools ranked lower than T14, I comment based on the reality of how the legal community perceives the products of the school based on the school's ranking - rightly or wrongly.  The reality is that a Michigan grad, Wyne State grad, or Michigan State grad will immediately be viewed higher than a Cooley grad by a prospective employer.  I'm not saying it is right, but it is fact.

Can split hairs between T3 and T4 rankings, but those rankings fairly represent the general regional reputation of the schools.

OP- he is right though with the other schools in MI like WSU and Detroit Mercy.  Both are much stronger regionally and your job chances would be better in MI if you transfer.  I don't think its true that Cooley is a joke, but people like Hamilton are everywhere, including MI firms and won't give you a chance coming out of Cooley. 
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: fortook on November 29, 2010, 10:47:10 AM
A lucid, intelligent, well thought out response Hamilton.  Touche.

I love you.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: fortook on November 29, 2010, 10:50:34 AM
Oh and yes I have heard of scholarships being negotiable.  A buddy of mine was offered a higher grant amount not to transfer.  He transferred anyway, however.  A smart dean will know that the students are both an obligation and a potential asset to the school.  It will very greatly by school.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: bigs5068 on November 29, 2010, 01:08:03 PM
Yes they are negotiable both me & my friend got more money once we showed we had been accepted through transfer applications.

If you want to be a good lawyer you must remember everything is negotiable. Even when people say we can't budge people always can. Any attorney worth their salt would not stop with a mere statement of we can't possibly budge on this number. Or we never do that for anyone. Everything in life is negotiable.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: sanam on December 06, 2010, 07:21:17 AM
any more suggestion? is MSU worth it if I want to practice in Canada
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: fortook on December 06, 2010, 10:48:19 AM
Canada has a different legal education system.  I don't think you can get licensed to practice in Canada if you go to a US school and visa versa without an LLM.  Either go to a Canadian school or look into Detroit Mercy- they have a duel degree program with the US and Canada.  I looked into UDM because I am interested in Latin law.  They also have a degree program with a Mexican law school.  I can't remember which Canadian school they use for licensing purposes, but I know they can do it plus it's easy to get into and they have a decent reputation in MI.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: bigs5068 on December 06, 2010, 10:54:55 AM
That sounds like pretty good advice. One other thing to Consider is MSU's tuition is 31k, which is 5k a year more than Cooley. 31k x 2=62K in tuition alone for the next two years at MSU. While if you maintain the 50% scholarship you will be paying 13k x 2=26k. So you have to ask yourself is a Michigan State Degree really worth 36K more over the next two years with 8% interest. That is going to add up a lot. Neither school wows anyone I imagine MSU is better than Cooley. I just do not know if it is worth 36K with interest more than Cooley. That is a judgment call. I always think you should get through an accredited program with as little debt as possible. Unless it is an ELITE school. That is only my two cents though.
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: kjw5029 on December 07, 2010, 11:12:12 AM
Canada has a different legal education system.  I don't think you can get licensed to practice in Canada if you go to a US school and visa versa without an LLM.  Either go to a Canadian school or look into Detroit Mercy- they have a duel degree program with the US and Canada.  I looked into UDM because I am interested in Latin law.  They also have a degree program with a Mexican law school.  I can't remember which Canadian school they use for licensing purposes, but I know they can do it plus it's easy to get into and they have a decent reputation in MI.  Good luck.

I'm confused about that statement of not being able to practice in Canada with a US legal education.  If that poster really is interested in practicing in Canada, he/she should really check into this.  I was at Cooley for a year and a significant portion of my 1L class were Canadians who intended to practice in Canada upon graduation.  I never really asked anything about what had to be done, but people do come to the US from Canada to get a legal education intending to practice in Canada down the road (how, I just don't know).   That's a very long way of saying if someone truly were interested in this, they should look it up. 
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: Hamilton on December 07, 2010, 01:49:53 PM
I too had folks in my class who were Canadian and planned on practicing in Canada after graduation. 
Title: Re: Cooley with 50% scholarship to MSU with nothing worth it
Post by: fortook on December 07, 2010, 05:20:20 PM
I don't know too much, I will tell you what I know.  I'd imagine that the OP knows more because he wants to practice in Can.  Firstly, Canada makes it incredibly difficult for foreign lawyers to practice in Can with residency restrictions, however, everything varies by province, just like in the states.  Secondly, in the US we get a JD, in Can it's a LLB- two different degrees.  If you went to a US law school they have a bar committee that evaluates your transcript class by class and tells you what you need to make up at a Can school.  Thirdly, and I am not entirely sure of the details, but Can attorneys have an apprenticeship like system where new law school grads and attorneys new to Can practice (even if they have been practicing in the US for 50 years) work under the supervision of a licensed attorney.  Maybe kind of like we do it in the States, but more formalized. 

Can. is mostly a common law country, like most of the US is common law, so the legal systems are similar.  But that's not to say they are not different.  I do know that it is easier for a Can lawyer to practice in the States than it is for a US lawyer to practice in Can.  If Cooley has a lot of Can students they probably have classes which have already been evaluated by the CBA.  That's not to say it isn't easier for Canadians to just go to a Can school if you can get a high enough LSAT score.  When I mentioned UDM I meant that in conjunction with a Can law school you can get an LLB in addition to your JD, thus bypassing the evaluation process and thus not being forced to take more classes after graduation, if you can even get into a Can law school for more courses.  I hope this helps.  I don't plan on practicing in Can (living in Quebec though would be nice, I admit) so my info might not be entirely accurate, just a gist.