Law School Discussion

LSAT Preparation => Studying for the LSAT => Topic started by: chucky on January 18, 2008, 03:01:34 PM

Title: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: chucky on January 18, 2008, 03:01:34 PM
This post is for those of you, who are depressed right now about your prep test scores,


I know many people on this board are gunners who land in the upper 160's or 170's the first time they take a prep test, but for those of you who are more like me (first diagnostic = 147) here are some pointers that may actually help.


1. Don't allow yourself to get discouraged after a low initial score....all that means is you're going to have to work your ass off...but know that with hard work a high score is very possible.


2. Clear your schedule if you can. I made studying the Lsat my full time job (about 8 hrs a day) for four months. Your goal should be to do every Lsat question in existence....and not just do them, but understand them...why you got them right and why you got them wrong.


3. Memorize the Powerscore Bibles like the back of your hand. You should be at the place where you can glance at a question stem and in less than a second tell which question type it is (eg. weaken, assumption, justify, must be true etc). Then the part of the Bibles that pertains to that particular question type needs to be in your mind instantaneously. If you can't do that, you're not ready in my opinion. (As for any other books...don't bother...I bought a Princeton review and kaplan book just to see if there was anything in them...absolutely worthless in comparison. I saw some Testmasters books too, there is almost nothing in them...seriously they are mostly filled with working space.)

4. Take a full length course (I did Powerscore's and took mine in Dallas...amazing teacher, I think he is one of their senior teachers or something...anyways, very smart (I think he has a 177), but more importantly, very easy to learn from)... I chose Powerscore over Test Masters because their terminology matched the Bibles...also, I saw a Test Masters booklet, and like I said above...doesn't even come close to the Powerscore stuff. Kaplan is terrible...at least that is what everyone who I've talked to has said. Their teachers only need a 163 or 164 to teach. Anyways, So as long as you can afford it you should take a course...actually even if you can't you should do this. Put it on credit or something...and here is why. Many of my friends decided to just buy the tests and study on their own to save money, but the highest among them was a 160. With a 169 I just landed a 100K scholarship at one of my target schools, so the price of the course (I think it was $1200.00 or something???) was a sweet investment for me. Think about it. Even an Lsat jump of 5 points can either be worth money to you, or admission to a better school. Another one of my friends who had a higher GPA than mine from my undergrad school scored in the high 150's and barely got accepted at the law school I received the scholarship from...ie. $0 scholarship money for him. So ya, taking a course....it's a no brainer for me….HAIL POWERSCORE!!! (Haha…:))…Oh, and do all the homework!!! I mean ALL of it. I had to postpone my test date in order to get it all done, but it was worth it.

5. Do many of the prep tests completely untimed (I mean like 2 hrs/section kind of untimed…you should completely forget about the timed element initially). Save about 10-15 of the most recent tests for your final month of study to be done under actual conditions (not just timed, but use five sections with a 15 minute break after the third one…same time of day etc.), but other than that, I would do them all untimed. Some people disagree with this advice (and that is fine with me), but doing this allowed me to really master each type of question and understand it. By the end I was consistently between 175 and 180 on untimed tests...ie. I understood what I was doing. Then for the last month all I had to really work on was speed. Take it or leave it, but it worked for me.

6. IF YOU ARE STRUGGLING WITH GAMES...READ THIS. I went from getting 7 correct on my first diagnostic to getting 100% on this section on my actual test. (This advice was given to my by Liz and Linbergh...thanx guys…also read all of Liz’s stuff when you get the chance…she is a sweety and if you read the material in her posts, your score will improve…period).

A) Ok, go to the back of the Games Bible and you'll see all the games up to about 2002 (I think) broken down by game type. Eg. Basic Linear - defined; Advanced Linear - overloaded, undefined etc.)

B) Take all the games and group them according to game type. (put all the basic linear games together...all the grouping games together etc. I made a list in Word and crossed the games off as I went along)

C) Then do all the games of one type and master it before you move on to the next type. Eg. Do each "basic linear – defined” one after the other. I would also recommend doing each game about 3 or 4 times before moving to the next one (my rule was one hour per game…maybe 45min for the easy ones). If you do this for every game type you will be a master at them. Also, follow the approach in the Bibles…I also bought the ultimate setup guide and sometimes it helped….once in a while I would miss an inference shown in it. Honestly, doing this while taking the course is absolute GOLD. If you ever get bogged down on a particular game type the teacher is there to walk you through it. So ya, this is the best way to attack the games in my opinion…hopefully that helps.

7. Pray a lot before the test… :)

Well, I know many people on this sight have a higher score than a 169, and for them this information may not be relevant. For those of you who aren't among the guaranteed 170+ group, though, hopefully this shows you that you too can get a descent score if you are willing to work for it...The path above is what worked for me.

Good luck and God bless.




Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: DerekShiHarvard on January 18, 2008, 05:08:27 PM
I generally agree with everything except taking the prep course and praying.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: The Stranger on January 18, 2008, 07:49:02 PM
Great post. I am trying to go from a 155 average up to the 169 range. Thanks, and I'll take all of the prayers that I can get.  ;)
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: 12345 on January 19, 2008, 08:28:08 PM
Nice post. I did the Powerscore full length too...I agree that you have to do all the work. In my class I think only myself and another girl actually did everything. It was worth it for me too. Good luck to those taking the test soon. (Life is so much better now that it is over... ;D)
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: 12345 on January 19, 2008, 09:21:08 PM

In my class I think only myself and another girl actually did everything.


As unfortunate as it is, that is typical and sad that sooo many people don't do the homework that sign up for classes and then blame the class for not producing the results they wanted.  A lot of those same people also spend a lot of time IN CLASS DURING lecture side talking and not paying full attention/show up late/leave early/stay out on break long after break is over, etc.

Seen it with HUNDREDS perhaps thousands of people over the years.  And they wonder why their score did not improve much.  Duh!  You didn't do the work!!

Jeffort, you're describing my class. Honestly, I couldn't believe how lazy many people were. There was this one group of girls who did absolutely nothing. Then they would whine and complain to the teacher after every diagnostic. (They were the spoiled rich kid types). In all fairness though, about half the class did try pretty hard. To my knowledge though, only myself and this other girl finished everthing. (all the lessons, both Bibles, and all the prep tests). It was worth it though...I think I have a descent shot at a lower t14 and a t20 for sure. We'll see.

My advice to anyone who hasn't taken the test yet is to put in the time. It's worth it. You'll thank yourself five years from now.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: The Stranger on January 20, 2008, 08:52:03 AM
What is the value of the Powerscore Ultimate Setup Guide? Should I purchase that as well? I have not heard anything about its quality. Also, how is that LSAT 2004 reconstructed book?
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: 12345 on January 20, 2008, 10:01:52 AM
What is the value of the Powerscore Ultimate Setup Guide? Should I purchase that as well? I have not heard anything about its quality. Also, how is that LSAT 2004 reconstructed book?

A guy at my course had one so I saw it and flipped through it a bit...it is just the set ups...it is useless unless you have the prep tests, because if I remember correctly it doesn't even have questions in them. All it says is, June 1999 Game #2, and then gives the setup and sometimes some explanation. The book was also incomplete in that it didn't cover all the years. My guess is that it wasn't selling that much so powerscore stopped updating it or something.

In my opinion, it is an extra, and I after seeing it I didn't think I needed it (especially since I was in the course). I would get it only if you are really struggling with the games, and you blow the setup alot. I could see how it would be a good starting point, but it is hardly necessary. I think they could have done a much better job of the book personally.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: upgrade on January 21, 2008, 11:42:30 AM
6. IF YOU ARE STRUGGLING WITH GAMES...READ THIS. I went from getting 7 correct on my first diagnostic to getting 100% on this section on my actual test. (This advice was given to my by Liz and Linbergh...thanx guys…also read all of Liz’s stuff when you get the chance…she is a sweety and if you read the material in her posts, your score will improve…period).

A) Ok, go to the back of the Games Bible and you'll see all the games up to about 2002 (I think) broken down by game type. Eg. Basic Linear - defined; Advanced Linear - overloaded, undefined etc.)

B) Take all the games and group them according to game type. (put all the basic linear games together...all the grouping games together etc. I made a list in Word and crossed the games off as I went along)

C) Then do all the games of one type and master it before you move on to the next type. Eg. Do each "basic linear – defined” one after the other. I would also recommend doing each game about 3 or 4 times before moving to the next one (my rule was one hour per game…maybe 45min for the easy ones). If you do this for every game type you will be a master at them. Also, follow the approach in the Bibles…I also bought the ultimate setup guide and sometimes it helped….once in a while I would miss an inference shown in it. Honestly, doing this while taking the course is absolute GOLD. If you ever get bogged down on a particular game type the teacher is there to walk you through it. So ya, this is the best way to attack the games in my opinion…hopefully that helps.

I categorized all of the games according to the LGB in a spreadsheet and also separated all of the games into individual games and then sorted those according to type.  I just did the main categories: linear basic, linear advanced, grouping, grouping/linear, and then grouped the others together.  If you are looking at a single game for an hour, what are you doing in that time?  After you have found the missing rule/deduction that you were not applying, what else did you do to maintain productivity?  If I do the same game two or three times in a row, I am to the point where I am just working from memorization as to the steps to take.  Did you experience the same?
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: chucky on January 23, 2008, 08:00:39 PM
6. IF YOU ARE STRUGGLING WITH GAMES...READ THIS. I went from getting 7 correct on my first diagnostic to getting 100% on this section on my actual test. (This advice was given to my by Liz and Linbergh...thanx guys…also read all of Liz’s stuff when you get the chance…she is a sweety and if you read the material in her posts, your score will improve…period).

A) Ok, go to the back of the Games Bible and you'll see all the games up to about 2002 (I think) broken down by game type. Eg. Basic Linear - defined; Advanced Linear - overloaded, undefined etc.)

B) Take all the games and group them according to game type. (put all the basic linear games together...all the grouping games together etc. I made a list in Word and crossed the games off as I went along)

C) Then do all the games of one type and master it before you move on to the next type. Eg. Do each "basic linear – defined” one after the other. I would also recommend doing each game about 3 or 4 times before moving to the next one (my rule was one hour per game…maybe 45min for the easy ones). If you do this for every game type you will be a master at them. Also, follow the approach in the Bibles…I also bought the ultimate setup guide and sometimes it helped….once in a while I would miss an inference shown in it. Honestly, doing this while taking the course is absolute GOLD. If you ever get bogged down on a particular game type the teacher is there to walk you through it. So ya, this is the best way to attack the games in my opinion…hopefully that helps.

I categorized all of the games according to the LGB in a spreadsheet and also separated all of the games into individual games and then sorted those according to type.  I just did the main categories: linear basic, linear advanced, grouping, grouping/linear, and then grouped the others together.  If you are looking at a single game for an hour, what are you doing in that time?  After you have found the missing rule/deduction that you were not applying, what else did you do to maintain productivity?  If I do the same game two or three times in a row, I am to the point where I am just working from memorization as to the steps to take.  Did you experience the same?

Here is what I did for each game (the breakdown of 1hr ish per game)

1. Timed: Do the game timed (6-10min)

2. Untimed: Erase and redo the game untimed, this time not only proving the correct answer, but also proving every incorrect answer wrong (20min+)

3. Explore: Erase and try using different set ups and approaching the game in ways you normally wouldn't. Also, use the Ultimate Setup Guide to ensure you didn't miss anything. Doing this may sound strange, but trust me...you'll begin to feel like you OWN the game, and you'll recognize patterns. Eg. After you draw out the rules, and you have a setup, try finding a few hypotheticals that would have helped with a number of the questions...try identifying the templates...in some cases try using a different set of variables as the base etc. If you do this, you'll absolutely rip through other games that are similar.  (20min+)

4. Perfectly Efficient timed (5-8min). Erase, and now that you know the game, redo it with perfect efficiency.


I understand your criticism that you already know the answers for memory, but the point is not getting the answers. The point is getting to the place where you KNOW THAT YOU KNOW how to perfectly attack each game.

I also really think it is really helpful to do the same type one after the other after the other....you'd be surprised how many similarities you'll see within the micro-categories. Many of the games have characteristics that are unique to that type.
Here are the categories...(source: Powerscore Logic Games Bible)

Basic Linear (Balanced)
Basic Linear (Unbalanced – Overloaded); big inferences in these
Basic Linear (Unbalanced – Underfunded)
Advanced Linear (Balanced)
Advanced Linear (Unbalanced – Overloaded)
Advanced Linear (Unbalanced – Underfunded)* key is to identify temps
Grouping/Linear Combo (Harder Category with less inferences)
Grouping (Defined-Fixed, Balanced) (Average Difficulty)
Grouping (Defined-Fixed, Unbalanced – Overloaded)
Grouping (Defined-Fixed, Unbalanced – Underfunded)
Grouping (Defined – Moving, Balanced)
Grouping (Defined – Moving, Unbalanced – Overloaded)
Grouping (Partially Defined)
Grouping (Undefined)


I think there are 125+ individual games that I did this with...anyways, by the end, I felt almost excited for the games section, (and this is coming from a guy who only got 7 correct in the games on my first diagnosic....
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: chucky on January 23, 2008, 08:02:40 PM

In my class I think only myself and another girl actually did everything.


As unfortunate as it is, that is typical and sad that sooo many people don't do the homework that sign up for classes and then blame the class for not producing the results they wanted.  A lot of those same people also spend a lot of time IN CLASS DURING lecture side talking and not paying full attention/show up late/leave early/stay out on break long after break is over, etc.

Seen it with HUNDREDS perhaps thousands of people over the years.  And they wonder why their score did not improve much.  Duh!  You didn't do the work!!

Jeffort, you're describing my class. Honestly, I couldn't believe how lazy many people were. There was this one group of girls who did absolutely nothing. Then they would whine and complain to the teacher after every diagnostic. (They were the spoiled rich kid types). In all fairness though, about half the class did try pretty hard. To my knowledge though, only myself and this other girl finished everthing. (all the lessons, both Bibles, and all the prep tests). It was worth it though...I think I have a descent shot at a lower t14 and a t20 for sure. We'll see.

My advice to anyone who hasn't taken the test yet is to put in the time. It's worth it. You'll thank yourself five years from now.

lol

Classes are filled with people like that and it's very frustrating for a teacher that is busting ass to go over everything as best as they can.  A lot of the time it feels like running day care.  'Sit down, shut up, eyes to the front, look at the book, listen'   ::)

Hence why I get pretty harsh and impatient with some people sometimes and sometimes feel like I am beating my head against a brick wall. 

I could share tons of stories.  For example, there was a girl that showed up to an early lesson (a really important foundational one) HALF WAY through the class right before I called break.  She ran up to me and stuck a little tape recorder in my face right when I called break and demanded that I quickly tell her and run her through what she missed (lesson 2, and she did not even come to lesson 1). 

That pissed me off big time.  Instead of strangling or female dog slapping her I rolled my eyes, told her she should actually come to class and went outside and had a smoke.  For the second half of class she only stayed for one hour when there was another hour to go.  Then she only showed up here and there for brief portions of only a few of the later lessons.

I think she even called the company later on down the road and demanded a refund and complained that the class did not work after scores came out. 

Then there was another guy that I had in class three times three years in a row.  He never came to the first lesson, always showed up VERY late when he actually did, and then ALWAYS followed me into the bathroom after classes he stayed to the end of and stood next to me at the urinal while I peed and tried to drill me with questions while I was trying to pee until I told him to leave me alone and get the 'F out of the bathroom while I do my personal biz in a very harsh way instead of just turning to the side and peeing on his leg.  (but I was very tempted to do that part! lol)

Out of the three times he enrolled he only showed up and took a total of two of the proctored diagnostic tests. 

But, for the people that payed attention in class and that I could tell were working, would I stay late after class and shoot the breeze and answer questions even though I wasn't getting paid for that time and it was late?  Hell yeah!  I love those people. 


haha...this unbelievable...can you imagine :D....very funny to me.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: upgrade on January 23, 2008, 08:15:12 PM
I understand your criticism that you already know the answers for memory, but the point is not getting the answers. The point is getting to the place where you KNOW THAT YOU KNOW how to perfectly attack each game.

I also really think it is really helpful to do the same type one after the other after the other....you'd be surprised how many similarities you'll see within the micro-categories. Many of the games have characteristics that are unique to that type.
Here are the categories...(source: Powerscore Logic Games Bible)

In regard to memory of past problems, it is not the memory of which answer is correct, but the path that I found the answer in the path.  If I struggle with a problem, I am much more likely to remember exactly how I overcame that problem, which is usually missing a critical deduction.  When I rework the problem, I remember "there's something that restricts this pair of variables," which prompts me to find that.  On a fresh game, I don't have that thought lingering in the back of my mind.  I do try to prove to myself that the wrong answers are wrong as well as definitively proving my selection is correct.

I will break the games down further, I think seeing the similarities may help me.  So far this week, I have done each of the grouping games twice.  My timing and accuracy have improved, even when I make sure to eliminate all the wrong answers, but I am not sure if that is because I am familiar with the questions. 

Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: chucky on January 23, 2008, 08:16:05 PM
This post is for those of you, who are depressed right now about your prep test scores,
Good luck and God bless.


Good stuff mainly, but for debate, reality, fun, whatever, I have to comment about a few things.

If you think you will have much time to use that 420hp car in your tar with a Big law job somewhere so you can rev it up and roll, you are in for a shock.  You just won't have much free time for recreation.  It's a nice fantasy though.

Doing all the homework?  Yep. Lot's of people flake out on that and think that because they paid the $ and show up for most of the classes that that is enough.  Oops.

I think your main point is that it takes motivation and dedication outside of class?  If so, YES!  That is a big key to it.  Just getting a class paid for and driving there and hanging out will not do it.  Doesn't matter what class anybody signs up for if they think that is all it takes and don't do the homework.

2hrs for a section is ok at first when everything is brand new, but is to much time for each one except for during the 'virgin' time.  A couple of weeks into it one should not be spending nearly that much time to just do one section, except for review/dissection purposes. 

You were obviously motivated to do the work and it sounds like that was a big part of your success, so let's focus on that part and emphasize it.

(there is not one catch all formula that will accomplish it for everyone without hard work /outside of class study and practice time if one needs to improve a score substantially)

That part is a huge part of it.   Congrats on your success.

I like the praying part too, it can help, or at the least it will comfort your soul!


I agree with everything you said....this definitely isn't a formula, as there are many different paths that people have taken and succeeded with this test. This is just what worked for me.

Also, "by 2hrs/ section" I meant completely forget about the time element..it just as well could have been "5hrs/section or whatever"...the point was to forget about the timed element all together until you have mastered each question type.....and yes, it does make sense that as you progress you will naturally become faster. I think many people have a hard time letting the time element go though (at least others in my class did)...so that is what I said 2hrs/section...now that I think about it though, for my first couple I probably took at least that or longer...when it was a month before the test though, it would have driven me crazy to spend that amount of time on each section....so ya, I agree with what you were saying about this too.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: chucky on January 23, 2008, 08:19:58 PM

In my class I think only myself and another girl actually did everything.


 I love those people. 


haha...this unbelievable...can you imagine :D....very funny to me.

he he,  those are just 2 of many stories.  At many times I have been thinking "Why are we even here, this is not a bar to pick up women at, why did you 'forget' to bring your books AGAIN? You figured out how to find the place, could you figure out how to bring the little book with you and try to time traffic too?"

Comfortably Numb-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=invo5D6SuBQ

Common mentality:  'I paid the $$ for the class and got here a few times, that should be enough'   :D



Haha...I love it. :D
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: chucky on January 23, 2008, 08:41:15 PM
I understand your criticism that you already know the answers for memory, but the point is not getting the answers. The point is getting to the place where you KNOW THAT YOU KNOW how to perfectly attack each game.

I also really think it is really helpful to do the same type one after the other after the other....you'd be surprised how many similarities you'll see within the micro-categories. Many of the games have characteristics that are unique to that type.
Here are the categories...(source: Powerscore Logic Games Bible)

In regard to memory of past problems, it is not the memory of which answer is correct, but the path that I found the answer in the path.  If I struggle with a problem, I am much more likely to remember exactly how I overcame that problem, which is usually missing a critical deduction.  When I rework the problem, I remember "there's something that restricts this pair of variables," which prompts me to find that.  On a fresh game, I don't have that thought lingering in the back of my mind.  I do try to prove to myself that the wrong answers are wrong as well as definitively proving my selection is correct.

I will break the games down further, I think seeing the similarities may help me.  So far this week, I have done each of the grouping games twice.  My timing and accuracy have improved, even when I make sure to eliminate all the wrong answers, but I am not sure if that is because I am familiar with the questions. 

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

I think you'll be fine...you sound like you're on the right track.

Whatever you do, before you move on to the next game ask yourself this..."Do I own this game?" If you can say yes, then you're fine. For me it took me the 4 Step 1hr ish process I mentioned. Good luck.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: 12345 on January 24, 2008, 03:37:46 PM
6. IF YOU ARE STRUGGLING WITH GAMES...READ THIS. I went from getting 7 correct on my first diagnostic to getting 100% on this section on my actual test. (This advice was given to my by Liz and Linbergh...thanx guys…also read all of Liz’s stuff when you get the chance…she is a sweety and if you read the material in her posts, your score will improve…period).

A) Ok, go to the back of the Games Bible and you'll see all the games up to about 2002 (I think) broken down by game type. Eg. Basic Linear - defined; Advanced Linear - overloaded, undefined etc.)

B) Take all the games and group them according to game type. (put all the basic linear games together...all the grouping games together etc. I made a list in Word and crossed the games off as I went along)

C) Then do all the games of one type and master it before you move on to the next type. Eg. Do each "basic linear – defined” one after the other. I would also recommend doing each game about 3 or 4 times before moving to the next one (my rule was one hour per game…maybe 45min for the easy ones). If you do this for every game type you will be a master at them. Also, follow the approach in the Bibles…I also bought the ultimate setup guide and sometimes it helped….once in a while I would miss an inference shown in it. Honestly, doing this while taking the course is absolute GOLD. If you ever get bogged down on a particular game type the teacher is there to walk you through it. So ya, this is the best way to attack the games in my opinion…hopefully that helps.

I categorized all of the games according to the LGB in a spreadsheet and also separated all of the games into individual games and then sorted those according to type.  I just did the main categories: linear basic, linear advanced, grouping, grouping/linear, and then grouped the others together.  If you are looking at a single game for an hour, what are you doing in that time?  After you have found the missing rule/deduction that you were not applying, what else did you do to maintain productivity?  If I do the same game two or three times in a row, I am to the point where I am just working from memorization as to the steps to take.  Did you experience the same?

Here is what I did for each game (the breakdown of 1hr ish per game)

1. Timed: Do the game timed (6-10min)

2. Untimed: Erase and redo the game untimed, this time not only proving the correct answer, but also proving every incorrect answer wrong (20min+)

3. Explore: Erase and try using different set ups and approaching the game in ways you normally wouldn't. Also, use the Ultimate Setup Guide to ensure you didn't miss anything. Doing this may sound strange, but trust me...you'll begin to feel like you OWN the game, and you'll recognize patterns. Eg. After you draw out the rules, and you have a setup, try finding a few hypotheticals that would have helped with a number of the questions...try identifying the templates...in some cases try using a different set of variables as the base etc. If you do this, you'll absolutely rip through other games that are similar.  (20min+)

4. Perfectly Efficient timed (5-8min). Erase, and now that you know the game, redo it with perfect efficiency.


I understand your criticism that you already know the answers for memory, but the point is not getting the answers. The point is getting to the place where you KNOW THAT YOU KNOW how to perfectly attack each game.

I also really think it is really helpful to do the same type one after the other after the other....you'd be surprised how many similarities you'll see within the micro-categories. Many of the games have characteristics that are unique to that type.
Here are the categories...(source: Powerscore Logic Games Bible)

Basic Linear (Balanced)
Basic Linear (Unbalanced – Overloaded); big inferences in these
Basic Linear (Unbalanced – Underfunded)
Advanced Linear (Balanced)
Advanced Linear (Unbalanced – Overloaded)
Advanced Linear (Unbalanced – Underfunded)* key is to identify temps
Grouping/Linear Combo (Harder Category with less inferences)
Grouping (Defined-Fixed, Balanced) (Average Difficulty)
Grouping (Defined-Fixed, Unbalanced – Overloaded)
Grouping (Defined-Fixed, Unbalanced – Underfunded)
Grouping (Defined – Moving, Balanced)
Grouping (Defined – Moving, Unbalanced – Overloaded)
Grouping (Partially Defined)
Grouping (Undefined)


I think there are 125+ individual games that I did this with...anyways, by the end, I felt almost excited for the games section, (and this is coming from a guy who only got 7 correct in the games on my first diagnosic....

This is great stuff...you should post it as a separate post so people can find it....My guess is this would solve anyone's game problems if they would actually do it all.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: 12345 on January 24, 2008, 03:55:24 PM
haha...you're exactly right. :D
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: Tetris on January 24, 2008, 04:42:20 PM
Best advice: take as many practice tests as you (think in the ballpark of 30), timed, and go over wrong answer and find out why its wrong.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: chucky on January 25, 2008, 01:41:23 PM
haha...you're exactly right. :D

Yeah, and a lot of those are the same people that whip out the credit card for last minute tutoring.  It is heartbreaking but good for biz I guess.  With people, First off I have to quickly assess "Is this a day care discipline case or a fine tuning case with someone that has been working the stuff?"  and then angle it from there.   

I've blown off a bunch of last minute and other people that wanted to pay and foregone income because they were clearly in the 'day care' group.  That type can be rather recalcitrant and I just don't feel right wasting my time and taking their $$ when I can see that it is going to go nowhere.    Those people also tend to be the ones that are really bitter about prep services they received once they get their score and just want to point the finger and shift blame in sometimes very angry ways and talk poo about it.  Oh well, such is life..


Ya, it is too bad you can't just buy a great lsat score...(maybe they should auction off a 175 or two every year...bidding starts at 100k...;)
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: chucky on January 25, 2008, 01:42:36 PM
6. [....[/color]

This is great stuff...you should post it as a separate post so people can find it....My guess is this would solve anyone's game problems if they would actually do it all.



Alright...maybe tomorrow though, because I'm in a bit of a rush.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: 12345 on February 06, 2008, 09:19:38 AM
bump...for all of you who are just starting your prep for June, you MUST read this thread. Good luck to all.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: chucky on June 19, 2008, 03:55:29 PM
Well, I thought I better come back to this site and give the final outcome of what happened to me by following this study path...My hope is that this will encourage you will your Lsat hopes.

I was given a 66K scholarship from UT in Austin and will be attending there this fall. Being accepted to UT was my BHAG (Big Hairy Audacious Goal) two years ago. I really didn't want to go anywhere else. Getting a scholarship from UT was beyond anything I could have ever imagined at the beginning (especially after getting a 147 on my first diagnostic!)

So don't get discouraged no matter where you are at. Don't settle. You can break the Lsat barrier you are looking for. Right now I'm like a little kid waiting for Christmas as August 25th approaches. You will be too...just don't give up.

God bless :)

Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: meggo on June 19, 2008, 04:15:52 PM
So glad to hear your positive story Chucky and all the advice in this thread which I think I will probably come back to if I rewrite in Oct (a likely possibility). When I did my first diagnostic I was really disheartened, especially when you read stuff online that says, people can improve their scores 10 - 15 points MAX. That is clearly untrue, as the advice in this thread points out and people like EarlCat have said, it's a test that takes practice. The more you practice, the more diligently you work, the better you get. I'm sure this thread will help others
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: legends159 on June 19, 2008, 05:10:29 PM
This post is for those of you, who are depressed right now about your prep test scores,

I know many people on this board are gunners who land in the upper 160's or 170's the first time they take a prep test, but for those of you who are more like me (first diagnostic = 147) here are some pointers that may actually help.


WOAH...my initial diagnostic was also 147. I was practicing in the 170-172 range during the weeks coming up to the test. I understand how much hard work you must have done to get the 169 on the real thing. Congratulations on all your success, you are an inspiration. I hope my June LSAT is reflective of my hard work as well...though I feel like I may have scored below my practice tests. If you don't mind me asking, how were you practicing the weeks before the test?
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: weymo001 on June 22, 2008, 09:44:04 PM
Hi Chucky,

Nice post. I am a graduate student at SMU who wants to become a patent attorney. Last year, I took the LSAT w/o studying and got a 147. After I took some  practice tests and reviewed the Kaplan materials, I obtained a 157. Still I find the my LSAT scores are problematic. Now I am serious considering a full prep course either with TM or PS after careful review.

After talking reps from both companies, I am still undecided. Since you familiar with the local classes for both these companies in the Dallas area, what are your thoughts about Jeremy at PS? Why do you feel that he is effective? Does he allow ample time during class for specific student questions or problems?

I feel that constant practice on LSAC released questions is the key to a better score. I like both approaches by TM and PS. PS has a better approach for the Games. How many of the LSAC released tests has PS prepared solutions? How will PS fulfill my expectations for LSAT prep class? 
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: legends159 on June 23, 2008, 10:16:45 AM
The TestMasters guy who is teaching in Dallas got a 180 on the real thing and is only 18 years old. Nobody can question TM's talent pool.

I'd rather someone who went from a 147 to a 169 teaching me than someone who goes from a 175 to a 180. Sometimes when you just get the LSAT, it's hard to teach b/c you can't understand why other people cannot understand this stuff.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: PaleForce on June 24, 2008, 02:31:44 PM
tagged for future reference- great info ;)
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: csolis on June 30, 2008, 10:17:20 PM
i got a 148 on the lsac sample lsat and i bombed the logic games section and the last sec which i dont know what its called
(is the reasoning?)

i already ordered my LG bible and im taking the powerscore prep test in August, so hopefully that will help

my question is where do i get all these prep tests that u guys are talking about?
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: csolis on June 30, 2008, 10:23:19 PM
and are they good? cause i saw powerscore has some but i guess my question is:
are the prep tests like the books, Kaplan and Princeton Review have bad books, but Powerscore have good one. So is this the same for prep tests?
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: csolis on June 30, 2008, 10:28:38 PM
oh ok thanks for clearing that up ;)
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: Laura Roslin on June 30, 2008, 10:29:03 PM
Buy the three 10 Real LSAT Books (best bang for your buck) and as many of the recent (45-53) tests as you can afford. 

Fair warning: LSAC ships really slowly.  It's not a big deal if you're prepping for October, but you might be happier ordering Preptests from Powerscore or Amazon. (I bought a few last-minute Preptests from PS and was impressed by their turnaround time.)

Good luck!
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: csolis on June 30, 2008, 10:35:29 PM
so which one of the 10 actual prep tests should i buy?
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: csolis on June 30, 2008, 11:04:54 PM
i know but im strapped for cash right now so i can only afford 1 10 pack and 1 of the recent ones
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: csolis on June 30, 2008, 11:09:34 PM
well thats sort of why im broke, cause ive been saving up for the prep course and all the fees for the lsat, lsac and applications.

but ill prob more next week
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: Laura Roslin on June 30, 2008, 11:22:15 PM
The most recent 10-pack is "The Next 10 Actual, Official LSAT PrepTests", which contains tests 29-38. That would be the best place to start. 

SCK is correct - you should save all the money you can to buy the other two books in the next few months.  Increasing your LSAT by a few points can mean tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money. Don't shortchange yourself. :)  Good luck!
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: csolis on June 30, 2008, 11:26:05 PM
the only book ive bought is the lg bible cause i really needed it, but as for the other bible im going to wait on it cause im taking the powerscore prep course and they should provide me with those books right?
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: Laura Roslin on June 30, 2008, 11:31:07 PM
the only book ive bought is the lg bible cause i really needed it, but as for the other bible im going to wait on it cause im taking the powerscore prep course and they should provide me with those books right?

I totally missed that you were taking a course.  Whoops.

In that case, maybe you should hold off until the first class.  Ask the instructor which tests will be made available as part of the course materials.  That should give you a better idea of what you should purchase separately (if anything - some courses include access to all the tests.) 
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: csolis on July 01, 2008, 12:57:23 PM


I totally missed that you were taking a course.  Whoops.

In that case, maybe you should hold off until the first class.  Ask the instructor which tests will be made available as part of the course materials.  That should give you a better idea of what you should purchase separately (if anything - some courses include access to all the tests.) 

thats ok, so thank god i only bought some of the prep tests instead of all of them huh?



HYS in your future if you can find a parking place and pay for the parking permit for an afternoon.


sorry but what is HYS?  :-[
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: Laura Roslin on July 01, 2008, 12:59:28 PM
Yeah, I'm sorry about that.   :(  I should really try not to give advice after 2 AM. 

HYS=Harvard, Yale, Stanford - the top three schools. 
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: csolis on July 01, 2008, 01:07:42 PM


HYS=Harvard, Yale, Stanford - the top three schools. 

yeah right  ::)

All i want is to get into Hastings, and thats going to be a challenge in itself
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: chucky on July 01, 2008, 08:34:16 PM
Hi Chucky,

Nice post. I am a graduate student at SMU who wants to become a patent attorney. Last year, I took the LSAT w/o studying and got a 147. After I took some  practice tests and reviewed the Kaplan materials, I obtained a 157. Still I find the my LSAT scores are problematic. Now I am serious considering a full prep course either with TM or PS after careful review.

After talking reps from both companies, I am still undecided. Since you familiar with the local classes for both these companies in the Dallas area, what are your thoughts about Jeremy at PS? Why do you feel that he is effective? Does he allow ample time during class for specific student questions or problems?

I feel that constant practice on LSAC released questions is the key to a better score. I like both approaches by TM and PS. PS has a better approach for the Games. How many of the LSAC released tests has PS prepared solutions? How will PS fulfill my expectations for LSAT prep class? 

Well, in answer to your questions about Jeremy…all I have to say is he is the best! Obviously he is brilliant being that he got a 177, but FAR MORE importantly to someone like me (starting at a 147) is that his strength is in his ability to instruct. TM may have a kid who hit 180, but can he teach? Jeremy has been an Lsat teacher for 15-20yrs (he told us exactly how many years but I forget). For me, his instruction was more helpful than I can express in a post (so if I sound like a raving fan…that is why).

And for those who are still deciding on whether or not to take a course…hears another part to my story you might consider. I’m not from Dallas (I’m actually from the other side of the continent), but I have relatives there. During my investigation (after I decided on PScore based on the books as I stated in the original post) I talked to one of the girls at the PScore office. She mentioned that Jeremy was one of the best teachers PScore has (she said that Jeremy and the owner were probably the two best...or something like that...the conversation was a long time ago). So I decided to fly down and spend the summer in Dallas with my relatives so that I could be in his class. The cost was substantial, but the end result was worth it...

...So why am I writing all this? Simply to tell you this...Now that you’ve spent all the time and money to get to where you are at, don’t justify a mediocre effort in your prep because you are saving a few dollars in the process. Your Lsat score is arguably the most important factor in determining which school you’ll be at next year. Do you best, and know that you’ve done your best. If that means you need to take a course to ensure that…then take one. Then, no matter what your final score is, you can be proud of yourself and go forward without any nagging doubts of what might have been.

Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: hotdogs on July 09, 2008, 09:34:00 PM
7. Pray a lot before the test… :)

Good luck and God bless.

Ha ha, nice one!
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: kj311 on July 10, 2008, 09:57:55 AM
tag
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: Kels on July 10, 2008, 04:06:20 PM
For what it's worth I don't think ones LSAT score is necessarily a good indicator of how well they can teach the LSAT. Some of the best coaches in sports are not that good as players. You don't have to be ABLE to do something to know HOW to do something. I would go as far to say that people who get a really high LSAT score without studying would be worse teachers b/c when you have that natural ability 'it just clicks' and many times its hard to explain HOW it just clicks.  I would say the best teachers would be those with the highest point increases b/c they would be more likely know how to explain the processes and strategies b/c they learned it themselves and didn't get it naturally. But thats just what makes sense to me. 
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: *devo* on July 15, 2008, 12:55:09 PM
For what it's worth I don't think ones LSAT score is necessarily a good indicator of how well they can teach the LSAT. Some of the best coaches in sports are not that good as players. You don't have to be ABLE to do something to know HOW to do something. I would go as far to say that people who get a really high LSAT score without studying would be worse teachers b/c when you have that natural ability 'it just clicks' and many times its hard to explain HOW it just clicks.  I would say the best teachers would be those with the highest point increases b/c they would be more likely know how to explain the processes and strategies b/c they learned it themselves and didn't get it naturally. But thats just what makes sense to me. 

Great point.  LSAT instructors definitely need high scores, but their improvement and understanding of the material needs to be there. Sometimes I feel more adequate at explaining difficult LSAT concepts than my friends who scored higher simply because I had to work so hard to understand the reasoning behind them.
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: Mori on July 16, 2008, 03:08:34 PM
bumpity bump
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: philosopher on July 29, 2008, 12:39:20 PM
I really needed this, thanks :)
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: Sappho on July 29, 2008, 06:45:23 PM
Wish I found this advice column before the June exam.  I may have done better. 

Funny story really.  When I took the exam, I felt FINE.  I thought I did well, or definately around the low 160s.  NOT even close.  I think partially my nerves got to me, and in the end, I was not as prepared as I told myself.

I will definitely take these suggestions in consideration as I prepare for the LSAT again (February 2009, here I come!).
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: LessThanLiz on September 21, 2008, 11:38:01 PM
Man, I wish I could devote eight hours a day to studying. It would sure beat devoting those eight hours to an actual job (no joke.)

I've performed well on my practice tests so far (taking it on October 4th - have been studying consistently since may and on and off prior to that), but I certainly hope I'm not at a terrible disadvantage because I couldn't devote every waking hour to preparation.

This isn't a criticism of your advice. I'm simply wondering if anyone else was in a similar position and still managed to perform well (let's say, 165+)?
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: LessThanLiz on September 22, 2008, 05:59:42 PM
Thanks. Though, one last question, is it normal to do progressively better and then suddenly have a few bad tests? My practice tests went from 151, 157, 159, 161, 165, 165, 166, 167, 167, 168, 171 to 159 (this past Saturday) and 157 (today.) Like, literally on the nose went backwards. I'm fairly certain it's a mental block but I is it common to have a little pre-fog? How did folks get out of it?
Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: !закон и право! on September 22, 2008, 07:19:09 PM
Thanks. Though, one last question, is it normal to do progressively better and then suddenly have a few bad tests? My practice tests went from 151, 157, 159, 161, 165, 165, 166, 167, 167, 168, 171 to 159 (this past Saturday) and 157 (today.) Like, literally on the nose went backwards. I'm fairly certain it's a mental block but I is it common to have a little pre-fog? How did folks get out of it?

I can assure you that you aren't the only one. I've been PTing consistently in the 170+ range (the past 6 or so tests I would say), with strong LR and LG performance particularily... until today. I scored perfectly on RC (PrepTest 52), did better than usual on games, but bombed LR and ended with a 158. Virtually every question I answered incorrectly on LR I narrowed to two answer choices, and picked the wrong answer choice of the two remaining.

Some reasons: I didnt eat lunch, I didn't sleep well the night before, and frankly I didn't take LR as seriously as I should have.

There are probably multiple factors, but you're bound to have a bad PT occasionally. I'm going to rely on my usual superfocus when the real test day comes, but until then, I'll probably mix up my strategy. Don't disparage, but I would suggest you do the same.

Title: Re: How to go from a 147 to a 169
Post by: just some guy on December 16, 2008, 07:53:53 AM
bump