Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: Drowning on January 20, 2009, 09:05:18 AM

Title: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Drowning on January 20, 2009, 09:05:18 AM
I got a 2.0 last semester, straight C's. I go to a law school ranked in the 30s - 40s. I got in because I took very easy classes in undergrad and I happen to take standardized tests well.
I didn't try particularly hard until finals came around and generally struggled to pay attention in class.  I would go weeks at a time in classes like civ pro where I wouldn't even take notes.  I really don't hate law school because I find that I have tons of free time outside of class to do the stuff that I like to do.  I generally don't believe that I can bring my grades up to even a 3.0 although I do think if I worked a little harder I could manage some   I'm just generally freaked out that I have no passion for law school material and I really don't know that I will even like being a lawyer. 
Considering I will probably leave law school about 150,000 in debt, I'm thinking my best option is to just cut my losses now or if they will let me, take a leave of absence for a year and figure out what I want to do.  To be honest, I don't know what I want to do.  I came to law school because I thought I would make a good lawyer but now I feel like I keep going blindly ahead I would be making a big mistake.  I also came to law school because I wasn't ready for the real world. I understand that I could still graduate with bad grades, pass the bar and make maybe 60,000 a year but I'm wondering if this is the right thing for me.  I'm just in a panicked state right now and I'm also wondering if this is par for the course for students after their 1L semester.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on January 20, 2009, 09:37:53 AM
What's the curve at your school?
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Drowning on January 20, 2009, 09:47:29 AM
3.0, making me pretty much at the bottom of the class considering D's are rarely given
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Refused Party Program on January 20, 2009, 10:15:37 AM
I'm just generally freaked out that I have no passion for law school material and I really don't know that I will even like being a lawyer. 

I also came to law school because I wasn't ready for the real world.


I think these two statements say a lot more than your grades. Having bad grades but still liking the law and thinking you will enjoy law practice is one thing. Here, you are basically saying that you are willing to take on a bunch of debt and enter a career you most likely will not like because you aren't ready for the real world.

If you don't like law school, it is going to be hard for you to do significantly better. Improving grades is absolutely something that can be done, but I think you have to enjoy leaning about the law to pull it off.

I know it may seem depressing to quit something you started, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea. If you can take a leave of absence, that might be the best thing. You can go out in the "real world" and maybe find something you like better. Or, maybe you will recharge and come back ready and excited to learn the law.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: linquest on January 20, 2009, 02:01:31 PM
No, that isn't "par for the course for students after their 1L semester".  Don't drop out because of your grades.  Drop out because it's not something you're interested in enough to waste your time and money on.  Life is too short.  Figure out what you really want to do with your life and move on.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Jolie Was Here on January 20, 2009, 02:48:22 PM
Two of my best friends went straight to law school after undergrad, hated it, and dropped out after a semester. One was doing very well (7th in her class after 1st semester), one was doing somewhat poorly. That was 10 or 11 years ago (yes, I'm Old) and they've both gone on to have lovely, fulfilling lives. Sure, paying the debt from a semester of expensive school that didn't end up yielding a degree sucked, but I don't believe that either has ever regretted the decision to pull the plug.

I personally think that that year or so after college is one of the more difficult in our lives. It's tempting to avoid the big questions by aimlessly continuing your education until answers, like, fall out of the sky or something. And frankly, that works for some people. For me, it made much more sense to just get out there and face it all.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: DCLabor25 on January 21, 2009, 08:50:32 PM
I agree with what everyone else has already said.  I didn't go straight through and I am very happy that I worked for awhile -- it gave me A LOT more perspective on life and my prior job also gave me a very good idea of the type of law that I want to practice someday.

I'd also say this -- there are FAR easier ways to make say $60K a year than sit through three years of law school and rack up $150K in debt.  You might be surprised at what non-legal employers are willing to pay talented employees (not every career has a glut like the law does)

Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Domdude on January 22, 2009, 06:28:26 AM
   If you don't know what you want to do I would say don't drop out.  Even if you KNOW you don't want to be a litigator, don't drop out.  A law degree will only increase the number of potential jobs you could have.  Don't look at it as a huge financial burden, look at it as a really expensive key that can open up alot of doors in whatever your future career might be.
   Graduating with a law degree from a good school, even if you finsih in the bottom 5%, will impress alot of employers.  Not everyone in law school gets grades above the curve, if that were the case then there would be no bottom of the class.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: vap on January 22, 2009, 07:05:43 AM
   Graduating with a law degree from a good school, even if you finsih in the bottom 5%, will impress alot of employers.

From a top 10 school maybe.  I wouldn't be impressed by a student at a 30-40 school who is in the bottom 5%.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on January 22, 2009, 07:07:29 AM
That is not a smart financial decision.  Looking at it as a key doesn't do anything about the reality of two more years of foregone income (even if OP makes $40k in those two years, that's $80k), the chance to get on the ladder at another job two years earlier for pay raises/seniority, and and additional five semesters of debt for both school and living expenses. And it's not just the flat debt cost if you're paying it back at interest over 10 years.  OP needs to bust out his calculator to see if it's worth it to him before looking at anything metaphorically in the hopes it will open more doors.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Domdude on January 22, 2009, 10:32:29 AM
Alright, so are you saying that there's no point to going to law school if you finish at the bottom of your class? Why? because its expensive?  Last time I checked undergrad was pretty expensive as well and to tell someone to not go to college if they're going to be at the bottom of the class is riddiculous
  Granted I realize your class rank may be more important in LS, but is it your contention that barely passing law school will lead to a unfruitful career?  Ya the great jobs are going to be reserved for those at the top of the class, but theres a reason 1/2 the class doesnt drop out after 1L.  Because there is plenty of jobs out there for unstellar students, ya you're not gonna be makin 80-100k a year, but getting a job will be a lot easier than your buddies with a bachelors degree.
   As far as potential job opprituinites, and SFPD's points, 1) I never said "non-legal" employer, all I said is theres alot of jobs out there besides being a litigator where a legal backround will be either required or useful 2) Even if were talking non-legal, a law degree shows an employer that you have an ability to comprehend and analyze material that the guy with the bachelors might not have and 3) As far as the employer thinking you couldn't "hack" it, I'm sure that could be explained in an interview
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Jolie Was Here on January 22, 2009, 10:53:35 AM
Alright, so are you saying that there's no point to going to law school if you finish at the bottom of your class?

No, we're saying that there's no point in finishing law school if after 1 semester you already know in your heart it's not the right career path for you AND you're at the bottom of your class. Yes, it's true that the 1L curriculum is very tilted toward litigationish work, but the OP doesn't seem to have any interest in studying law. That's different than not wanting to litigate.

Why?

Like I said . . .
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on January 22, 2009, 10:55:35 AM
It sounds like OP has no desire to be a lawyer.  As a society we view UG as intrinsically valuable, but the difference in pay with a degree vs. without is much higher over a lifetime than law degree (from bottom of the class) to without.  I'm not suggesting that everyone in the bottom of the class drop out.  I am suggesting that OP, who doesn't really want to be a lawyer/be in law school/just went for having nothing else to do, should seriously consider dropping out. 

Assuming OP has no undergrad debt (which could be a big assumption), $150k in law school loan debt would require about $200k in total repayments over 10 years.  OP's monthly payment will be $1726 over 10 years, and the financial aid calculator suggests that he needs an annual salary of $200k to pay it back while living comfortably.  If OP uses 15% of salary to pay it back, OP still needs $150k salary to live comfortably.

Add in the foregone income of between $40-60k per year for 2.5 more years -- $100k-150k.  Law school will thus cost the OP $300-350k, and OP will need a biglaw salary to pay back the loans while living comfortably.  This doesn't even factor in the opportunity for OP being 2.5 years higher on the job rung ladder by dropping out and getting a job now.  If OP drops out now, OP could be in a much better financial position.

Maybe the sacrifices are worth it if you really want to be a lawyer, but if you don't, then you should damn sure think twice about graduating at the bottom of the class and hoping to make $150k starting. 
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Big Time Lawyer on January 23, 2009, 12:44:57 AM
It sounds like OP has no desire to be a lawyer.  As a society we view UG as intrinsically valuable, but the difference in pay with a degree vs. without is much higher over a lifetime than law degree (from bottom of the class) to without.  I'm not suggesting that everyone in the bottom of the class drop out.  I am suggesting that OP, who doesn't really want to be a lawyer/be in law school/just went for having nothing else to do, should seriously consider dropping out. 

Assuming OP has no undergrad debt (which could be a big assumption), $150k in law school loan debt would require about $200k in total repayments over 10 years.  OP's monthly payment will be $1726 over 10 years, and the financial aid calculator suggests that he needs an annual salary of $200k to pay it back while living comfortably.  If OP uses 15% of salary to pay it back, OP still needs $150k salary to live comfortably.

Add in the foregone income of between $40-60k per year for 2.5 more years -- $100k-150k.  Law school will thus cost the OP $300-350k, and OP will need a biglaw salary to pay back the loans while living comfortably.  This doesn't even factor in the opportunity for OP being 2.5 years higher on the job rung ladder by dropping out and getting a job now.  If OP drops out now, OP could be in a much better financial position.

Maybe the sacrifices are worth it if you really want to be a lawyer, but if you don't, then you should damn sure think twice about graduating at the bottom of the class and hoping to make $150k starting. 

I'll have to disagree with you on a few points.

First, if you take out $150,000 in federal loans (Stafford and Grad Plus) at a rate of $50,000 per year (so your actual debt at graduation is more than $150k), your monthly payments will be around $2,000 on a 10-year re-payment term.

Second, most lenders offer re-payment terms of up to 20 years for large debts, allowing for monthly payments of around $1,400.

Third, even at $2,000/mo, you don't need $200k per year to live comfortably.  If you make $200,000 per year, you will take home about $120-130k after taxes (federal income, state income, social security, medicare, unemployment) without any deductions, exemptions, or credits.  That comes out to $8k to $10k per MONTH, after making your loan payments.  You don't need $8k to $10k per month to live "comfortably," by any reasonable interpretation of the word.

[I'm not sure which "financial aid calculator" you used, but it's always a good idea to check the numbers for yourself before posting them.  Not to do so is like copying-and-pasting a summer associate's work product into a motion without checking the research.]

Fourth, if the OP takes a job working for the government (at any level) or for a qualified non-profit organization, the OP can take advantage of the College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 1997.  At an adjusted gross income of $50,000, monthly loan payments for that $150k debt would only be $430/month, and the entire balance of the loan (principal + interest) will be canceled after 10 years.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Big Time Lawyer on January 23, 2009, 01:00:17 AM
I got a 2.0 last semester, straight C's. I go to a law school ranked in the 30s - 40s. I got in because I took very easy classes in undergrad and I happen to take standardized tests well.
I didn't try particularly hard until finals came around and generally struggled to pay attention in class.  I would go weeks at a time in classes like civ pro where I wouldn't even take notes.  I really don't hate law school because I find that I have tons of free time outside of class to do the stuff that I like to do.  I generally don't believe that I can bring my grades up to even a 3.0 although I do think if I worked a little harder I could manage some   I'm just generally freaked out that I have no passion for law school material and I really don't know that I will even like being a lawyer. 
Considering I will probably leave law school about 150,000 in debt, I'm thinking my best option is to just cut my losses now or if they will let me, take a leave of absence for a year and figure out what I want to do.  To be honest, I don't know what I want to do.  I came to law school because I thought I would make a good lawyer but now I feel like I keep going blindly ahead I would be making a big mistake.  I also came to law school because I wasn't ready for the real world. I understand that I could still graduate with bad grades, pass the bar and make maybe 60,000 a year but I'm wondering if this is the right thing for me.  I'm just in a panicked state right now and I'm also wondering if this is par for the course for students after their 1L semester.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Hey Drowning,

Any time you ever feel down, think about the majority of people in this world that are wondering how they will put food on the table for their children, much less themselves.  "Poverty" in the United States is nothing compared to poverty in the global community.

Think about what you really want to do for a career.  As others have mentioned, there are both disadvantages and advantages to going to law school straight from undergrad.  In my view, one of the disadvantages is a lack of appreciation for the real working world.  Most people don't get to sit in an office in a relatively clean environment doing paperwork. 

Think about that the next time you pass a factory late at night, a police officer walking around in the rain, a construction worker covered in dust in the wee hours of the morning, a janitor cleaning toilet bowls, or the ever-standing sales clerk that rings up your purchase in the evening.

On the other hand, while law school is a great opportunity, one that most people in the world and even in this country will never have, it is not for everyone.  Only you know what's best for yourself, if you truly dig down deep and carefully analyze yourself.  However, you have only spent one semester in law school.  That first semester is not reflective of actual law practice (especially the transactional side), or even the substance of your future chosen law specialty.

What other careers would you pursue if you quit law school?
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: 1L2011 on January 23, 2009, 07:26:10 AM
Im in the same boat, got 2 B- grades back so far on a 3.0 curve. But I like the law and Im just gonna adjust and give it another shot this semester.

Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: TheDudeMan on January 23, 2009, 07:54:14 AM
2 B-'s on a 3.0 curve isn't that big of a deal.  One B+ or A- can pop you right back up.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: 1L2011 on January 23, 2009, 07:59:41 AM
2 B-'s on a 3.0 curve isn't that big of a deal.  One B+ or A- can pop you right back up.

yeah Im not at some world beater school like a lot of the people here. Im at a school ranked 60-80. Im just freaked out and shocked. But yeah I guess you right, I just prob wont get a paying job this summer.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: TheDudeMan on January 23, 2009, 08:03:37 AM
As a 1L you had a very small chance of getting a paying job anyways at a school in the 60-80's. Heck, even in the top 20 you would have to be higher up in rank for that.

Just get experience this summer, smash your grades in the spring and be ready for Fall OCI.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on January 23, 2009, 08:12:20 AM
I was posting the numbers as a rough guide.   My suggestion is that it's quite possible that dropping out is the rational economic decision and that OP needs to sit down with the numbers.  Even with a 20-year term (who the hell wants that?), student loan debt should not take more than 10-15% of your income.  In which case OP needs to make between 90-137k. Going to law school is supposed to bring you something that you want that you wouldn't have already in order to be a real benefit. I'd put that down as a higher standard of living; OP doesn't seem to have a particularly strong desire to be a lawyer at all, much less a public interest lawyer making peanuts or paying tens of thousands of dollars a year in interest and principal in order to live like a grad student.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Miss P on January 23, 2009, 11:40:12 AM
student loan debt should not take more than 10-15% of your income. 

While I generally agree with you that the OP should think carefully about whether s/he wants to be a lawyer and think through the economics of the decision, I have to question this figure.  First, most young lawyers I know pay much more than 10-15% of their income in loan payments.  Second, it really depends on your income, doesn't it?  I think it makes much more sense to figure out what take-home income would make you reasonably comfortable and assume that whatever is left is fair game for loan payments.  Not that it's particularly relevant to this thread's topic, but if you're making $165K + (half or full) bonus, there's no reason you can't make $2K/month payments, and in this economy (with low investment and savings prospects, declining housing costs, and high job insecurity), you should probably pay much more.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on January 23, 2009, 11:58:08 AM
This is where I got it from.  http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

Feel free to argue with it.  Still think a 2.0 doesn't bring stellar job prospects and that $150k+ is a pretty crushing amount of debt for something that doesn't substantially improve your position.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Miss P on January 23, 2009, 12:06:34 PM
Feel free to argue with it.  Still think a 2.0 doesn't bring stellar job prospects and that $150k+ is a pretty crushing amount of debt for something that doesn't substantially improve your position.

I didn't mean to be captious.  I just don't think the figure makes a lot of sense, especially in the current economy.  (Of course, I am really arguing that you should pay a higher percentage of your income toward your debt if you make a lot of money and not that it's a good idea to take on a higher debt load so that your scheduled payments would be higher.  You and I may actually be agreeing.)

I also totally agree with you about the OP's situation.  OP, as many others have suggested, if you don't want to be a lawyer, or aren't sure, get out or take a leave.  This is not a good start in a competitive field.  Law, in general, is a high-cost, low-return investment that doesn't make for a great fallback or default option.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on January 23, 2009, 12:24:45 PM
FWIW, I do agree with you.  I am planning to repay early, depending on interest rates. But it's much easier to do that at close to $200k salary with a (generally) stable upward trend than with a job pays even $60-70k.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Miss P on January 23, 2009, 12:32:42 PM
FWIW, I do agree with you.  I am planning to repay early, depending on interest rates. But it's much easier to do that at close to $200k salary with a (generally) stable upward trend than with a job pays even $60-70k.

Oh, of course!  ITA.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: inspectionstare on January 23, 2009, 06:53:30 PM
I have basically the exact same story as you. I made the tough decision and dropped out of law school. I realized that being a lawyer was going to be a *&^% life, and very few people were actually 'wired' to enjoy legal work. I definitely am not one of them. Since dropping out (only a few months ago, dropped out mid semester from the U of U) I've got a job with an internet marketing firm and I love it. I can guarantee I'll end up being better financially off because I'm doing something that fits me.

I found law school to be a joke. The case method of learning is the biggest *ucking sham I've ever run into. I quickly realized that I was under a massive delusion that law and law school was some admirable thing, when in fact it's just not true. Law school was a joke, and people who really love studying the law are by nature a little backwards. 

I'm not trying to persuade either way, just trying to lend a helping hand. Quitting law school was the best decision I could have made. I can't imagine 'sticking it out.' It would have been absolutely ridiculous for me to do that.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Tetris on January 23, 2009, 07:05:28 PM
inspectionstare:  What are you doing browsing a Students & Graduates thread on LSD if you are out of law school? 
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: TTom on January 23, 2009, 08:20:51 PM
I have basically the exact same story as you. I made the tough decision and dropped out of law school. I realized that being a lawyer was going to be a poo life, and very few people were actually 'wired' to enjoy legal work. I definitely am not one of them. Since dropping out (only a few months ago, dropped out mid semester from the U of U) I've got a job with an internet marketing firm and I love it. I can guarantee I'll end up being better financially off because I'm doing something that fits me.

I found law school to be a joke. The case method of learning is the biggest *ucking sham I've ever run into. I quickly realized that I was under a massive delusion that law and law school was some admirable thing, when in fact it's just not true. Law school was a joke, and people who really love studying the law are by nature a little backwards. 

I'm not trying to persuade either way, just trying to lend a helping hand. Quitting law school was the best decision I could have made. I can't imagine 'sticking it out.' It would have been absolutely ridiculous for me to do that.

I'm glad you dropped out too!
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: MidWesternPleb on January 27, 2009, 02:03:24 AM
inspectionstare is making friends with the law school kids

OP sounds like he flat-out doesn't even enjoy law school.  2.0 and don't enjoy it?  Drop out.  2.0 and enjoy it and know you'll enjoy life as a lawyer?  Yeah, it's possible to rebound a to a certain degree.  Go for it.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Ninja1 on January 27, 2009, 08:26:32 AM
   Graduating with a law degree from a good school, even if you finsih in the bottom 5%, will impress alot of employers.

From a top 10 school maybe.  I wouldn't be impressed by a student at a 30-40 school who is in the bottom 5%.

I think non-legal jobs will usually be sufficiently impressed with a law degree from almost anywhere, let alone a name brand school, regardless of grades. Even at the undergrad level, I saw a ton of people that got piss poor grades get good jobs just by virtue of having a BA. Of course, this does bring up the "why go to law school if you're not trying to be a lawyer" argument...
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on January 27, 2009, 08:38:52 AM
Yeah, it's tough to advise OP to stay in law school solely for a potential resume bump with non-legal jobs...
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Ninja1 on January 28, 2009, 10:04:29 AM
Yeah, it's tough to advise OP to stay in law school solely for a potential resume bump with non-legal jobs...

Agreed, but I think it is a fair point to consider.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: RonSantoRules on January 28, 2009, 10:31:06 AM
Yeah, it's tough to advise OP to stay in law school solely for a potential resume bump with non-legal jobs...

Agreed, but I think it is a fair point to consider.

Bad advice. You will only be overqualified for jobs that you could have got anyways without a J.D. and will have to convince employers that they should hire you IN SPITE of you having a J.D. If you don't believe me, check out the authors of the blog Barely Legal. There are some posts on there about one of the authors who pursued a non-legal career and met a lot of resistance because of his J.D.

Here is a great post from the author about how a JD still makes you an entry level candidate and the resistance he had to overcome to get a non-legal job: http://barelylegalblog.blogspot.com/2007/04/finding-non-legal-job.html
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: TheDudeMan on January 28, 2009, 11:06:21 AM
While I agree with the above poster.... Barely legal is hardly a reputable source.  It was two dudes that went to a TTT and graduated bottom half of their class.  Do you really expect much there?
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Jolie Was Here on January 28, 2009, 11:41:34 AM
While I agree with the above poster.... Barely legal is hardly a reputable source.  It was two dudes that went to a TTT and graduated bottom half of their class.  Do you really expect much there?
But that's the position the OP finds himself in (aside from the very obvious fact that being in the bottom of the class after one semester does not guarantee that you'll be there after six).
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 28, 2009, 12:12:36 PM
Two of my best friends went straight to law school after undergrad, hated it, and dropped out after a semester. One was doing very well (7th in her class after 1st semester), one was doing somewhat poorly. That was 10 or 11 years ago (yes, I'm Old) and they've both gone on to have lovely, fulfilling lives. Sure, paying the debt from a semester of expensive school that didn't end up yielding a degree sucked, but I don't believe that either has ever regretted the decision to pull the plug.

I personally think that that year or so after college is one of the more difficult in our lives. It's tempting to avoid the big questions by aimlessly continuing your education until answers, like, fall out of the sky or something. And frankly, that works for some people. For me, it made much more sense to just get out there and face it all.

This sentence is actually one of the best I've ever read on this forum, and I've been on here since the summer before my LSAT.  Kudos to you.  Very well said.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on January 28, 2009, 12:18:17 PM
I have basically the exact same story as you. I made the tough decision and dropped out of law school. I realized that being a lawyer was going to be a poo life, and very few people were actually 'wired' to enjoy legal work. I definitely am not one of them. Since dropping out (only a few months ago, dropped out mid semester from the U of U) I've got a job with an internet marketing firm and I love it. I can guarantee I'll end up being better financially off because I'm doing something that fits me.

I found law school to be a joke. The case method of learning is the biggest *ucking sham I've ever run into. I quickly realized that I was under a massive delusion that law and law school was some admirable thing, when in fact it's just not true. Law school was a joke, and people who really love studying the law are by nature a little backwards. 

I'm not trying to persuade either way, just trying to lend a helping hand. Quitting law school was the best decision I could have made. I can't imagine 'sticking it out.' It would have been absolutely ridiculous for me to do that.

The scary thing is that I generally agree with you.  It's not a very effective way to learn the BLL and prepare for your exams, despite the fact that your professors crush you through it.

I'm glad that someone like you hangs around this forum.  As law students or even young lawyers, we're biased to see law school solutions for people.  In many cases, that's absolutely not true.  Law school is not for everyone.  Not everyone can be ranked, and likes to argue, and can see themselves doing menial grunt work for years before gaining traction in a competitive and prestige-fixated field. 

My engineering friends still don't understand why your school is so important.  They know good engineers from CUNY and bad engineers from MIT; hiring isn't exactly interested in either.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: fertsru on January 28, 2009, 01:17:37 PM
I have basically the exact same story as you. I made the tough decision and dropped out of law school. I realized that being a lawyer was going to be a poo life, and very few people were actually 'wired' to enjoy legal work. I definitely am not one of them. Since dropping out (only a few months ago, dropped out mid semester from the U of U) I've got a job with an internet marketing firm and I love it. I can guarantee I'll end up being better financially off because I'm doing something that fits me.

I found law school to be a joke. The case method of learning is the biggest *ucking sham I've ever run into. I quickly realized that I was under a massive delusion that law and law school was some admirable thing, when in fact it's just not true. Law school was a joke, and people who really love studying the law are by nature a little backwards. 

I'm not trying to persuade either way, just trying to lend a helping hand. Quitting law school was the best decision I could have made. I can't imagine 'sticking it out.' It would have been absolutely ridiculous for me to do that.

My sincere congratulations to you! I just recently heard a similar story from an old attorney. Many years ago he and his childhood buddy were working at UPS. He continued thru college, then law school. His buddy dropped out of college and went to work for UPS full time. He eventually became a regional manager and then retired at 47 with several millions in the bank, while the attorney is still working and not even close to having millions in retirement.

Unfortunately, I don't see myself becoming a manager of any big corporation any time soon, so I am going to stick with law school for now. This way I know I'll be able to find a decent paying job, instead of gambling on my career.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Ninja1 on February 02, 2009, 05:29:17 PM
Yeah, it's tough to advise OP to stay in law school solely for a potential resume bump with non-legal jobs...

Agreed, but I think it is a fair point to consider.

Bad advice. You will only be overqualified for jobs that you could have got anyways without a J.D. and will have to convince employers that they should hire you IN SPITE of you having a J.D. If you don't believe me, check out the authors of the blog Barely Legal. There are some posts on there about one of the authors who pursued a non-legal career and met a lot of resistance because of his J.D.

Here is a great post from the author about how a JD still makes you an entry level candidate and the resistance he had to overcome to get a non-legal job: http://barelylegalblog.blogspot.com/2007/04/finding-non-legal-job.html

People feel threatened by individuals that are measurably smarter than him.

Yeah, no McPloyment is in your future if you have a JD, but I can think of plenty of folks with JDs that are in non-legal fields and do very well for themselves.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on February 02, 2009, 07:34:06 PM
"My engineering friends still don't understand why your school is so important.  They know good engineers from CUNY and bad engineers from MIT; hiring isn't exactly interested in either."

I really don't think that's true, at least when it comes to engineering jobs at the higher end of the spectrum.  Engineering is more nuts-and-bolts practical than law, but prestige still matters.  You can be a top engineer with a degree from anywhere in the same way you can get to be partner at Cravath with a JD from Fordham (there are 3, last time I checked).  That is, you have to prove that you're awesome.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Ninja1 on February 03, 2009, 08:49:38 AM
"My engineering friends still don't understand why your school is so important.  They know good engineers from CUNY and bad engineers from MIT; hiring isn't exactly interested in either."

I really don't think that's true, at least when it comes to engineering jobs at the higher end of the spectrum.  Engineering is more nuts-and-bolts practical than law, but prestige still matters.  You can be a top engineer with a degree from anywhere in the same way you can get to be partner at Cravath with a JD from Fordham (there are 3, last time I checked).  That is, you have to prove that you're awesome.

As usual, your school (and grades) don't matter much once you've been practicing for a little while. But the school and grades sure do help get you in the door.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Stole Your Nose! on February 03, 2009, 09:00:41 AM
They still kind of matter.  More the school, less the grades.  Especially if you're trying to shift geographic areas.
Title: Re: 2.0 - Should I drop out?
Post by: Ninja1 on February 03, 2009, 12:51:24 PM
They still kind of matter.  More the school, less the grades.  Especially if you're trying to shift geographic areas.

Agreed.