Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 07, 2008, 11:08:18 AM

Title: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 07, 2008, 11:08:18 AM
 :-[
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Miss P on December 07, 2008, 11:20:15 AM
Wally, you're going to be fine.  My advice is that you chill out a bit.  If you really haven't been doing your casebook reading, it might be a good idea to read some of the cases and notes to internalize the modes of legal analysis to which your professors hoped to expose you.  Otherwise, you seem very prepared.  Exams are a little unpredictable, but you're smart and you've done more prepping than most people, and I'm sure you'll do at least reasonably well.  The worst thing that could happen at this point is burnout or freakout, so just try to avoid either.  Really.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 07, 2008, 11:26:32 AM
Thanks, Miss P -- ever wise.

:)

I did just take a practice exam in which I botched an entire issue because I thought 12(e) could be in an answer -- it can't, because that would defeat the entire point of asking for more particulars -- but, hopefully, that'll teach me a lesson about looking up an unfamiliar rule.

I also botched more minor stuff with Rule 4 and waivers, but it wasn't botched so much as missed.  Apparently, if the defendant doesn't return the waiver, the plaintiff is again responsible for service within the 120 days.  (I also forgot about 4(m)).
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Miss P on December 07, 2008, 11:30:53 AM
Rule 4 is a wolf in sheep's clothing, for sure. :)
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 11:36:09 AM
::reassures everyone::
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 12:05:13 PM
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

wait, is that not helping?  sorry.

There have been days this week where I've believed death would be a blessing.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: crow on December 07, 2008, 12:06:21 PM
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4622/deadnanamg8.gif)
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Miss P on December 07, 2008, 12:07:44 PM
Go to the movies or something, kids, seriously!
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 12:09:00 PM
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

wait, is that not helping?  sorry.

There have been days this week where I've believed death would be a blessing.

kind of melodramatic there, don't you think?

Eh, don't worry about it.  Hyperbole has long been one of my main coping mechanisms.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Miss P on December 07, 2008, 12:13:18 PM
Me too, obvs.

I mean, to the extent that I cope.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 12:18:45 PM
Eh, don't worry about it.  Hyperbole has long been one of my main coping mechanisms.

my main coping mechanism is dumping the crazy on LSD.

Obviously, I make use of multiple coping mechanisms.  See: my increased post count, activities of Friday night.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 07, 2008, 12:41:02 PM
Look, everyone just calm down, take a deep breath, it will be fine. Think about this to help calm yourselves: everything you have been working for the last few years is completely decided by how you do on you these first exams. If you donít ace it you will never find a job, you will have to declare bankruptcy, you will be doing dock review for $3.82 an hour. Your entire future, the rest of your lives, your very worth as a human being depends on how well you do on this first set of exams. Botch it, and you canít recover your GPA/rank will forever suck, your LR dreams are out, no OCI offers, you will likely lose your scholarship and your parents will be so disappointed in they will cry. Now, see, its not that bad when you put it into perspective.  Always look on the bright side I say.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 12:47:14 PM
Look, everyone just calm down, take a deep breath, it will be fine. Think about this to help calm yourselves: everything you have been working for the last few years is completely decided by how you do on you these first exams. If you donít ace it you will never find a job, you will have to declare bankruptcy, you will be doing dock review for $3.82 an hour. Your entire future, the rest of your lives, your very worth as a human being depends on how well you do on this first set of exams. Botch it, and you canít recover your GPA/rank will forever suck, your LR dreams are out, no OCI offers, you will likely lose your scholarship and your parents will be so disappointed in they will cry. Now, see, its not that bad when you put it into perspective.  Always look on the bright side I say.

you left out the part about the evil trolls emerging from their closets to feast on their flesh.

This is basically the scenario I'm envisioning. 
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: UFBoldAsLove on December 07, 2008, 12:48:12 PM
Look, everyone just calm down, take a deep breath, it will be fine. Think about this to help calm yourselves: everything you have been working for the last few years is completely decided by how you do on you these first exams. If you donít ace it you will never find a job, you will have to declare bankruptcy, you will be doing dock review for $3.82 an hour. Your entire future, the rest of your lives, your very worth as a human being depends on how well you do on this first set of exams. Botch it, and you canít recover your GPA/rank will forever suck, your LR dreams are out, no OCI offers, you will likely lose your scholarship and your parents will be so disappointed in they will cry. Now, see, its not that bad when you put it into perspective.  Always look on the bright side I say.

hehe this actually made me giggle. 

Oddly, it made me feel better and not worse :) 

p.s. my mommy will never be disappointed in me! 

Ditto.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 01:03:12 PM
This is basically the scenario I'm envisioning. 

you're too much.  :D

seriously though, all these 1L's returning come finals time...  hilarious.  never fails.

I was around, I just didn't post much.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 01:31:11 PM
So easily saddened today my dear tm. 

finals make me delusional.

oh look, the sun's out!

I was around, I just didn't post much.

lurking doesn't count.  :P

Well for awhile I got yelled at every time I posted.

And how are you a morning person?  You're always on here til like 2 AM.

I definitely am nocturnal.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 01:38:50 PM
Ha, not so much at all?

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll end up drooling just fine.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 07, 2008, 02:39:55 PM
Reassuring me about exams could have happened in last year's economy.  Not in this year's.

you should have gone to that ivy school penn state, now your screwed
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 07, 2008, 03:09:04 PM
Reassuring me about exams could have happened in last year's economy.  Not in this year's.

you should have gone to that ivy school penn state, now your screwed

mmmm Ivy... wish I could be at one of those schools...  ::)

Transfer?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 07, 2008, 03:24:12 PM
I can totally see you sitting across from each other at the same table not talking except on LSD
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: UFBoldAsLove on December 07, 2008, 03:41:46 PM
I was hoping there would still be reassuring things on this supposedly reassuring thread.  ;)

Right now I'm reassuring myself with a Frosty from the Wendys across from the law school... mmmmm.... :)
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 03:43:10 PM
When in doubt, eat your feelings  ;)
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: UFBoldAsLove on December 07, 2008, 03:47:55 PM
When in doubt, eat your feelings  ;)

Hahahaha I was actually going to say this in my last post.

So far I've managed to avoid whatever the law school equivalent of the Freshman 15, though.  ;)
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 03:50:50 PM
I've been drinking and hyperventilating a lot of my feelings lately.  Earlier this semester I ran them off, so I think it all evened out in the end.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 07, 2008, 03:53:29 PM
Can't.  Stop.  Thinking.  About 12(g) and 12(h) and their relation to the other pre-answer motions.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 04:00:20 PM
Yeah, I think I'm more in danger of ending up with the Post-Graduation Loan Repayment Visible Ribcage.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 04:21:05 PM
Oh, great, so I'll be poor AND fat.

::kill self::
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 04:25:13 PM
That was actually my rationale when I thought I was going to get a philosophy/critical theory doctorate.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 04:40:57 PM
Actually, closer than I thought it would be.  At least close enough that I don't feel totally like a fish out of water.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 05:05:34 PM
I'd like to think that, but as far as I can tell my knowledge of French Poststructuralism isn't going to do me a damn bit of good on issue spotters.

Theory/policy questions on a couple of my exams will hopefully work in my favor in terms of time management.  I can write that kind of stuff in my sleep.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 07, 2008, 05:14:53 PM
So far I've managed to avoid whatever the law school equivalent of the Freshman 15, though.  ;)

just watch out for the "Summer Associate 30."  ;)


30 is only for the biggest of BIGLAW where they fly in the unpasteurized cheese straight from Brittany, the caviar from Kamchatka and the pantries all have a Kahlua tap right next to the faucet. 

Most summer associates in the vault top 50 only gain around 15 lbs due to the fact that it's so damned hard to order anything at quiznos without a gratuitous slice of bacon on it.  In June they'll pick it off in disgust, in July they'll take a bite out of curiosity and throw the rest away but by August they'll just scarf the whole sandwich down, bacon and all, so they can get back to document review.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 07, 2008, 05:22:18 PM
This doesn't seem right.  All the SA's I've known at white-shoe firms say they go out for real (non-Quiznos) lunches almost every day.

Disclaimer:  I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.  I'm just having fun.

Now that we've gotten the honesty thang out of the way, let me respond to your post by saying:

NOT IN THIS ECONOMY!

(I try to use that phrase whenever possible)
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 05:32:51 PM
<--- just ordered pad thai for delivery, haven't walked farther than from my bedroom to my kitchen all day

::gains 100 lbs::
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 07, 2008, 05:37:11 PM
LOL.  For me, Pad Thai was Thursday. 
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 05:38:33 PM
<--- just ordered pad thai for delivery, haven't walked farther than from my bedroom to my kitchen all day

::gains 100 lbs::

so that brings your weight up to what, 190?

Nah, 200.  :-[
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 05:43:05 PM
I'm pushing 5'3", but yeah, pretty close.  I'm a munchkin.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 07, 2008, 05:47:23 PM
tm's actually under 5 ft, so be sensitive please.  he also might chaff at your "munchkin" reference given that he has a beard twice as long as he is tall. 

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 05:52:44 PM
I'm pushing 5'3", but yeah, pretty close.  I'm a munchkin.

that's not THAT short.

Yeah, I know.  Objectively, I'm neither super short nor super skinny, but I think the whole package just comes off as super tiny.  Or so I've been told.

tm's actually under 5 ft, so be sensitive please.  he also might chaff at your "munchkin" reference given that he has a beard twice as long as he is tall. 



Okay, this was hysterical.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 07, 2008, 05:58:46 PM
I already explained in a previous post that I'm full of sh*t.  What more do I have to do?

Okay, for the record, he could be perfectly hairless for all I know.  The only thing I know about him for sure is that he's under 5 ft tall.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 07, 2008, 06:26:18 PM


Can't we all just be friends?   ::)

said the small hunting dog to the fox...
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 06:52:15 PM
Can't we all just be friends?   ::)

said the small hunting dog to the fox...

i laughed.

See, this kid's a laugh riot.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 07, 2008, 08:22:57 PM
Can't we all just be friends?   ::)

said the small hunting dog to the fox...

i laughed.

 :'(

Don't cry, baby.  It'll be awright. 

I love you all. 

Especially the Penn guy. (imapenalumn)

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 07, 2008, 08:46:26 PM
this is painful to watch
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Miss P on December 07, 2008, 10:23:53 PM
***collegiality breakdown alert***
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 07, 2008, 10:28:18 PM
We're going to make it after all!

*throws hat in air*
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 07, 2008, 10:29:42 PM
We're going to make it after all!

*throws hat in air*

This needed documentation.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 08, 2008, 07:05:54 AM
We're going to make it after all!

*throws hat in air*

luls
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:03:52 AM
I feel so squiggy right now after botching a practice exam answer or too. 
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 08, 2008, 08:16:14 AM
I feel so squiggy right now after botching a practice exam answer or too. 

This, among other reasons, is why I have never done practice exams ever in law school
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 08:18:19 AM
I feel so squiggy right now after botching a practice exam answer or too. 

This, among other reasons, is why I have never done practice exams ever in law school

Wait, really?  I know that hasn't worked out too badly for you, either, please explain.

I actually found taking a practice test last night comforting.  I actually knew some stuff, which I didn't think was the case.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:19:18 AM
I feel so squiggy right now after botching a practice exam answer or too. 

This, among other reasons, is why I have never done practice exams ever in law school

Wow, that's brass.  I'm far too terrified to have done that.  I'm good, but I'm not that good.  Then again, I'm not really sure I'm good.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:21:16 AM
I feel so squiggy right now after botching a practice exam answer or too. 

This, among other reasons, is why I have never done practice exams ever in law school

Wait, really?  I know that hasn't worked out too badly for you, either, please explain.

I actually found taking a practice test last night comforting.  I actually knew some stuff, which I didn't think was the case.

I knew some stuff too, but had trouble making it into a coherent answer in the time allotted.  I ended up with a couple half paragraphs and the outline of a third with a liberal sprinkling of profanities.  I'll probably leave out the profanities tomorrow.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 08:23:12 AM
Maybe you should leave them.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:28:51 AM
Maybe you should leave them.

I promise to do so if I'm still convinced in 24 hours that I'm in bad shape.  I know you'll hold me to it.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 08, 2008, 08:38:13 AM
I feel so squiggy right now after botching a practice exam answer or too. 

This, among other reasons, is why I have never done practice exams ever in law school

Wait, really?  I know that hasn't worked out too badly for you, either, please explain.

I actually found taking a practice test last night comforting.  I actually knew some stuff, which I didn't think was the case.

I save it for the exam. I donít like doubting myself or comparing myself to other model answers. I study, I THINK through problems, but I have never, in 4 years, done a practice exam or even written out anything for non points given practice exams in class. I just save it for the exam and go. There is plenty of time afterwards to doubt myself, so I donít bother doing it before hand. I have no doubt there is benefit in it, but that is just not how I study. Plus I'm dyslexic, writing is a time consuming, frustrating, agonizing thing for me, i save that for when its worth something real. Iím best when I am not scripted, shoot from the hip and go with the flow. Itís just what works for me Ė donít try this at home kids.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:42:27 AM
If I shoot from the hip, I usually shoot my hip.

No matter the subject (I have graduate degrees in science), practicing is gold for me.  I go through six inevitable stages on the route to victory:  1) terror, 2) false sense of security, 3) slightly less acute terror,  4) resignation, 5) regret and 6) pleasant surprise.  I won't say it works every time, but I will say that I've never seen it work any other way.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 08:53:33 AM
I think it makes sense.  I'm actually glad I didn't do these earlier in the semester -- before I'd really gone over everything.  I had practice midterms in Property and Torts, and those sent me into paroxysms of anxiety.  But I'd only outlined/reviewed up through easements and cause-in-fact, so what did I expect?

That said, I'm still going to do practice problems.

So, tm, what's my assignment for today?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:57:03 AM
please assign her with the task of reassuring me of my inevitable triumph.  she needs to study no more, she has already destroyed several practice exams. 
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 09:01:45 AM
I think it makes sense.  I'm actually glad I didn't do these earlier in the semester -- before I'd really gone over everything.  I had practice midterms in Property and Torts, and those sent me into paroxysms of anxiety.  But I'd only outlined/reviewed up through easements and cause-in-fact, so what did I expect?

That said, I'm still going to do practice problems.

So, tm, what's my assignment for today?

what's your finals schedule look like again?  this format please:

date     exam     what you've done for it already     what you think you have left to do

12/10 -- Ks (closed book).  You know what I've done as of last night?  I have four good practice exam problems, I could probably use more review.

12/15 -- Property (open).  I'm 3/4+ the way through a REALLY spectacularly detailed outline that I've been doing from scratch.  Need to finish (would probably take a full day?), do the reading I skipped for the last class, and do practice exams.

12/18 -- Torts (open).  I have to finish outlining calculating damages, negligence defenses, and the very little products liability we got to, but this is easy because she provided a template and gives us summary presentations of each lecture/concept (so it's kinda already done for me).  I need to, uh, learn Torts.

Doable?  I think that today and tomorrow I need to spend at least a little time not on Ks both for sanity and to get *&^% done.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 09:09:24 AM
Yes. 

Should I go over outlines/notes again?  Or the hornbook?  Hmm.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 09:10:43 AM
ahem, tm.  shoot some reassurance my way or I will mock you like you've never been mocked before.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 09:13:07 AM
is "hornbook" a genl term for a supplementary text?  or are they all actually written by a guy named horn?

"ahem, tm.  shoot some reassurance my way or I will mock you like you've never been mocked before."

Okay, if my threats won't work then perhaps I can evoke sympathy.

 :'(
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 09:14:21 AM
No, we use the Farnsworth.  My prof is kinda obsessed with him, so I figured it was better not to veer off course.

The outlines were pretty good, although they're definitely outlines rather than explanations of stuff.  My notes were sort of disorganized because my prof was a terrible lecturer, but they were more detailed and I highlighted them so that should trim the fat a bit.

Whatever, I'll just go over everything.  
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 09:15:26 AM
erm, never mind.  why do I keep asking humans for information when mother wikipedia provides?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 09:16:48 AM
you give good advice, foxman.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 08, 2008, 09:24:25 AM
I feel so squiggy right now after botching a practice exam answer or too. 

This, among other reasons, is why I have never done practice exams ever in law school

Wait, really?  I know that hasn't worked out too badly for you, either, please explain.

I actually found taking a practice test last night comforting.  I actually knew some stuff, which I didn't think was the case.

I save it for the exam. I donít like doubting myself or comparing myself to other model answers. I study, I THINK through problems, but I have never, in 4 years, done a practice exam or even written out anything for non points given practice exams in class. I just save it for the exam and go. There is plenty of time afterwards to doubt myself, so I donít bother doing it before hand. I have no doubt there is benefit in it, but that is just not how I study. Plus I'm dyslexic, writing is a time consuming, frustrating, agonizing thing for me, i save that for when its worth something real. Iím best when I am not scripted, shoot from the hip and go with the flow. Itís just what works for me Ė donít try this at home kids.

to reiterate, this is NOT generally applicable advice.  sometimes (usually?) matthies says stuff that applies to everyone.  this is not one of those times.

Yes, like I said, donít try this at home. But I think the underlying point in this, and one I would say is applicable to everyone, is that key to doing well in law school is quickly find the method that works best for you. Everything else is secondary, most of the 1st semester, and much of 1L in my view is all about learning a new way to think and be tested, and hece how YOU best ready yourself for that. The quicker you can figure out what methods do, or do not work for you, the better off you will be. There is a lot of good advice about how to study in law school, but not all of it is going to be applicable to everyone, find what works best for you then disregard what others tell you that you should be doing if it does not. A lot of people spend a lot of time just spinning their wheels because they think they should be doing this or that because everyone around them is doing this or that. Just do what works for you (and finding what this is is what 1L is all about in my view), if thatís practice questions great, if not great, in the end the only thing that matters is that which works for the individual.  

Law school can and will, if you left it, destroy your ability to think creatively on your own. I think, for me, practice questions re-enforce that, donít be creative be the SAME. Its counter intuitive to what they are supposed to be teaching you in law school, to think like a lawyer, but it tends to lead many people to think and act just like everyone else around them. Precedent is a good thing in the law, becoming an automaton law student slavishly devoted to doing it this way purely because everyone before you did it this way is not. This is in part why I rail against the idea of placing all your eggs in the OCI basket, law students tend to follow, even a path that is counter intuitive to their own success just because that is what everyone else did. They stop thinking, if you will, outside the box, because they have become so well trained at not doing anything differently than their peers.

AGAIN< THIS IS JUST ME< BE YOURSELF
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 09:30:37 AM
I agree with everything you said, both in principle and in practice.  However, isn't it best to break away from the herd after you've paid off your law school debt?  Otherwise you might find yourself in a 5 lawyer shop in suburban Topeka enlightening local judges with your unconventional take on Kansas laws governing trailer park zoning and armadillo poaching.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 08, 2008, 09:59:38 AM
I agree with everything you said, both in principle and in practice.  However, isn't it best to break away from the heard after you've paid off your law school debt?  Otherwise you might find yourself in a 5 lawyer shop in suburban Topeka enlightening local judges with your unconventional take on Kansas laws governing trailer park zoning and armadillo poaching.

Not necessarily. Think about this way you just spent the last semester learning about how the law has evolved. How one rule was the norm, then the court changed that law to a new law, often completely different from the law that existed before. Society changes, the rules change, and what you donít see in applet decisions that we read is case books is the original arguments lawyers made to change the law. Its very easy, even though you have just spent the entire semester learning about the evolution of the law to think that now, today, at this moment the law is static. Its not. The law is ever evolving, thatís the common law system, but we tend to ignore that and think today, the law is settled. Its never settled if it was we would not need lawyers.

Unfortunately what makes a straight A law students, the ability to recite the law as currently stands to a hypo, does not necessarily make a good lawyer. Clients donít come to you just to recite the law, they come to you to apply the law to their particular facts and make arguemnts on thier behalf, sometimes when the law is against them in all respects. Sometimes that means making arguments to change the law, for the law to evolve. Something that, if not practice on your own, law school will rob from you. How we teach the law is not how we practice the law. Good lawyers never say to themselves this is the law, it will never change, so my case will all ways end up losing or winning. That mindset forgets that the law evolves and the lawyers job is to be an advocate for that change or status quoe, as it befits their clients case. We lose that by not reading the arguments lawyers make, but the de novo review of the applenat court. We lose the advocay and see the rules, the tress but not the forest.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 08, 2008, 10:50:58 AM
I agree with the herd thing.  I stopped reading my Torts textbook entirely this quarter and people thought I was f-ing nuts.  Granted, I still don't have a grade in the class, but I felt just as prepared in class with my hornbooks and a 2L outline that sums up most of lectures/readings.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 11:00:18 AM
If I understand the meaning of "hornbook," I find that preparing by reading them is far and away superior to simply reading cases.  I know that's disappointing... understanding is supposed to organically flow from original material and all that... but cases are filled with extraneous information that only serves to obscure main points.  Further, they contain lots of procedural schlock that a first year cannot yet know about and only serves to tether and obstruct the process of understanding

So, if i'm to be part of the herd, so be it.  Something tells me that you have to learn the basics before you can change them.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 08, 2008, 12:48:17 PM
If I understand the meaning of "hornbook,"

Technically a hornbook is a treatise that covers everything ever decided on a particular subject and is meant a reference or practioners guide for lawyers and judges usually 1500 pages or more in lenght and maybe in a series of volumes; Prossor on Torts is an example. They are updated with pocket parts rather than new editions. They are called hornbooks because in the days of legal libraries in ever lawyers office the treatise were meant to be kept forever and usually had fancy bindings made of horn. An outline or supplement such as Emmanuelís or Gilberts is just that, an outline of major topics with an eye towards just what law students need to know for their exams or the bar. The two have very diffrent audances and purposes.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 01:05:52 PM
Wow, okay, so now I feel totally unprepared.  I haven't actually touched a hornbook all semester except for in my legal research and writing course.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Matthies on December 08, 2008, 01:09:34 PM
Wow, okay, so now I feel totally unprepared.  I haven't actually touched a hornbook all semester except for in my legal research and writing course.

most law studnets will never touch a hornbook, its overkill, peronally I like them, but its way more info then you need to study for exams, I've usd them for take homes or LR papers, but not to prep for exams
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 01:12:37 PM
thanks for the follow up.  made me feel better.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 06:51:28 PM
i wonder how closely dischord has been following my orders.

See Exile.  Where do you think I've been since 8:15?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 06:56:20 PM
My back hurts now  :-\
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 07:17:18 PM
So who has had exams so far?  Have they gone well?  Any tears after? 

I dont have one till wed  :-\

i don't know if this counts, but i turned in a legal research and writing take-home today.  felt good about it.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 07:19:15 PM
My back hurts now  :-\

someone's fishing for a massage.

ETA: my manners.  sorry about your back.  maybe you should go take a nice hot bath or something.

Lol.

Seriously, though, I generally am a massage-fisher b/c I have a bad back.  And since I've been sitting in the same position at my computer and becoming ever more stressed for the past three days I'd probably take one from a homeless dude who's covered in his own puke right about now.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 07:20:15 PM
why is pjh dischord?  and is the same dischord associated w/fugazi and minor threat?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 07:35:07 PM
why is pjh dischord?  and is the same dischord associated w/fugazi and minor threat?

That was my original username last year, and yes, my avatar used to be this:
http://www.antennas-to-heaven.com/minorthreat2.jpg

FTR, people also sometimes refer to me as Standard Bitter or Joey Ramone b/c of other usernames I've used.

a homeless dude who's covered in his own puke

No, I will not give you a backrub.

Obviously I was thinking of you there.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 07:40:45 PM
you'll always be dischord to me.

and i like to think i rank slightly higher than the homeless dude.  :D

Awww <3

A friend (ahem, "friend") of mine gives really good backrubs but he lives 30+ minutes away and is in the midst of his own grad program finals hell or else I'd totally call him.  DAMMIT.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 07:42:08 PM
you'll always be dischord to me.

and i like to think i rank slightly higher than the homeless dude.  :D

It's all the same if you're covered in puke.  Your home situation makes little difference.

I wouldn't say I'm a die-hard Minor Threat fan, but I will say that I've got several albums as well as some Fugazi on my ipod.  That's not a huge commitment given that it's one of those 16Gb jobs.  I discovered Minor Threat in 8th grade and have been listening ever since.

Excuse my rambling.  My brain is mush at the moment.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 07:44:20 PM
I'm from DC.  I'm always happy to ramble incoherently about the god among men who is Ian MacKaye.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 07:45:33 PM
That's right, I forgot that they're all from DC.  I'm actually not from DC, but I've gotten to know the place a little recently. 
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 07:47:30 PM
A friend (ahem, "friend") of mine

i see how it is.

You didn't think this would last forever, did you?

That's right, I forgot that they're all from DC.  I'm actually not from DC, but I've gotten to know the place a little recently. 

Are you in school there now?  I have a vague recollection that you might be.

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 07:49:49 PM
A friend (ahem, "friend") of mine

i see how it is.

You didn't think this would last forever, did you?

That's right, I forgot that they're all from DC.  I'm actually not from DC, but I've gotten to know the place a little recently. 

Are you in school there now?  I have a vague recollection that you might be.



Yes.

"uh oh.  maybe i've been giving off the wrong idea by accident again.  dammit."

LOL. 
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 07:49:54 PM
Oh for christ's sake.  

I hate those moments where everyone jokes so much that all of a sudden someone thinks it's serious.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 07:50:47 PM


Yes.

What neighborhood (general, you don't have to give yourself up) are you living in, out of curiosity?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 07:51:37 PM


Yes.

What neighborhood (general, you don't have to give yourself up) are you living in, out of curiosity?

Cleveland Park.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 07:54:49 PM


Yes.

What neighborhood (general, you don't have to give yourself up) are you living in, out of curiosity?

Cleveland Park.

Yuppie  :P
Oh for christ's sake.  

I hate those moments where everyone jokes so much that all of a sudden someone thinks it's serious.

pretending to be serious is an awesome joke you know. 

You're awful.

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 07:55:16 PM
why is the fox opening up mail?  is he a postal fox gone rogue or something?  and what's with the origami samurai hat? 
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 07:56:35 PM


Yes.

What neighborhood (general, you don't have to give yourself up) are you living in, out of curiosity?

Cleveland Park.




Yes, but I had to be on the red line in order to get to school.  I can't afford Dupont and it's not like I'm going to be in Silver f-ing Spring or some *&^% like that.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 07:59:20 PM


Yes.

What neighborhood (general, you don't have to give yourself up) are you living in, out of curiosity?

Cleveland Park.




Yes, but I had to be on the red line in order to get to school.  I can't afford Dupont and it's not like I'm going to be in Silver f-ing Spring or some poo like that.

If you go to GULC you could have lived on the Green Line, the stops are actually like two blocks apart.  Or do you go to American or Catholic?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 07:59:52 PM
well that pre-empts my follow-up question as to why flames were shooting out of his ass.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:00:50 PM
Look, I obviously suck but I don't suck as badly as American and I certainly don't suck as badly as Catholic.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:02:48 PM
sorry that last post was kinda harsh.  the truth is that i'm bitter about being on the verge of massive failure. 

still, i'm not deleting it.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:04:46 PM
sorry that last post was kinda harsh.  the truth is that i'm bitter about being on the verge of massive failure. 

still, i'm not deleting it.

well go study for half an hour, then come back.  you'll be less bitter that way.

you under estimate me and my capacity for bitterness.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 08:05:03 PM
Heh, I don't care.  But really those are the only two schools that are solely accessible via the red line, and I think it's equally insulting to just assume that someone goes to GULC (but for the opposite reason).
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:05:20 PM
my bitteracity.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:07:23 PM
Heh, I don't care.  But really those are the only two schools that are solely accessible via the red line, and I think it's equally insulting to just assume that someone goes to GULC (but for the opposite reason).

I wasn't really insulted at all.  I was just being a d1ck because it helps me deal with my neuroses.  ACtually, I've worked with very good lawyers from both of those schools.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:09:52 PM
well, tm... i see you want to get rid of me and I don't blame you.  I think I'll go and bang my head against E. Allen Farnsworth for a while.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:10:40 PM
Heh, I don't care.  But really those are the only two schools that are solely accessible via the red line, and I think it's equally insulting to just assume that someone goes to GULC (but for the opposite reason).

i got yelled at because it sounded like i suggested that the only colleges on manhattan were nyu and columbia.

those are universities, dude.  the only college on manhattan is barnard.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 08:13:07 PM
well, tm... i see you want to get rid of me and I don't blame you.  I think I'll go and bang my head against E. Allen Farnsworth for a while.

Mine's soft cover so if you have the same edition I doubt you'll do much damage.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:14:27 PM
Kitsune!
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 08:17:06 PM
well, tm... i see you want to get rid of me and I don't blame you.  I think I'll go and bang my head against E. Allen Farnsworth for a while.

Mine's soft cover so if you have the same edition I doubt you'll do much damage.

mine's hard.

must be an older version.

I guess they just send all the nice books to your school  :P
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:17:52 PM
Mine's a hardcover.  I knew I had to have it when I saw it in the bookstore, even though the softcover would've been easier on my back.  The hard cover just seemed... well... more E. Allen Farnsworth.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:20:25 PM
I also found some of the student answers for contracts practice exams to be less than stellar.  However, I am at an inferior school. 

I would point out that you shouldn't judge the quality of those essays without taking into account that they were coughed up under pretty crazy time pressure.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 08:20:32 PM
Doing practice exams is giving me a crisis of confidence in my choice of profession.  If this is what separates a SCOTUS justice from joe schmo at Banana State University, then go @#!* yourself.

seriously, my CivPro exam is just a typing contest -- the student answers are total crap.

I would totally go to Banana State U.
I guess they just send all the nice books to your school  :P

yes, so we get to pay more.  yippee.

I don't know if that's even true, unless you factoring in COL.  Who knows, though, I don't actually know what my tuition is.

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:21:55 PM
Honestly, what's the downside of getting a JD from UHawaii?  Is it that you're stuck in Hawaii?  I could live with that. 
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:25:43 PM
I also found some of the student answers for contracts practice exams to be less than stellar.  However, I am at an inferior school. 

I would point out that you shouldn't judge the quality of those essays without taking into account that they were coughed up under pretty crazy time pressure.

Then what the @#!* is the point of these exams?  Why not judge who gets LR by seeing who can endure a series of blowjobs?

<-- feels extremely stressed.

I don't really have an answer to that one.  I mean, while there is time pressure in the legal profession... exam conditions are certainly not a reasonable simulation of it.  It's academic hazing, I guess.  One would think that success on these exams means something because so many firms consider it to be a valuable indicator of who sucks and who sucks less.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 08:26:28 PM
I also found some of the student answers for contracts practice exams to be less than stellar.  However, I am at an inferior school. 

I would point out that you shouldn't judge the quality of those essays without taking into account that they were coughed up under pretty crazy time pressure.

Then what the @#!* is the point of these exams?  Why not judge who gets LR by seeing who can endure a series of blowjobs?

<-- feels extremely stressed.

ENDURE?  If you mean endure giving them that's one thing, but if not, then I think that would leave us with less curve differentiation than we even have now.

Anyway, LSD gives you tons of typing practice.  You're gold.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:27:41 PM
Honestly, what's the downside of getting a JD from UHawaii?  Is it that you're stuck in Hawaii?  I could live with that. 

dude, everything there is expensive.

and i'm fairly certain that hardcover books are more expensive than softcover books.

Don't you live in Manhattan?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 08, 2008, 08:28:54 PM
Stop drinking the kool-aid.  This is all a deck of cards -- a big show to the outside world that doesn't know jack about what we do.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:29:29 PM
Honestly, what's the downside of getting a JD from UHawaii?  Is it that you're stuck in Hawaii?  I could live with that. 

dude, everything there is expensive.

and i'm fairly certain that hardcover books are more expensive than softcover books.

Don't you live in Manhattan?

yes, and it's expensive relative to HERE.

Psh.  Islands.  Who needs them?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 08, 2008, 08:30:35 PM
Everyone else is at the bar tonight.  Should I go?  I can't bring myself to stop talking about exams.  People have started ignoring me because I talk about the work product exception and privilege non-stop.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:31:44 PM
Stop drinking the kool-aid.  This is all a deck of cards -- a big show to the outside world that doesn't know jack about what we do.

Let's hope it stays that way.  I mean, that the outside world doesn't have a clue.  If they really knew how much bullsh*t there is in legal work... I mean REALLY KNEW as opposed to what they think they know... we'd get paid A LOT less.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 08:32:09 PM
Stop drinking the kool-aid.  This is all a deck of cards -- a big show to the outside world that doesn't know jack about what we do.

Moi?  

Everyone else is at the bar tonight.  Should I go?  I can't bring myself to stop talking about exams.  People have started ignoring me because I talk about the work product exception and privilege non-stop.

I think a) that you should stop doing that, and b) maybe you should watch a movie or something.  You should NOT do more prepping, but on the other hand I think classmate contact will stress you out.  I've been avoiding my classmates like the plague for the past 5 days.

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:39:03 PM
It is kind of a silly exercise, the whole thing.  I mean, why not actually write a legal memo instead of sweating through three hours of craping out inferior legal analysis?  Wally's got a point.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 08, 2008, 08:44:17 PM
We do write memos.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:48:16 PM
We do write memos.

We do too and I think that's not a silly exercise.  I think, however, that one might be able to make the case that the exams are.  They have little obvious relationship to what actually goes on in the legal profession.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:49:23 PM
but please be warned that I don't really care about this point.  One could conceivable argue that most classroom activity is irrelevant to real world applications.  Professional school is not vocational school, anyway.

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 08:54:31 PM
Please excuse my blathering.  I'm just nervous about tomorrow.

And I'm either going insane or that fox just changed his outfit.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 09:05:26 PM
Yes, please reassure  me and I promise to stop blathering.

I'm not understanding your initialized commentary even from context.  What does it mean?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 08, 2008, 09:11:46 PM
Ice age, heat wave can't complain.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 09:18:21 PM
i love how tm keeps sending people off to study.  you're like a mother hen.

i'm going to get some z's now peeps.  while i was whining i managed to do satisfactorily on a practice exam.  it's a good time to quit.

i wouldn't mind some gratuitous reassurance thrown my way, however
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 08, 2008, 09:31:55 PM
you're a good homme, tm.

I would offer the following to Wally:

1) you are likely over-prepared for your exams

2) you're obviously a smart and talented guy

3) you go to one of the best law schools in the world

You were able to get here.  There must have been times in the pre-law school era when you doubted you would.  When you look back a few years from now on this moment, you will see it very similarly to the way you now see those pre-law school moments of doubt.

I garbled that, but hopefully you pull out the meaning.

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 08, 2008, 09:58:01 PM
Thanks, man.  That was actually pretty reassuring.  I would say something similar about you and reciprocate, but I don't know you as a poster that well.  (Although the fact that you call me Wally says something about possible lurking, or an alt of another person.)

I reassured Joey Ramone last night, so I'll just say this: *random* FTW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERvg0zlHKDo&feature=related
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: crow on December 09, 2008, 08:30:28 AM
how we doin today?

I feed off your neurotic postings.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 09, 2008, 08:54:17 AM
Wepaniktsocrazikanttyp
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 09, 2008, 08:54:34 AM
how was that?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: crow on December 09, 2008, 09:02:33 AM
!!

I am trying study like hell today.  Then I will be able to relax a little tomorrow before my thurs exam.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 09, 2008, 09:41:34 AM
cool.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 09, 2008, 02:36:27 PM
how's everyone doing?  still sane?

feeling surprisingly fine.  i'm surprised by how many clueless people there are asking basic questions about SJ and JML, but they can still pwn me on the exam, so i'm wary.

also, i exchanged exams with one of the Olin Fellows and he absolutely pwnd.  he hit every issue, nailed the right analysis, and noticed everything.  and he's in my section.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 09, 2008, 02:40:21 PM
An Olin Fellow is someone at my school who's doing a joint PhD./JD thing with the Econ department.  They're easily the smartest people in the class.

Why shouldn't I be intimidated by classmates?  It's not like he's smarter than I am.  He just wrote a better exam, spotting more issues and more coherently defending his positions.  I'm meeting with him in an hour, and I'll try to learn from him and the memo to be more inclusive.

I honestly think my professor uses a check-list, so as long as I run through everything thoroughly like he did, I should be fine.  (Median, definitely.  Hopefully above it.)
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 09, 2008, 02:47:05 PM
Oh, definitely the former.  I'm very motivated by what others are doing, especially if it seems more reasonable or intelligent than me.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: just dot on December 09, 2008, 03:09:05 PM
Best of luck to everyone on your finals!!!!

::sprinkles luck dust::
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: just dot on December 09, 2008, 03:19:51 PM
Best of luck to everyone on your finals!!!!

::sprinkles luck dust::

hi dot!  and good luck!  :)

Heeeey!  And thanks.   ;D  I'll need it.  Law school exams are much harder in practice than they seemed in theory.  You know, back when I was doing LEEWS over the summer.  Hrm.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: blueskies6 on December 09, 2008, 03:21:53 PM
Best of luck to everyone on your finals!!!!

::sprinkles luck dust::

hi dot!  and good luck!  :)

Heeeey!  And thanks.   ;D  I'll need it.  Law school exams are much harder in practice than they seemed in theory.  You know, back when I was doing LEEWS over the summer.  Hrm.

You're still alive?? Good luck on finals!


And good luck to everyone else too!
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: just dot on December 09, 2008, 03:26:16 PM
Best of luck to everyone on your finals!!!!

::sprinkles luck dust::

hi dot!  and good luck!  :)

Heeeey!  And thanks.   ;D  I'll need it.  Law school exams are much harder in practice than they seemed in theory.  You know, back when I was doing LEEWS over the summer.  Hrm.

You're still alive?? Good luck on finals!


And good luck to everyone else too!

Haha!  Almost didn't recognize you, blue.  Yeah, I needed to focus on school so I cut a few time-sucks out.  I think it was helpful.  Now I'm procrastinating (instead of studying) so they're baaaaack.   :D
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: blueskies6 on December 09, 2008, 03:32:02 PM
Haha!  Almost didn't recognize you, blue.  Yeah, I needed to focus on school so I cut a few time-sucks out.  I think it was helpful.  Now I'm procrastinating (instead of studying) so they're baaaaack.   :D

Ah yes, I have a new look for the holidays :)  I'm glad taking time away was helpful! 
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 06:20:38 PM
I'M LOSING IT
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 06:27:19 PM
Ha, I thought I about summed it up.

I stopped working at 6:30 and went out to dinner to take the edge off.  I'm now back at my apartment and about to hyperventilate.  Generalized anxiety.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 06:29:44 PM
10,000 more practice exams couldn't have prepared me for the jurisdictional clusterfuck that took place this afternoon in the hallowed halls of the T25.

Finals: even harder than they sound.
:'( :'(

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 06:33:53 PM
You're awful  :D

I'm seriously about to start crying, though.  I don't even know why.  I have this impending feeling of doom, and envisioning apocalyptic scenarios like walking in to the room and turning on my laptop and my computer explodes or something.  Or forgetting how to spell my name.

I NEED XANAX.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 06:37:26 PM
I hate this.  

So wait, I'm really not going to get so upset that I throw up on myself and forget everything I know about Ks?  In a way, that's reassuring.
I'm seriously about to start crying, though.  I don't even know why.  I have this impending feeling of doom, and envisioning apocalyptic scenarios like walking in to the room and turning on my laptop and my computer explodes or something.  Or forgetting how to spell my name.

it's the pressure.  everyone's going through the exact same thing right now.  i was the same way two years ago.  you'll get through it.

I hate it when the T14 talks about pressure.  You wouldn't last 10 minutes IN THIS T25.

Um, yeah, so I KNOW that my school is 26, so maybe it doesn't count, but it's really not that crazy here.

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 06:39:40 PM
Well, yeah, it's just not that crazy here.  People are pretty optimistic and generally chill.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 06:46:37 PM
(Sorry, I took it back obviously.)

People aren't so bad here.  I just enjoy the shtick.

I think people here really have been drinking the kool-aid, to be honest.  The number of times I hear people say, "Well of course we'll all get jobs, it will be fine" is sort of mind-boggling.



i'm going to spend the next ten minutes thinking about what other words i can put "IN THIS" in front of.



Let's keep it clean, kids.

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 06:48:49 PM
 :o
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 06:54:01 PM
Ha.

Okay so I'm really not going to die or fail? 

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 07:03:47 PM
OK.

Here's another hypothetical question -- if you saw an issue that people in your study group didn't see on a practice exam, it's NOT reasonable to just assume that you got it wrong if no one said it sounded off?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 07:07:36 PM
Maybe they just want to be polite.

God I'm losing it.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Cabra on December 09, 2008, 07:10:08 PM
Three hours this morning--that I hardly remember--and my entire contracts grade is based on that?
I can't wrap my head around it. It was fine--it was what I studied for--but man, seems even more arbitrary post-exam than it did yesterday.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Cabra on December 09, 2008, 07:15:41 PM
Maybe they just want to be polite.

God I'm losing it.

why don't you just ask them if they think it's wrong?

Three hours this morning--that I hardly remember--and my entire contracts grade is based on that?
I can't wrap my head around it. It was fine--it was what I studied for--but man, seems even more arbitrary post-exam than it did yesterday.

have you purged all your contracts knowledge out of your brain yet?

Let's see...nope. I can still quote the UCC. That's the trouble with closed book--you really have to glue it in there.

And yes--ask study group to tell you if you're off! Fight about it! That's the idea, right?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 09, 2008, 07:19:56 PM
I concur with all about finals being harder in fact than in theory.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 07:20:10 PM
We fought about one thing for awhile and I was unconvinced of its irrelevance, group ended up ambivalent with only one firmly opposed.  Everything else, people were like "Oh yeah."
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 07:31:40 PM
No.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Cabra on December 09, 2008, 07:34:03 PM
We fought about one thing for awhile and I was unconvinced of its irrelevance, group ended up ambivalent with only one firmly opposed.  Everything else, people were like "Oh yeah."

Best not to dwell. It's one little *extra* issue you're worried about. Worry about missing huge issues, not about adding potentially irrelevant issues.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: dischord on December 09, 2008, 07:34:41 PM
We fought about one thing for awhile and I was unconvinced of its irrelevance, group ended up ambivalent with only one firmly opposed.  Everything else, people were like "Oh yeah."

Best not to dwell. It's one little *extra* issue you're worried about. Worry about missing huge issues, not about adding potentially irrelevant issues.

I think I've lost the capability to tell the difference at this point.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 09, 2008, 07:35:43 PM
I'm so burnt after that exam that I'm not going to do anything either.  and it does make me feel better to know that others are suffering similarly.  if that makes me a bad person so be it.  I mean, after all, I'm already a future lawyer.  Can't really get any worse.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 09, 2008, 08:04:05 PM
Where's Wally?  How'd you do Wally?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 09, 2008, 08:07:33 PM
tm,

I knew you were an upperclassman, but i didn't know you were a 3L. I could use some advice and will pay cash for it.

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 09, 2008, 08:17:02 PM
tm,

I knew you were an upperclassman, but i didn't know you were a 3L. I could use some advice and will pay cash for it.

advice on what?

not so much advice, as the benefit of your experience.  i'm a little bummed about my contracts performance.  not rock bottom, but I expected to soar a little more than I feel I did.

Question:  how valuable were your impressions of your own performance after your first law school exams?  Were they accurate?  Would you give the same answer if asked to characterized the reactions of your colleagues?
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 09, 2008, 08:23:21 PM
You are like my electronic father.

Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 10, 2008, 09:58:48 AM
Just took my last practice exam.  Wish me luck in CivPro on Friday morning.  Going to take it easy for the next day and a half.  (Oh, who am I kidding?  I'll study non-stop after lunch.)
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 10, 2008, 10:03:30 AM
good luck, man.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on December 10, 2008, 12:42:13 PM
Don't worry, MG.  You kicked ass.  So did *random* and kasm.  LSD FTW!
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Jake_MONDATTA on December 10, 2008, 12:51:23 PM
Don't worry, MG.  You kicked ass.  So did *random* and kasm.  LSD FTW!

ahem.
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Cabra on December 10, 2008, 02:21:37 PM
I'm almost positive I found a mistake in Glannon.  :o
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Cabra on December 10, 2008, 02:41:37 PM
I'm almost positive I found a mistake in Glannon.  :o

share.

Ok--so venue. 28 USC 1391 says you can get venue a few ways-
1-venue where a defendant resides if all live in the same state
or 2-venue where a substantial portion of the events of the claim took place
or failing those, 3-venue is proper in "any district where the defendant is subject to personal jurisdiction"
In the E&E Glannon says that 3 only applies if no venue is proper anywhere else in the US.

And that can't be right--because how would tag jurisdiction ever work if 1391(a)(3) is not available? Then I checked the Glannon Guide and he said he thought *maybe* he was wrong on this point--maybe 3 works even if there are other venues possible, depending on the court.
If service is a valid basis for personal jurisdiction (and the supreme court says it is), it can only work if venue is proper where the defendant is subject to personal jurisdiction. So. um. yeah. 1391(a)(3) has to be available even if other venues exist.

meh. too much civ pro.

*I modified for clarity :)
Title: Re: ITT We Reassure One Another 'Bout Finals
Post by: Cabra on December 10, 2008, 03:07:52 PM
somebody totally knows her civ pro better than i did my 1L year.  :D

Let's hope it pays off. :D