Law School Discussion

Law Students => Current Law Students => Topic started by: Mary on March 27, 2005, 07:39:06 PM

Title: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on March 27, 2005, 07:39:06 PM
I'd like to spend my summer reading prepping for law school.  What do you all recommend?

There's a series called the "Nutshell Series" published by Thompson/West.  Should I buy the volumes that deal with my first-year classes and read
them thoroughly?

Or do you recommend E&E?, S&S?, Gilberts?

Which is the cheapest? Most expensive? How much am I looking to spend?

Also, which is better audio tapes or books? Or does it depend on the class?
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: zebbie88 on March 28, 2005, 09:56:56 AM
I seriously question whether any law school reading would make any sense or be at all helpful.  In fact, I'd say it would hurt more than it would help.  Far and away the best thing you can do in your summer before law school is to have as much fun as possible, relax, party, and do absolutely nothing.  Lord knows, you're not going to have much time for it once school starts.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: duma on March 28, 2005, 11:48:48 AM
I seriously question whether any law school reading would make any sense or be at all helpful.  In fact, I'd say it would hurt more than it would help.  Far and away the best thing you can do in your summer before law school is to have as much fun as possible, relax, party, and do absolutely nothing.  Lord knows, you're not going to have much time for it once school starts.
Everyone comes in here and asks what they can do before the first year, and the above quote is the same thing that we say over and over again.

Relax.

The only item I would add, and this comes after a post from Kelly, practice typing if you are not great at it. Other than that, sit back and relax.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on March 28, 2005, 12:12:23 PM
I really would like someone to "answer" my question. :D
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: duma on March 28, 2005, 02:38:35 PM
I really would like someone to "answer" my question. :D
We answered your first question, "what do you [all] recommend?" We recommend that you do not read anything, and the reason was given as to why. Naturally, if we don't think you should read anything, we are not going to tell you what to read.

As far as price goes visit a few websites that sell them (ebay, amazon, etc). Prices will vary from source to source.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on March 28, 2005, 04:11:44 PM
Well, I'd like to read one of tbe items I mentioned and am just looking for responses on what all of you think of each item (E&E, NutShells, etc.,)?
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: dgatl on March 28, 2005, 07:27:55 PM
i use E&E's and gilberts.

i would not prepping for 1L other than maybe skimming the E&Es for your first semester classes.  skimming while sipping a margarita at your beach house.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on March 29, 2005, 04:03:13 PM
So you weren't fond (or didn't use) NutShell's?

i use E&E's and gilberts.

i would not prepping for 1L other than maybe skimming the E&Es for your first semester classes.  skimming while sipping a margarita at your beach house.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: lipper on March 29, 2005, 06:22:21 PM
as a current 1L, i can tell u that prepping is useless.

however, if u will disregard everyone's advice on this, here are the supplements i used last semester and this semester.

Civ Pro - Glannons E&E (this is priceless, and will be ur bible when u take this class)
if u must read something this summer, this will help the most

Contracts - Emmanuels and E&E

Property - Gilberts by Dukeminier (the man wrote the case book you will probably use, its golden, provides concise explanations on vague topics)
try to master the rule against perpetuities. i took the property final not knowing what the hell i was doing when it came to this - got a 38 on the exam, thank god that was a B.

Torts - didn't use one

Criminal - Dressler's Treatise published by Lexis is amazing.

Con Law - dont even try to fill ur head with con law crap. it is a beast all in itself. i have 4 hours of con law HW a night, the worst subject by far. every prof. teaches it differently, so prepping for this class will definitly be pointless. u wont know what provisions ur prof will cover (we dont touch the commerce clause, but we place a heavy emphasis on the whole equal protection/due process clauses of the 5th and 14th amendments; some classes go in depth on the commerce clause, and other provisions)

thats about it.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: calikate on March 30, 2005, 04:42:42 PM
Do any of you feel that reading cases to get used to the language is useful? I know that they're abridged in casebooks, but this can't hurt, right? Actual studying does seem pointless.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on March 30, 2005, 05:05:31 PM
Thank you Lipper!!!  This is very helpful!!!

May I ask, did you use (or do you recommend) audio tapes?  Anything that would be good to listen to? 

Also, I was planning to get the supplements at a law bookstore but others have recommended to get it online.  Where do you think would be the best place to get the material?

Also, is it all expensive or does it just depend on where you go to purchase them?


as a current 1L, i can tell u that prepping is useless.

however, if u will disregard everyone's advice on this, here are the supplements i used last semester and this semester.

Civ Pro - Glannons E&E (this is priceless, and will be ur bible when u take this class)
if u must read something this summer, this will help the most

Contracts - Emmanuels and E&E

Property - Gilberts by Dukeminier (the man wrote the case book you will probably use, its golden, provides concise explanations on vague topics)
try to master the rule against perpetuities. i took the property final not knowing what the hell i was doing when it came to this - got a 38 on the exam, thank god that was a B.

Torts - didn't use one

Criminal - Dressler's Treatise published by Lexis is amazing.

Con Law - dont even try to fill ur head with con law crap. it is a beast all in itself. i have 4 hours of con law HW a night, the worst subject by far. every prof. teaches it differently, so prepping for this class will definitly be pointless. u wont know what provisions ur prof will cover (we dont touch the commerce clause, but we place a heavy emphasis on the whole equal protection/due process clauses of the 5th and 14th amendments; some classes go in depth on the commerce clause, and other provisions)

thats about it.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: lipper on March 30, 2005, 08:11:23 PM
i use the "sum and substance" CD series for Criminal by Dressler. haven't used any other audio things. I think this is great to gain an overview of a topic after having read the assigned cases and read through the relevant parts of his treatise.


just go on barnes and noble or amazon to get what u want. thats what i did. ur gonna pay about the same no matter where u go.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: rezipsa on March 31, 2005, 08:32:19 AM
Far and away the best thing you can do in your summer before law school is to have as much fun as possible, relax, party, and do absolutely nothing.  Lord knows, you're not going to have much time for it once school starts.

I totally agree with this.  Before I started first year, I went to Vegas!  If you are dying to read something, read 1L, A Civil Action or The Disaster at Buffalo Creek.  But most of all, have some fun and enjoy the time off.  Soon you will be up to your ears with studying and dreaming of sitting on the beach, drinking an ice cold Corona and seeing how far you can throw your case books.

Am I right?
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on March 31, 2005, 10:37:50 AM
i use the "sum and substance" CD series for Criminal by Dressler. haven't used any other audio things. I think this is great to gain an overview of a topic after having read the assigned cases and read through the relevant parts of his treatise.


just go on barnes and noble or amazon to get what u want. thats what i did. ur gonna pay about the same no matter where u go.

Okay, I'll do that.  I was just curious if you knew what the whole thing will run.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: onehandedreader on March 31, 2005, 12:01:17 PM
I know it's already been said, but i think it bears repeating: spend your summer before law school relaxing, having fun.  you're going to spend that first year doing nothing but studying, and, as one of the previous posters said, it's pretty much useless to start trying to learn the law before you even start school.  I do recommend reading law school confidential, though, i didn't see that one mentioned here.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Lanya on April 01, 2005, 08:53:19 AM
What about taking a BarBri course in late summer to prepare for law school?  Has anyone done that or heard anything about that?  Is it useful?  If I remember correctly, it's basically a 3-day (6 hours each day) course, where different actual law professors briefly introduce you to all the classes that you'll be taking in your first year of law and teaching you techniques of how to score well on the exams for each of those classes, so you end up at the top of your class.  The guy who came to our school and advertised this program said that almost everyone who's gone through it was in the top 10% of their graduating class at the end of their 1L.  That sounds very attractive, but he was advertising the program, so I wonder, if it's acutually true.  And the program costs $800 - quite a lot for just three days of classes!  Still, if it does what it promises to do - very tempting...  Does anyone have any comments?

By the way, here's BarBri's website:
http://www.lawschoolprep.com
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 01, 2005, 06:41:49 PM
I have 2 friends that took Barbri and they said it was a HUGE waste of $$$ & time!!!  They said the only thing they learned was how to brief cases.

What about taking a BarBri course in late summer to prepare for law school?  Has anyone done that or heard anything about that?  Is it useful?  If I remember correctly, it's basically a 3-day (6 hours each day) course, where different actual law professors briefly introduce you to all the classes that you'll be taking in your first year of law and teaching you techniques of how to score well on the exams for each of those classes, so you end up at the top of your class.  The guy who came to our school and advertised this program said that almost everyone who's gone through it was in the top 10% of their graduating class at the end of their 1L.  That sounds very attractive, but he was advertising the program, so I wonder, if it's acutually true.  And the program costs $800 - quite a lot for just three days of classes!  Still, if it does what it promises to do - very tempting...  Does anyone have any comments?

By the way, here's BarBri's website:
http://www.lawschoolprep.com
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: blake840 on April 03, 2005, 08:35:41 PM
Mary, I'm a pre-1L also...I haven't been to LS yet, but I can tell you what I've been reading in my spare time. 

Planet Law School II- I have been reading bits and pieces from it for about 2 months.  It explains a lot about how to prep without driving yourself nuts.  It is like 900 pages and you have to order it online but I think it is a good book so far.

Slaying the Law School Dragon-  I have only read a couple of chapters so far.  What I like about this book is that it gives you cases and explains step-by-step how to read, understand, and brief them. 

Law School for Dummies-  This sounds ridiculous, but it has a lot of useful tips in it and it is a laid back approach to prepping.  Still seriously helpful, takes you from pre-class all the way to finding a job.

Just Purchased

Law 101- This books describes itself as a "everyman" type of legal reference book, the kind that was designed for joe schmo to learn something easily.  I figured I would check it out because I want to know the basics about each of the first year classes without getting too deep.  If joe schmo can read it then I (as a 0L) probably should.

Legal Writing in Plain English-Haven't even opened it yet, can't tell you too much about it.  It does look competent in teaching you how to write the way your profs are going to expect...or else I wouldn't have purchased it.


I have a lot of outline books, nutshell stuff, and the sparknotes "cheat sheets".  I was fortunate enough to have an uncle who just graduated from LS 2 years ago.  He gave me all his stuff, except for the stuff he still uses.  I have all the Barbri tapes and I occasionally listen to them on long drives. 

I'm not getting in too deep, just reading when I have a few moments between school work and things I do for fun. 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: dft on April 03, 2005, 10:15:10 PM
I'm interesting in knowing what materials are good to prep with.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: fooseball22 on April 04, 2005, 10:47:20 AM
I honestly would be wary about heeding the advice of posters who say 'relax and have a good time'.  It just goes to show where their priorities are.  My guess is that these individuals went straight from undergrad to law school, but i can only speculate.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: jomolungma on April 04, 2005, 02:41:27 PM
I honestly would be wary about heeding the advice of posters who say 'relax and have a good time'.  It just goes to show where their priorities are.  My guess is that these individuals went straight from undergrad to law school, but i can only speculate.

I have to agree with this.  I've been out of school for 9 years and have been reading lots of law-related books this whole year.  I'm not studying the law, I'm reading.  I'm reading about the subjects, and the law in general, in hopes that I'll retain about 5-10% of the language and main ideas, something to help me up the learning curve when the ball drops.  My uncle, a succesful lawyer in his own right, told me the biggest things for a 1L are learning to think like a lawyer and the language barrier.  If I can tackle one of those even sllightly it's gotta help.

The main argument folks throw at me against what I am doing is burnout.  Look, if you've spent the last 8-10 years of your life working and going to war like me, burnout is not gonna happen.  I CHOSE TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL.  If I get burned out it's my own fault and means I made a major mistake.  I plan on doing this law thing for the rest of my life, wouldn't it suck to get burned out in one year?  Give me a break.  Suck it up.  I'll tell ya this, while some of you bask your summer away on the beach others are reading and learning.  When the first class starts, you'll know who is who.  I'm not saying their grades will be different, but my guess is they will be.  There are those that go to law school because they want to be lawyers and those who go because they can't decide what they want to be.  Lawyers prepare.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: lipper on April 04, 2005, 04:39:07 PM
ur burnout argument is baseless. obviously u have no idea what ur talking about. ur argument rests on the false assumption that law school is like the practice of law. the reason burnout happens is because law school is A LOT MORE INTENSIVE THAN THE PRACICE OF LAW. in law school, u have memos, outlining, oral arguments to prepare for, all while still preparing for class which takes 4 -5 hours a night. i could go on, but im just f'n beat from all the work law school is throwin at me.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: EASTWEST on April 04, 2005, 05:46:32 PM
Different things work for different people. I have done very well so far in law school, and did nothing to prep for it. If your goal is to get great grades and parlay that into a good attorney position, then I strongly feel reading excessive amounts of material before starting law school is superfluous. All law schools operate differently and all Profs teach different material in different ways and expect different things from exams. The best way to achieve this is simply doing the work while in law school. Many people I know suffered greatly because they relied too heavily on commercial outlines which generalize the law into black letter rules. Similarly, the method of heavy preparation can blur the lines of your understanding of the material and law resulting in your failure to operate as your specific professor expects. Many people, who are not obsessive and who do significantly less work than most, do extremely well in law school. Find out what works best for you, but certainly don't overdo it. I hope this helps, but i guess i'm one of those jerks who just says relax. If you are truly intelligent and have the critical thinking skills that lawyers should, you will do exceptionally well with a disciplined work ethic.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: fooseball22 on April 04, 2005, 05:56:00 PM
apparently Lipper knows what working as a lawyer in practice AND what working as a law student is like AND hes still in law school....
...
...
Lets think about this...law student...knows what its like to practice as a lawyer...Even if you DID work as a paralegal before law school(doubtful) and even if you did work as an associate or a clerk, i HIGHLY doubt that qualifies you to comment on the parallels of work load between law students and lawyers. 
I'd also like to point out that jomo never really makes the assumption that law school is like the practice of law.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: jomolungma on April 04, 2005, 06:14:11 PM
ur burnout argument is baseless. obviously u have no idea what ur talking about. ur argument rests on the false assumption that law school is like the practice of law. the reason burnout happens is because law school is A LOT MORE INTENSIVE THAN THE PRACICE OF LAW. in law school, u have memos, outlining, oral arguments to prepare for, all while still preparing for class which takes 4 -5 hours a night. i could go on, but im just f'n beat from all the work law school is throwin at me.

dude, get over it... if it's that tough, leave... dropout... cry... do something other than be another one of the many whiners and complainers... i happen to work with lawyers everyday... i also have several in my family who come home late at night and are barely seen on weekends... but they do it because they accept the tradeoffs... you want a law degree, accept the tradeoffs...

i don't think how much someone studies has a direct correlation to how well they do... different strokes for different folks... i know quite a few students who studied themselves sick and then bombed due to test anxiety... i know others that took three-day weekends throughout 1L and made law review... i personally have no idea what will work for me, i'll figure it out... my previous post was simply stating that there are other options to blowing off your summer before school, and if you take what you are doing seriously, i would think you'd want to crack a book or two before day one
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: jomolungma on April 04, 2005, 06:25:49 PM
Different things work for different people. I have done very well so far in law school, and did nothing to prep for it. If your goal is to get great grades and parlay that into a good attorney position, then I strongly feel reading excessive amounts of material before starting law school is superfluous. All law schools operate differently and all Profs teach different material in different ways and expect different things from exams. The best way to achieve this is simply doing the work while in law school. Many people I know suffered greatly because they relied too heavily on commercial outlines which generalize the law into black letter rules. 

I agree with what you're saying, which is why I tried to make a point of stating that I wasn't studying, just reading.  I read West Nutshell's on the subway.  I've read an E&E or two and a couple of Law School Confidential type books.  All of this reading was spread out over the course of 15 months.  In addition, I work in NYC housing court everyday, with three law students and a group of experienced L&T attorneys.  We talk, I learn.  I'm not tied to any assumptions or principles of learning, and I'm completely open to the uniqueness of my professor's teaching.  However, I know some of the issues involved with jurisdiction, and I can spell collateral estoppel.  I know what the letter K refers to, what the MPC is, and the names of a bunch of different crimes.  As a former English teacher and Internet developer that's more than I knew when I started and it can't hurt to know when I get to school.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 04, 2005, 08:09:56 PM
Hi,
I've read PLS II and was planning to get a couple of the others you mentioned.

What I was actually asking was what texts/supplementals would people recommend for all the 1L courses? e.g., Torts, Property, etc.

Mary, I'm a pre-1L also...I haven't been to LS yet, but I can tell you what I've been reading in my spare time. 

Planet Law School II- I have been reading bits and pieces from it for about 2 months.  It explains a lot about how to prep without driving yourself nuts.  It is like 900 pages and you have to order it online but I think it is a good book so far.

Slaying the Law School Dragon-  I have only read a couple of chapters so far.  What I like about this book is that it gives you cases and explains step-by-step how to read, understand, and brief them. 

Law School for Dummies-  This sounds ridiculous, but it has a lot of useful tips in it and it is a laid back approach to prepping.  Still seriously helpful, takes you from pre-class all the way to finding a job.

Just Purchased

Law 101- This books describes itself as a "everyman" type of legal reference book, the kind that was designed for joe schmo to learn something easily.  I figured I would check it out because I want to know the basics about each of the first year classes without getting too deep.  If joe schmo can read it then I (as a 0L) probably should.

Legal Writing in Plain English-Haven't even opened it yet, can't tell you too much about it.  It does look competent in teaching you how to write the way your profs are going to expect...or else I wouldn't have purchased it.


I have a lot of outline books, nutshell stuff, and the sparknotes "cheat sheets".  I was fortunate enough to have an uncle who just graduated from LS 2 years ago.  He gave me all his stuff, except for the stuff he still uses.  I have all the Barbri tapes and I occasionally listen to them on long drives. 

I'm not getting in too deep, just reading when I have a few moments between school work and things I do for fun. 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 04, 2005, 08:11:00 PM
I agree with you 110% there.  That is why I always cringe when posters say that.

I honestly would be wary about heeding the advice of posters who say 'relax and have a good time'.  It just goes to show where their priorities are.  My guess is that these individuals went straight from undergrad to law school, but i can only speculate.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 04, 2005, 08:12:17 PM
Can you please not hijack my thread?! :-[

ur burnout argument is baseless. obviously u have no idea what ur talking about. ur argument rests on the false assumption that law school is like the practice of law. the reason burnout happens is because law school is A LOT MORE INTENSIVE THAN THE PRACICE OF LAW. in law school, u have memos, outlining, oral arguments to prepare for, all while still preparing for class which takes 4 -5 hours a night. i could go on, but im just f'n beat from all the work law school is throwin at me.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: jomolungma on April 04, 2005, 08:31:15 PM
Hi,
I've read PLS II and was planning to get a couple of the others you mentioned.

What I was actually asking was what texts/supplementals would people recommend for all the 1L courses? e.g., Torts, Property, etc.


There is a list in Law School Confidential that's pretty good.  I've found the Examples and Explanations for CivPro and Torts helpful, easy to read, but they aren't all by the same author so they differ...
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: fooseball22 on April 05, 2005, 06:11:11 AM
I am slogging through the Contracts E&E book right now.  I mean, its pretty dry material compared to torts, but i feel like the author could have put more umph into it (stylistically speaking).  Right now, I'm doing the PLS2 law school prep thingy and as far as i can tell im absorbing some of the important stuff (not as much as i need to though).  It can be rigorous if ur a full time employee, but it appears to pay off in the long run.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Bored_3L on April 05, 2005, 02:53:52 PM
Even though it's been said before, and ignored repeatedly, you should just relax during the summer leading up to 1L.  There is enough stress associated with the first year without adding to it over the summer.  Investing serious time reading several law books is not productive for two main reasons:

1) In law school, as in any class, you aren't learning everything there is to know in a subject you are learning what the professor feels like covering.  It doesn't make sense grappling the intricacies of contractual conecpts that you may not even cover in class.  Different study aids focus on different things and until you are familiar with your profs' style you won't know which one to invest in and utilize effectively.

2) Succes in law school depends on your ability to analyze scenarios and apply the law on an exam.  Simply regurgitating legal rules you read over the summer does not improve analysis skills and lead to better grades.  Until you start diving into case law and seeing what kinds of in class analyses are emphasized, you won't know how to prepare and study effectively.

If you insist on ignoring the relaxation advice and preparing, then jomolungma has the right idea.  Just skim stuff to get a basic knowledge of terminology and the workings of the court system (especially civil court because that's from where most of your reading will be taken). 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: EASTWEST on April 05, 2005, 03:11:58 PM
I agree with last post.

But people, stop putting that damn Fooseball post up. It is simply illogical. He suspects a correlation between the suggestion of relaxing before a truly grueling endeavor and people who have messed up priorities and went straight from undegrad to law school? Interesting assumptions...that logic should serve you well in law school. Ladies and gentleman, the next Clarence Thomas!!!

Jomo's approach is a very reasonable one, but for many of the others I again warn that getting too deep into substantive material will likely harm you once in law school. I think many professors and deans would agree, in fact email them. Their email addresses are listed online, and i suspect they'd be more than happy to give some insight into this.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Kelly on April 05, 2005, 03:28:48 PM
You really must be bored!!! :D

Even though it's been said before, and ignored repeatedly, you should just relax during the summer leading up to 1L.  There is enough stress associated with the first year without adding to it over the summer.  Investing serious time reading several law books is not productive for two main reasons:

1) In law school, as in any class, you aren't learning everything there is to know in a subject you are learning what the professor feels like covering.  It doesn't make sense grappling the intricacies of contractual conecpts that you may not even cover in class.  Different study aids focus on different things and until you are familiar with your profs' style you won't know which one to invest in and utilize effectively.

2) Succes in law school depends on your ability to analyze scenarios and apply the law on an exam.  Simply regurgitating legal rules you read over the summer does not improve analysis skills and lead to better grades.  Until you start diving into case law and seeing what kinds of in class analyses are emphasized, you won't know how to prepare and study effectively.

If you insist on ignoring the relaxation advice and preparing, then jomolungma has the right idea.  Just skim stuff to get a basic knowledge of terminology and the workings of the court system (especially civil court because that's from where most of your reading will be taken). 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 05, 2005, 03:32:37 PM
I definitely don't want to waste a summer relaxing and partying!



Even though it's been said before, and ignored repeatedly, you should just relax during the summer leading up to 1L.  There is enough stress associated with the first year without adding to it over the summer.  Investing serious time reading several law books is not productive for two main reasons:

1) In law school, as in any class, you aren't learning everything there is to know in a subject you are learning what the professor feels like covering.  It doesn't make sense grappling the intricacies of contractual conecpts that you may not even cover in class.  Different study aids focus on different things and until you are familiar with your profs' style you won't know which one to invest in and utilize effectively.

2) Succes in law school depends on your ability to analyze scenarios and apply the law on an exam.  Simply regurgitating legal rules you read over the summer does not improve analysis skills and lead to better grades.  Until you start diving into case law and seeing what kinds of in class analyses are emphasized, you won't know how to prepare and study effectively.

If you insist on ignoring the relaxation advice and preparing, then jomolungma has the right idea.  Just skim stuff to get a basic knowledge of terminology and the workings of the court system (especially civil court because that's from where most of your reading will be taken). 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: jomolungma on April 05, 2005, 04:02:35 PM
Just so everyone doesn't think I'm a fuddy duddy, my anniversary is coming up this July and I will be doing lots of relaxing and partying with my wife.  I won't have a single law-related book with me.  But since I've known I was going to law school for the last year or so I had to do something with that time, right?  I didn't have my senior year of undergrad to distract me.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: fooseball22 on April 06, 2005, 07:26:36 AM

But people, stop putting that d**mn Fooseball post up. It is simply illogical. He suspects a correlation between the suggestion of relaxing before a truly grueling endeavor and people who have messed up priorities and went straight from undegrad to law school? Interesting assumptions...that logic should serve you well in law school. Ladies and gentleman, the next Clarence Thomas!!!


What I actually said was that the ‘fun and relaxation’ bit just goes to show where certain individuals priorities are, namely undergrads who went straight to law school.  Meaning, their priorities are probably on ‘fun and relaxation’.  Is that messed up?  No, nor did I imply that.  Does that mean you shouldn’t have fun and relax?  NO, nor did I imply that.  Did I make that assumption out of the blue or illogically like east west insists? NO…What I did base that assumption on was students I went to undergrad with.  Some went to law school directly some waited a year, some two, others four years.  Guess who emphasized fun and relaxation before law school the most?  You guessed right, the students who went straight in.  Did the other students who waited say don’t relax or have fun?  Of course not, but they were not as staunch as the ‘straight-ins’ about fun and relaxation.  Is there some sort of correlation here?  I think so, but I never said it was an overwhelming one, nor did I say it was the definitive answer and I NEVER made a false assumption, just an educated guess  ;)
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: rezipsa on April 06, 2005, 11:51:37 AM
I definitely don't want to waste a summer relaxing and partying!

I will say it again and you can look at previous posts from some of us that have some survived.  RELAX this summer you will need to store all that energy for the upcomming year.  In fact, you may be wasting a lot of time reading these review books when your prof may teach you the law totally different that the review books. 

Trust me, you will get enough reading and reviewing throughout the year.  Go on vacation! 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 06, 2005, 02:08:43 PM
I need $ to go on vacation!

I definitely don't want to waste a summer relaxing and partying!

I will say it again and you can look at previous posts from some of us that have some survived.  RELAX this summer you will need to store all that energy for the upcomming year.  In fact, you may be wasting a lot of time reading these review books when your prof may teach you the law totally different that the review books. 

Trust me, you will get enough reading and reviewing throughout the year.  Go on vacation! 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: rezipsa on April 06, 2005, 03:44:57 PM
I need $ to go on vacation!


Yeah, that is a requirement...
Hey, that is what student loans are for!
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 06, 2005, 07:40:58 PM
Student loans for vacation???

I need $ to go on vacation!


Yeah, that is a requirement...
Hey, that is what student loans are for!
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: rezipsa on April 07, 2005, 08:20:19 AM
Student loans for vacation???

Yeah.  Think of the vacation as summer camp or a seminar.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on April 07, 2005, 12:10:45 PM
I haven't read all three pages here, but I think I get the idea.

I might read a book about law school before I start.  But that's about it. 

I do think that recently graduating from UG (I graduated in May '04 BTW) does probably correlate with not "preparing" for school as much.  But I don't think it really is a matter of priorities.  I think it's more a matter of feeling academically confident.  B/c let's face it -- if it's been several years (or for some people, more than eight or nine years) since you've been in school, you probably are a bit more nervous about going back.  And you probably don't remember quite how academics can burn a person out in a way that a 9-5 job can't.  But this is just my opinion, of course. As always, I reserve the right to be wrong.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: jomolungma on April 07, 2005, 02:53:55 PM
You're right, I definitely don't remember academic burnout, it's been waaay too long and I played golf and tennis most of my senior year anyway.  However, having just come out of the Army, I'm expecting law school to be a similar experience, mentally and physically, and so that's how I'm preparing.  Basically thinking of the toughest thing I've ever been through and adding 10%.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on April 07, 2005, 05:47:01 PM
Yes, I hear you.  The first year of law school is going to be intense.  It's easy to forget how such intellectual intensity can wear on you.  When everything is new and nothing is routine, burnout can be a factor.  I think a relaxed summer is worth protecting against that.

I also think it's necessary to make sure you spend some time with your family and friends (especially your sig other).  Because if you have to deal with difficulties in those relationships while you're trying to deal with your first year of LS, it'll be a disaster. 

So relaxing it is for me.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on April 07, 2005, 05:51:33 PM
Reread your post and noticed you talked about the army.

I understand that it's necessary to compare LS to something, but I think it's going to be a very different type of intensity than the army would offer.  I mean, it may actually be less stressful than the army, especially than Iraq.  But the type of intensity that law school will cause may actually burn you out faster.  Because even though there's less stress -- and the consequences of not succeeding are, in some ways, not as great -- the constant intellectual rigor (as opposed to physical rigor or emotional stress) may actually be worse than what you come up against in the army.

I'll be interested in seeing how you compare the two experiences after a semester, though.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: lipper on April 07, 2005, 09:10:25 PM
i served 4 years in the military, and will soon finish my first year in law school. law school without a doubt, is tougher in so many ways. First, obviously, its harder intellectually, a lot more rigorous. Also, think of your prof's as drill sergeants. They will no doubt break you down with the socratic method. The reason law school is worse is because, unlike in the military, you get no praise at all while ur being taught. the only praise u get is when u get ur grades. Also, i think physically its on par with basic, as far as exhaustion is concerned. Sure, ur not crawling or putting urself through miles of marching, but the whole sleep deprivation thing is exhausting. with 8ams every day of the week, and hours of HW a night, on top of papers due, preparing for an oral argument, as well as outlining for finals, even when u do have a chance to get 8 hours of sleep, u dont sleep. u try to, but u constantly think about what u have to do, planning ur next day.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: EASTWEST on April 07, 2005, 10:27:53 PM
The discipline instilled in you by the army should be very beneficial though. For a lot of people its simply a mental toughness thing. Good luck.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: jomolungma on April 08, 2005, 03:58:52 AM
Well, everyone's military experience is a little different.  I happened to go through officer candidate school which is by far the toughest thing I will ever do in my life.  We averaged 3-4 hours of sleep a night for 14 weeks, with physical and academic training from 5:30am to 12am everyday.  Then, after Armor school I went through the scout leaders course, which is basically staying awake for two straight weeks while doing tactical exercises in the woods of Ft. Knox.  Then Iraq.  So, everyone's experience is different.  The mental challenges were there in the Army, but certainly they were of a diffrent type and scale than law school will be.  When I said that I felt prepared for law school by my Army experience I really meant that I know what it feels like to suffer for something you believe in, and I've developed a discipline and determination that I think will serve me well in school.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on April 08, 2005, 06:45:23 AM
It might be easier to keep believing in fighting for freedom than fighting for an A in torts   :D

Seriously though.  It'll be interesting to have you at Pitt.  I never really experienced any "older" students in UG (went to U.Michigan).  So even though you're not exactly elderly, you're going to add a lot with your experiences.  And of course the military experience is just really cool to have in a law class. 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: JD_MSA on April 08, 2005, 10:33:22 AM
I think it's interesting that some (not all) of the pre-law folks come to this board looking for advice and then completely disregard what actual law students have to say. 

While it's obvious that everyone will prepare as he or she sees fit, I can tell you, that at least in my case, there was no correlation between law school preparation and law school performance.  I spent the summer before law school lifeguarding.  I didn't read anything other than Sports Illustrated and the Sunday newspaper.  I'm now about to finish my second year, and I have had much "success" in law school.  (By the way, I'm a law school senior citizen at 26.  I didn't come straight from undergrad.)  I don't think that I'm an anomaly. 

I give little credence to the law school preparation materials that purport to tell you "everything you need to know about law school".  First, that's impossible, because every law student's experience is different.  Second, I've seen students come into law school having read all those books; a common problem is that they have rigid opinions about how things should work, and then have to spend most of their first year adjusting their expectations rather than coping with the actual experience.   

No book and nobody on a message board will tell you the "right" way to prepare for law school.  Seek advice from practitioners and law students that you know and trust.  Only you can decide how much weight to give to their recommendations. 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: SleepyGuyYawn on April 08, 2005, 10:46:53 AM
I think it's interesting that some (not all) of the pre-law folks come to this board looking for advice and then completely disregard what actual law students have to say. 

You're so right.  It's funny that student after student can say the same thing, but all of us future 1L's just ignore it.  Anyhow, I definately am listening to what you have to say. 

You know, for all that people talk about reading books about law schools and trying to figure out the "secrets" of doing well, not many people talk about just showing up and doing what the professor advises.  But the professors actually do want students to succeed -- to become good lawyers -- don't they?  Would it be that crazy just to listen to them, instead of listening to something you bought at your local Borders?

Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: fooseball22 on April 08, 2005, 01:33:37 PM
I think that is a great point JD MSA.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 08, 2005, 02:42:50 PM
Thanks everyone for the helpful advice!!!!! ;)
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Fordham1L on April 08, 2005, 08:22:18 PM
This is the first time I have ever posted here, so feel free to ignore me.

I have done well so far, but still have a long way to go.

I worked for four years between college and law school.  I work very hard this year. Like you, I wanted to do what I could to prepare the summer before law school.  I decided against taking BarBri.

I think that if you are going to read anything, it is best to read things that will help you succeed in law school rather than substantive material.  I have found that using outlines and E&E is most helpful in conjunction with what you are doing in class.  The one book I would definitely recommend is "Getting to Maybe."  This book is about taking law school exams and does a very good job explaining how to succeed when writing your exams.  The authors also offer a seminar, and if it is coming to a location near you, I would advise taking it.

I don't think that it will hurt you to spend your summer reading E&E or Gilberts, but I don't think that it will put you at an advantage either.  You will learn all the law you need when you start school.  I think that it is better to use these as supplements to your class reading because often your professor will have different views on the rationale behind the law or perhaps will have different views on what the law should be.

Before I started school, I read Getting to Maybe, One L, To Kill a Mockingbird, and Law School Confidential.  I think that these all got me into the proper mindset to get back into school mode, but I really feel that if I had done anything to prepare substantively over the summer, it would have been a waste.

That being said, once you start school, I would second the recommendations of the poster above who recommended:

E&E for Civ Pro by Glannon
Understanding Criminal Law by Dressler
Gilberts for Property
Plain English for Lawyers for legal writing
E&E for Torts

These books all do great jobs, but I think they are best used in conjunction with your school work. 

A big part of law school is figuring out what works for you, so if you think that it's better for you to read everything in the summer, that's what you should do.  I just don't know how valuable it is to cram all that stuff into the summer when you are going to be learning it all again in school.

Good luck.  Law School can be a lot of work, but if you are serious about it, it can also be a lot of fun and a pretty rewarding experience.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: draino on April 09, 2005, 10:39:32 AM
I think the best thing to read for prep is "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.  A series of lectures he gave in the late 1800s on the development and policy issues surrounding common law (which would include Torts, Contracts and Property). 

Throw Glannon's Civ. Pro. E&E on top of that and you should be good to go.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 09, 2005, 03:16:06 PM
Thanks for the supplementals!  Awesome! ;)

This is the first time I have ever posted here, so feel free to ignore me.

I have done well so far, but still have a long way to go.

I worked for four years between college and law school.  I work very hard this year. Like you, I wanted to do what I could to prepare the summer before law school.  I decided against taking BarBri.

I think that if you are going to read anything, it is best to read things that will help you succeed in law school rather than substantive material.  I have found that using outlines and E&E is most helpful in conjunction with what you are doing in class.  The one book I would definitely recommend is "Getting to Maybe."  This book is about taking law school exams and does a very good job explaining how to succeed when writing your exams.  The authors also offer a seminar, and if it is coming to a location near you, I would advise taking it.

I don't think that it will hurt you to spend your summer reading E&E or Gilberts, but I don't think that it will put you at an advantage either.  You will learn all the law you need when you start school.  I think that it is better to use these as supplements to your class reading because often your professor will have different views on the rationale behind the law or perhaps will have different views on what the law should be.

Before I started school, I read Getting to Maybe, One L, To Kill a Mockingbird, and Law School Confidential.  I think that these all got me into the proper mindset to get back into school mode, but I really feel that if I had done anything to prepare substantively over the summer, it would have been a waste.

That being said, once you start school, I would second the recommendations of the poster above who recommended:

E&E for Civ Pro by Glannon
Understanding Criminal Law by Dressler
Gilberts for Property
Plain English for Lawyers for legal writing
E&E for Torts

These books all do great jobs, but I think they are best used in conjunction with your school work. 

A big part of law school is figuring out what works for you, so if you think that it's better for you to read everything in the summer, that's what you should do.  I just don't know how valuable it is to cram all that stuff into the summer when you are going to be learning it all again in school.

Good luck.  Law School can be a lot of work, but if you are serious about it, it can also be a lot of fun and a pretty rewarding experience.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 09, 2005, 03:17:20 PM
I've never seen anyone recommend "The Common Law."  Can I get that at the library?

Also, where can I get Glannon's Civ Pro book at a good deal?

Thanks!

I think the best thing to read for prep is "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.  A series of lectures he gave in the late 1800s on the development and policy issues surrounding common law (which would include Torts, Contracts and Property). 

Throw Glannon's Civ. Pro. E&E on top of that and you should be good to go.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: draino on April 09, 2005, 05:03:50 PM
I've never seen anyone recommend "The Common Law."  Can I get that at the library?

Also, where can I get Glannon's Civ Pro book at a good deal?

Thanks!

I think the best thing to read for prep is "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.  A series of lectures he gave in the late 1800s on the development and policy issues surrounding common law (which would include Torts, Contracts and Property). 

Throw Glannon's Civ. Pro. E&E on top of that and you should be good to go.

In the two weeks since you started this thread I'm sure you could have found plenty of copies of the all of the E&Es on half.com for cheap.  No idea if The Common Law is available at your library, but they are but a phone call away...
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 10, 2005, 09:10:12 AM
Thanks for your generous help! ::)

I've never seen anyone recommend "The Common Law."  Can I get that at the library?

Also, where can I get Glannon's Civ Pro book at a good deal?

Thanks!

I think the best thing to read for prep is "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.  A series of lectures he gave in the late 1800s on the development and policy issues surrounding common law (which would include Torts, Contracts and Property). 

Throw Glannon's Civ. Pro. E&E on top of that and you should be good to go.

In the two weeks since you started this thread I'm sure you could have found plenty of copies of the all of the E&Es on half.com for cheap.  No idea if The Common Law is available at your library, but they are but a phone call away...
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Kelly on April 10, 2005, 09:38:56 AM
Yeah really!!! ::)

Thanks for your generous help! ::)

I've never seen anyone recommend "The Common Law."  Can I get that at the library?

Also, where can I get Glannon's Civ Pro book at a good deal?

Thanks!

I think the best thing to read for prep is "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.  A series of lectures he gave in the late 1800s on the development and policy issues surrounding common law (which would include Torts, Contracts and Property). 

Throw Glannon's Civ. Pro. E&E on top of that and you should be good to go.

In the two weeks since you started this thread I'm sure you could have found plenty of copies of the all of the E&Es on half.com for cheap.  No idea if The Common Law is available at your library, but they are but a phone call away...
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 10, 2005, 12:59:14 PM
 :D

Yeah really!!! ::)

Thanks for your generous help! ::)

I've never seen anyone recommend "The Common Law."  Can I get that at the library?

Also, where can I get Glannon's Civ Pro book at a good deal?

Thanks!

I think the best thing to read for prep is "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.  A series of lectures he gave in the late 1800s on the development and policy issues surrounding common law (which would include Torts, Contracts and Property). 

Throw Glannon's Civ. Pro. E&E on top of that and you should be good to go.

In the two weeks since you started this thread I'm sure you could have found plenty of copies of the all of the E&Es on half.com for cheap.  No idea if The Common Law is available at your library, but they are but a phone call away...
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: draino on April 10, 2005, 04:10:30 PM
You asked me where you could find BOOKS, what the hell kind of response did you expect?  These aren't magical items, just like any other book, you can most likely find them cheapest on half.com if you have a little patience and, seeing as how libraries are sort of in the business of loaning out books, depending on the strength of your local library, they very well may have any or all of these books. 



Thanks for your generous help! ::)

I've never seen anyone recommend "The Common Law."  Can I get that at the library?

Also, where can I get Glannon's Civ Pro book at a good deal?

Thanks!

I think the best thing to read for prep is "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.  A series of lectures he gave in the late 1800s on the development and policy issues surrounding common law (which would include Torts, Contracts and Property). 

Throw Glannon's Civ. Pro. E&E on top of that and you should be good to go.

In the two weeks since you started this thread I'm sure you could have found plenty of copies of the all of the E&Es on half.com for cheap.  No idea if The Common Law is available at your library, but they are but a phone call away...
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Kelly on April 12, 2005, 06:32:55 PM
A response like this is not worth commenting on! ::)

You asked me where you could find BOOKS, what the hell kind of response did you expect?  These aren't magical items, just like any other book, you can most likely find them cheapest on half.com if you have a little patience and, seeing as how libraries are sort of in the business of loaning out books, depending on the strength of your local library, they very well may have any or all of these books. 



Thanks for your generous help! ::)

I've never seen anyone recommend "The Common Law."  Can I get that at the library?

Also, where can I get Glannon's Civ Pro book at a good deal?

Thanks!

I think the best thing to read for prep is "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.  A series of lectures he gave in the late 1800s on the development and policy issues surrounding common law (which would include Torts, Contracts and Property). 

Throw Glannon's Civ. Pro. E&E on top of that and you should be good to go.

In the two weeks since you started this thread I'm sure you could have found plenty of copies of the all of the E&Es on half.com for cheap.  No idea if The Common Law is available at your library, but they are but a phone call away...
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: carrie on April 12, 2005, 06:33:53 PM
Yeah, really f*! :o :o :o :o

A response like this is not worth commenting on! ::)

You asked me where you could find BOOKS, what the hell kind of response did you expect?  These aren't magical items, just like any other book, you can most likely find them cheapest on half.com if you have a little patience and, seeing as how libraries are sort of in the business of loaning out books, depending on the strength of your local library, they very well may have any or all of these books. 



Thanks for your generous help! ::)

I've never seen anyone recommend "The Common Law."  Can I get that at the library?

Also, where can I get Glannon's Civ Pro book at a good deal?

Thanks!

I think the best thing to read for prep is "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.  A series of lectures he gave in the late 1800s on the development and policy issues surrounding common law (which would include Torts, Contracts and Property). 

Throw Glannon's Civ. Pro. E&E on top of that and you should be good to go.

In the two weeks since you started this thread I'm sure you could have found plenty of copies of the all of the E&Es on half.com for cheap.  No idea if The Common Law is available at your library, but they are but a phone call away...
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Mary on April 12, 2005, 06:42:02 PM
Thanks guys!!  Once in a while you get an "angry at life" poster!


Yeah, really f*! :o :o :o :o

A response like this is not worth commenting on! ::)

You asked me where you could find BOOKS, what the hell kind of response did you expect?  These aren't magical items, just like any other book, you can most likely find them cheapest on half.com if you have a little patience and, seeing as how libraries are sort of in the business of loaning out books, depending on the strength of your local library, they very well may have any or all of these books. 



Thanks for your generous help! ::)

I've never seen anyone recommend "The Common Law."  Can I get that at the library?

Also, where can I get Glannon's Civ Pro book at a good deal?

Thanks!

I think the best thing to read for prep is "The Common Law" by Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.  A series of lectures he gave in the late 1800s on the development and policy issues surrounding common law (which would include Torts, Contracts and Property). 

Throw Glannon's Civ. Pro. E&E on top of that and you should be good to go.

In the two weeks since you started this thread I'm sure you could have found plenty of copies of the all of the E&Es on half.com for cheap.  No idea if The Common Law is available at your library, but they are but a phone call away...
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Lanya on April 13, 2005, 10:20:13 AM
Is "E&E" an abbreviation for something else?  I can't seem to find it simply by typing it in the 'search' field.  :-\
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: draino on April 13, 2005, 05:57:15 PM
"E&E" is short for "examples and explanations"  a series of books published by Aspen Publishing.  They vary in their quality, as different authors are in charge of the different books.  Glannon was the original author and I believe the Torts book was the original one.  The Torts and Civ. Pro. are superior to the Property book.  Have no experience with the Contracts one.
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: NoelleMyBelle on April 15, 2005, 07:09:24 PM
Crim law E&E is pretty good, too. 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Lanya on April 16, 2005, 02:15:35 AM
Thanks everyone!  ;)
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: carrie on April 16, 2005, 05:19:19 PM
Where do you go to law school Noelle?

Crim law E&E is pretty good, too. 
Title: Re: Important question about about prepping for law school
Post by: Lanya on April 16, 2005, 09:07:46 PM
I thought that this post might be relevant to the current discussion...
http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/students/index.php/topic,1692.0.html