Law School Discussion

Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job

Re: Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job
« Reply #150 on: February 08, 2008, 08:49:58 PM »
Still waiting . . .

AZWildcat

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Re: Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job
« Reply #151 on: February 09, 2008, 02:24:44 PM »
Since the haters are doing their job, I'll give them more ammo. :)



My view...



Hate on :)

Re: Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job
« Reply #152 on: February 10, 2008, 02:39:23 PM »
. . . I'm secure enough to not have to.

What does your personal feeling of security have to do with their class rank cutoffs?

The challenge was to find a good job open to the average tier 2 grad, not a top 10% tier 2 grad. That job doesn't qualify. There are people in the top 1/3 at top 20 U of Minn, who would kill for that job. A median tier 2 wouldn't get an interview for that position.



Which of the following is an error the poster's argument?

C.) He assumes what he sets out to prove


Re: Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job
« Reply #153 on: February 11, 2008, 09:03:03 AM »
Anyway, I think I have proven OP wrong:

Reed Smith is one of the 15 largest law firms in the world, and it is headquartered in Pittsburgh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Smith

Quote
Founded in 1877, as the Pittsburgh firm Knox and Reed, by partners Philander Knox and James Hay Reed, Reed Smith has built leading practices in financial services, life sciences, health care, litigation and many other areas. Following a decade of notable U.S. and global expansion, the firm continues to pursue strategic and profitable growth to increase its capabilities in key practice areas and geographic markets, to deliver top quality service and to develop deep client relationships.

Here is a link to the directory for associates in that office.  With a little deduction, one quickly learns that a number of them are working here as the first job out of law school.  University of Pittsburgh is ranked in the 50's making it a Tier 2 and the most prominent school on this directory.

http://www.reedsmith.com/our_people.cfm

Starting salary is over $100,000

http://pittsburgh.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2006/01/23/focus3.html?t=printable

Quote
The last major raise that had a trickle-down effect here occurred in 2003, when Reed Smith LLP increased its starting salary for first-year associates by $10,000, to $110,000.

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Re: Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job
« Reply #154 on: February 11, 2008, 10:12:42 AM »
So Wiimote doesnt have to answer: How can a firm headquartered in Pittsburgh be a good firm?  That town is TTT, didnt you see the The Deer Hunter.  Plus Im not going to read all of that smaller "quoted" text.  Show some brevity, or have you never taken a legal writing course assface?  Plus everyone knows that biglaw starts at 125k, how are you going to pay for 300k in debts with a 100 a year?  Well duh, I used my loans to buy prostitutes, doesnt everyone?  Also, I heard that the only people who go to Pitt are TTT losers, and that means that any firm that hires them is TTT too.


Im waiting....

Re: Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job
« Reply #155 on: February 11, 2008, 10:41:31 AM »
Reed Smith [Pittsburgh] . . . .

Reed Smith Pittsburgh doesn't interview average tier 2 grads. If you don't believe me, call them and ask their class rank cutoff for Penn State Law or Pittsburgh or whatever. Alternatively, look at which schools they visit (from Reed Smith Pittsburgh's NALP):

Schools in the T25 (14 out of the 25 schools. All long distance recruiting trips to schools where they have no shot at anyone but median/bottom of the class students.)
---------------------------
Cornell Law School
Duke University School of Law
Georgetown University Law Center
Harvard Law School
Northwestern University School of Law
University of Chicago Law School
University of Michigan Law School
University of Virginia School of Law
University of Notre Dame Law School
Yale Law School
University of Pennsylvania Law School
Boston College Law School
Boston University School of Law
Vanderbilt University Law School

Tier 2 schools (8 out of like 165 schools. Short recruiting trips to interview only the tippy top of the class.)
--------------------------------------
Case Western Reserve University School of Law
Dickinson School of Law at Pennsylvania State University
Duquesne University School of Law
Howard University School of Law
Ohio State University College of Law
University of North Carolina School of Law
University of Pittsburgh School of Law
West Virginia University College of Law

Even Sullivan and Cromwell has a bunch of Brooklyn grads, but that doesn't mean they'll interview the average Brooklyn grad.

Re: Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job
« Reply #156 on: February 11, 2008, 11:12:19 AM »
Reed Smith [Pittsburgh] . . . .

Reed Smith Pittsburgh doesn't interview average tier 2 grads. If you don't believe me, call them and ask their class rank cutoff for Penn State Law or Pittsburgh or whatever. Alternatively, look at which schools they visit (from Reed Smith Pittsburgh's NALP):

Schools in the T25 (14 out of the 25 schools. All long distance recruiting trips to schools where they have no shot at anyone but median/bottom of the class students.)
---------------------------
Cornell Law School
Duke University School of Law
Georgetown University Law Center
Harvard Law School
Northwestern University School of Law
University of Chicago Law School
University of Michigan Law School
University of Virginia School of Law
University of Notre Dame Law School
Yale Law School
University of Pennsylvania Law School
Boston College Law School
Boston University School of Law
Vanderbilt University Law School

Tier 2 schools (8 out of like 165 schools. Short recruiting trips to interview only the tippy top of the class.)
--------------------------------------
Case Western Reserve University School of Law
Dickinson School of Law at Pennsylvania State University
Duquesne University School of Law
Howard University School of Law
Ohio State University College of Law
University of North Carolina School of Law
University of Pittsburgh School of Law
West Virginia University College of Law

Even Sullivan and Cromwell has a bunch of Brooklyn grads, but that doesn't mean they'll interview the average Brooklyn grad.

I don't understand your argument then.  I found one of the World's biggest law firms, which is composed predominantly of T2 grads.  Is your position simply that you have to do well at a T2 to work at top firm?  I don't think you need this post to prove that.  It's simply numbers and probability.  The top 2% of law firms won't hire the bottom 50% of the top 25-50% law schools.  But you seem to asserting it is worthless to go to a T2. This has, in fact, been proven incorrect.  Indeed, $110,000 in Pittsburgh is substantially higher than 160,000 in NYC. 

Or is your argument something greater?  Are only t14 grads guaranteed success in the legal field?  Of course, t14 grads are going to make up the overwhelming majority of attorneys at the nation's best firms.  No one doubts that.  But even if you go t2, spend less money, one can easily find satisfaction in making $60 - $80k paying off debt and doing something they really love.  No Penn State Grad thinks they are going to be making more than a Carnegie Mellon grad in the field of computer engineering. 

Frankly, your pompous attitude is a much larger barricade to you breaking into success in the legal field then a T2 diploma.  But hey, at least you feel good about yourself from behind your keyboard. 

Re: Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job
« Reply #157 on: February 11, 2008, 11:16:08 AM »
I don't understand your argument then.  . . .

This isn't an argument, but rather a very simple challenge. You're supposed to find a good job, which is open to average tier 2 grads. Your answer should look like this:

Name of employer
Description of job
Compensation
Contact person

A job is not some ephemeral concept, the existence of which is open to debate. There either is a job opening or there isn't. They either interviews tier 2 grads or they don't. Stop making this complicated.

Re: Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job
« Reply #158 on: February 11, 2008, 11:19:39 AM »
For example:

Associate -- Per Diem

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: Legal5256@gmail.com
Date: 2008-02-08, 4:43PM EST


Small personal injury firm looking for an attorney with litigation experiene and strong organizational skills who is willing to work on a per diem basis as needed. Email resume to Legal5256@gmail.com 
 



Location: Union County
Compensation: To be determined
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

PostingID: 567508859

Re: Challenge for tier 2 0Ls - find a good job
« Reply #159 on: February 11, 2008, 11:20:15 AM »
I don't understand your argument then.  . . .

This isn't an argument, but rather a very simple challenge. You're supposed to find a good job, which is open to average tier 2 grads. Your answer should look like this:

Name of employer
Description of job
Compensation
Contact person

A job is not some ephemeral concept, the existence of which is open to debate. There either is a job opening or there isn't. They either interviews tier 2 grads or they don't. Stop making this complicated.

Getting an interview and getting a job are two entirely differnt things. Stop trying to make yourself feel better about being a social reject and having to rely on a "discussion board" to pump up your ego.

And by the way, you're not really going to find job listings on the internet for tier 2 grads nor will you find job listings for tier 1 grads. You need to actually be in school to see what jobs are available. If you were in school, and had access to a career services office, you would know that.

NALP directory is not the measuring stick for how one gets a job. If it were, then there would be unemployed attorneys all over the place. It would be an epidemic that was the top story on CNN. Further, most law students and grads don't get a job from a job posting on the internet. They get one by networking, through alumni connections, and by sending out resumes and cover letters to firms that they are interested in.

But you knew that right?