Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 09, 2008, 09:27:31 PM

Title: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 09, 2008, 09:27:31 PM
Sorry for the caps.  I'm trying to round out my applications.  I want to look in Chicago and a big Midwestern state that rhymes with Daiwa.  I also have some family near New York that might have me for da summer.

I want to work at a firm pretty badly.  I told someone it was a dream job and they laughed at me.
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: goaliechica on November 09, 2008, 11:08:04 PM
I want to work at a firm pretty badly.  I told someone it was a dream job and they laughed at me.

I don't totally understand this. Obviously, the ability to make some money and pay off more loans is great, but a dream job?  ??? You do know that you'll have your pick of firm jobs 2L summer, if that's what you want to do, right? There are soooo many cool things you can do 1L summer besides working for a firm. I hear you barking if your point is that you want to pay off the loans ASAP, but in terms of the job itself, I don't really see why you wouldn't broaden your horizons.

That said, I don't really have good advice on finding mid-level firms. Sorry.
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 09, 2008, 11:24:57 PM
I just put that in there to give the post gravitas.  I looked through NALP and Symplicity (sp?), but I was hoping to find further resources.  It seems like NALP dominates the big big firms, and Symplicity had a few mid-level things, but I think a good bet is to find the more reasonably-sized firms that'll pay okay and give me good experience.

Thanks, anyway, Goaliechica.   :P  You all set for next summer?
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: goaliechica on November 09, 2008, 11:28:36 PM
Thanks, anyway, Goaliechica.   :P  You all set for next summer?

You're welcome for my not-at-all-on-topic busy-body-ness  :D

And yup, all set, thank goodess. I don't like making decisions, so I'm glad it's done with.
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 09, 2008, 11:31:51 PM
I don't mean to snoop, but may I ask where you're working?  I'm guessing it's a firm, or perhaps splitting a summer between a firm and somewhere else?
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: "Legapp" Stands for "Legal Application" on November 09, 2008, 11:58:46 PM
www.Martindale.com (http://www.Martindale.com)

Put in your search criteria and go to town.  Also--although it has fewer midlaw options--for practice specific info check out http://www.chambersandpartners.com/ (http://www.chambersandpartners.com/).
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: TheDudeMan on November 10, 2008, 08:48:59 AM
Fine.  I know people at Harvard and T6 schools that DON'T HAVE JOBS.  Better?

Maybe you've missed that whole Harvard-begging-firms-to-choose-from-their-portfolio-of-unhired-students deal on ATL?

Maybe you are assuming ATL is far more credible than it is?  It is a gossip site.  Newsflash, sure the economy blows, but I assure you that Harvard students aren't starving.  Sure, they may not be getting their usual Vault 10 offers, but any law student that wants a Biglaw salary can get it.  They just may have to take a non-vault 100 firm, but who cares, $160k is still $160k.
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 10, 2008, 09:07:47 AM
Ugh . . . no.  Starting your career at Nowhere LLP isn't exactly a good choice.
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: TheDudeMan on November 10, 2008, 09:15:36 AM
I meant any Harvard student that wants Biglaw can get it.  It may be a secondary market, but firms always want that Harvard name.  It's about marketing.
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: Matthies on November 10, 2008, 09:30:52 AM
Don't know if you've tried to get a job in a secondary market lately, but it's actually much tighter in some regions than the NYC, DC, LA route....

And they don't pay 160k
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 10, 2008, 09:42:26 AM
Oh, whatever. The Harvard Career office has confirmed their new strategy.  I know a Harvard 2L without a gig yet this summer.   Not "any law student that wants a Biglaw salary can get it."  I can introduce you to dozens in the T14 that would love $160k ANYWHERE.

Are they mostly at your school?

The market blows blows blows.  Everyone at my school is gunning like crazy for the top; they all know just how hard it is to get anything going.
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: Matthies on November 10, 2008, 09:45:31 AM
Oh, whatever. The Harvard Career office has confirmed their new strategy.  I know a Harvard 2L without a gig yet this summer.   Not "any law student that wants a Biglaw salary can get it."  I can introduce you to dozens in the T14 that would love $160k ANYWHERE.

Are they mostly at your school?

The market blows blows blows.  Everyone at my school is gunning like crazy for the top; they all know just how hard it is to get anything going.

All the more reason you should be spending your free time networking with working lawyers and judges in Chicago rather than your classmates. You will meet plenty of mid law folks that way and be more to them than just a faceless résumé.

Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: rnb on November 10, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
I actually think there just aren't many mid-size firms (if that's what you mean by "mid-level").  Once a firm grows over about 50 attorneys, it becomes more likely to get taken over by a big firm.  So you end up with a lot of big firms and a lot of 5-10 attorney firms. 

In San Francisco, for example, I'd guess there are only about 5 firms that are 50-150 attorneys. 
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: botbot on November 10, 2008, 10:28:55 AM
I actually think there just aren't many mid-size firms (if that's what you mean by "mid-level").  Once a firm grows over about 50 attorneys, it becomes more likely to get taken over by a big firm.  So you end up with a lot of big firms and a lot of 5-10 attorney firms. 

In San Francisco, for example, I'd guess there are only about 5 firms that are 50-150 attorneys. 

Dallas, Houston, and ATL are decently midlawered.

Midlaw is almost exclusively litigation though...
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: rnb on November 10, 2008, 12:41:26 PM
^Very true about Texas having more mid-size firms. 

I'm not sure about the litigation thing though.  The California mid-size firms have similar practice areas to big firms (and about split 50-50 for litigation and transactional).  The Texas ones might be more litigation focused. 
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: botbot on November 10, 2008, 12:55:24 PM
^Very true about Texas having more mid-size firms. 

I'm not sure about the litigation thing though.  The California mid-size firms have similar practice areas to big firms (and about split 50-50 for litigation and transactional).  The Texas ones might be more litigation focused. 

Your midlaw = 30-150 lawyers?
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: finderskeepers on November 10, 2008, 02:56:28 PM
Oh, whatever. The Harvard Career office has confirmed their new strategy.  I know a Harvard 2L without a gig yet this summer.   Not "any law student that wants a Biglaw salary can get it."  I can introduce you to dozens in the T14 that would love $160k ANYWHERE.

Are they mostly at your school?

The market blows blows blows.  Everyone at my school is gunning like crazy for the top; they all know just how hard it is to get anything going.

You are overgeneralizing and exaggerating.
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: Matthies on November 10, 2008, 03:20:07 PM
Oh, whatever. The Harvard Career office has confirmed their new strategy.  I know a Harvard 2L without a gig yet this summer.   Not "any law student that wants a Biglaw salary can get it."  I can introduce you to dozens in the T14 that would love $160k ANYWHERE.

Are they mostly at your school?

The market blows blows blows.  Everyone at my school is gunning like crazy for the top; they all know just how hard it is to get anything going.

You are overgeneralizing and exaggerating.

Wally? no never
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: h2xblive on November 10, 2008, 03:39:34 PM
I actually think there just aren't many mid-size firms (if that's what you mean by "mid-level").  Once a firm grows over about 50 attorneys, it becomes more likely to get taken over by a big firm.  So you end up with a lot of big firms and a lot of 5-10 attorney firms. 

In San Francisco, for example, I'd guess there are only about 5 firms that are 50-150 attorneys. 

Dallas, Houston, and ATL are decently midlawered.

Midlaw is almost exclusively litigation though...

I'm really glad you said this, as it can explain why today is not the best time to be interested in transactional law.

Even this summer, I knew big law firms' corporate departments were hurting...and that was even before the whole mortgage crisis/financial meltdown became "official."
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 10, 2008, 04:14:57 PM
Oh, whatever. The Harvard Career office has confirmed their new strategy.  I know a Harvard 2L without a gig yet this summer.   Not "any law student that wants a Biglaw salary can get it."  I can introduce you to dozens in the T14 that would love $160k ANYWHERE.

Are they mostly at your school?

The market blows blows blows.  Everyone at my school is gunning like crazy for the top; they all know just how hard it is to get anything going.

You are overgeneralizing and exaggerating.

Ugh . . . no.  But it's possible you're in F, which is widely considered the "fun" section.
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: finderskeepers on November 10, 2008, 04:34:42 PM
Oh, whatever. The Harvard Career office has confirmed their new strategy.  I know a Harvard 2L without a gig yet this summer.   Not "any law student that wants a Biglaw salary can get it."  I can introduce you to dozens in the T14 that would love $160k ANYWHERE.

Are they mostly at your school?

The market blows blows blows.  Everyone at my school is gunning like crazy for the top; they all know just how hard it is to get anything going.

You are overgeneralizing and exaggerating.

Ugh . . . no.  But it's possible you're in F, which is widely considered the "fun" section.

What do you mean "no"?  You honestly think you can state that EVERYONE is GUNNING LIKE CRAZY for the top?  This is definitely not true - I regularly hear people say they're just aiming for median.
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: rnb on November 10, 2008, 05:57:56 PM
^Very true about Texas having more mid-size firms. 

I'm not sure about the litigation thing though.  The California mid-size firms have similar practice areas to big firms (and about split 50-50 for litigation and transactional).  The Texas ones might be more litigation focused. 

Your midlaw = 30-150 lawyers?

I'm not sure what I would consider "midlaw."  I posed this question in another thread and nobody answered.  I would say 30-150 is a fair definition though (and roughly the definition I used when referring to Texas and California mid-size firms). 
Title: Re: Where Can I Find MID-LEVEL FIRMS?! (Not on NALP.)
Post by: ,.,.,.;.,.,. on November 10, 2008, 10:54:37 PM
I'm not afraid to say I'm gunning for good grades, but maybe not gunning like crazy.  I'm more of the already-have-the-outline, taking-practice-tests type.  I also know that Hip is an excellent student.

There are a few very very smart people here, and I think that, whatever happens, they'll hit the top of the curve.  After that, it's somewhat of a crapshoot.