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Author Topic: Howard is up there with the T14  (Read 6275 times)

K?

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Re: Howard is up there with the T14
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2007, 01:05:28 PM »

law school admissions, UG admissions, jobs with firms, NFL coaching jobs... pick your poison


But not college coaching jobs!
B < PL

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Re: Howard is up there with the T14
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2007, 01:07:03 PM »
I think that, speaking in percentages, being black is an advantage for UG and graduate school admissions.  Since blacks, statistically, have less money than whites, it may be more difficult for them to get a decent high school education and/or to pay for college; however, if they overcome these obstacles then they do receive benefits the in UG and graduate admissions processes. 

1654134681665465

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Re: Howard is up there with the T14
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2007, 01:10:27 PM »

law school admissions, UG admissions, jobs with firms, NFL coaching jobs... pick your poison


But not college coaching jobs!

I have always thought this is a dumb argument.  Schools are going to hire the person who is they believe is going to win the most games and, therefore, bring the school the most money.  I really don't think a school would turn down an amazing head coach for being black, just so they could hire a mediocre white coach.  College football (and the NFL) are all about money.  It hasn't always been that way, but it most certainly is now. 

K?

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Re: Howard is up there with the T14
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2007, 01:28:53 PM »

law school admissions, UG admissions, jobs with firms, NFL coaching jobs... pick your poison


But not college coaching jobs!

I have always thought this is a dumb argument.  Schools are going to hire the person who is they believe is going to win the most games and, therefore, bring the school the most money.  I really don't think a school would turn down an amazing head coach for being black, just so they could hire a mediocre white coach.  College football (and the NFL) are all about money.  It hasn't always been that way, but it most certainly is now. 

So, amazingly enough, you're saying the exact same thing that I am, which is that blacks do not have an advantage in college coaching hires.
B < PL

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Re: Howard is up there with the T14
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2007, 01:37:15 PM »
Yeah, I probably should have clarified that i wasn't making a point against you (in fact I agree).  I do disagree that blacks have a disadvantage when it comes to college coaching positions. 

TruOne

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Re: Howard is up there with the T14
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2007, 01:43:02 PM »
You make a good point, but it is up to the individual to impress the hiring firm. You can be from Harvard and be a total @$$ and not get hired. It is good to go to a school that will provide you with connects and many interview opportunities, but the law school itself won't get you the job. Only you will. X law school is not interviewing, you are. They provide the means, but you have to use the available resources to make it to the end.

While personality plays a part I do believe your school plays a BIGGER part in who gives you an offer. Look at Ivy League schools and even T-14 on up. I'm sure they have the same # of A-holes as Howard does, but I'm willing to be all the tea in China that they have a higher interview-to-offer ratio than Howard simply b/c of the name of the school period.
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lalalagirl007

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Re: Howard is up there with the T14
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2007, 01:52:02 PM »
You make a good point, but it is up to the individual to impress the hiring firm. You can be from Harvard and be a total @$$ and not get hired. It is good to go to a school that will provide you with connects and many interview opportunities, but the law school itself won't get you the job. Only you will. X law school is not interviewing, you are. They provide the means, but you have to use the available resources to make it to the end.

While personality plays a part I do believe your school plays a BIGGER part in who gives you an offer. Look at Ivy League schools and even T-14 on up. I'm sure they have the same # of A-holes as Howard does, but I'm willing to be all the tea in China that they have a higher interview-to-offer ratio than Howard simply b/c of the name of the school period.

I wouldn't bet against you--that makes sense. Do you have an idea about how many firms hire on school name alone?

EatYourVeggies

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Re: Howard is up there with the T14
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2007, 02:01:36 PM »
Very few firms hire on name alone and zero would say that they do. Just because they interview at Howard doesn't mean they give equal opportunity to interview.  Many firms set standards at schools outside the T-14 (you must have GPA of X.XX, you must be top 10% of class) that they don't have at top schools.

So they'll obviously go deeper into the class at Harvard than at Howard.  But even a horrible person at Harvard who is a disaster in interviews has a fantastic chance of getting a good job. 


An interview is up to the individual to impress the firm, but your school comes as part of your individual package... X Law School is always interviewing with you.

I got an interview based entirely on my school yesterday.  The guy said he hadn't even had a chance to look at my resume yet; he'd just seen the school and decided to interview me.

TruOne

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Re: Howard is up there with the T14
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2007, 02:02:04 PM »
You make a good point, but it is up to the individual to impress the hiring firm. You can be from Harvard and be a total @$$ and not get hired. It is good to go to a school that will provide you with connects and many interview opportunities, but the law school itself won't get you the job. Only you will. X law school is not interviewing, you are. They provide the means, but you have to use the available resources to make it to the end.

While personality plays a part I do believe your school plays a BIGGER part in who gives you an offer. Look at Ivy League schools and even T-14 on up. I'm sure they have the same # of A-holes as Howard does, but I'm willing to be all the tea in China that they have a higher interview-to-offer ratio than Howard simply b/c of the name of the school period.

I wouldn't bet against you--that makes sense. Do you have an idea about how many firms hire on school name alone?

A lot of the Big Firms down here. A friend of mine from undergrad had similar grades as me after 1st semester in law school. He got job offers from at least 3 BIG Firms in this city. The difference? He goes to G-town, I go to UGA. All T1's were not made equal.
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bloomlaw

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Re: Howard is up there with the T14
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2007, 02:26:22 PM »
The main point of this discussion, imo, is not that Howard provides more opportunities, but that being black provides more opportunities. Which we all already knew.

If being black "provides more opportunities", how do you explain the incredibly LOW number of black students in law school in the United States?

"being black provides more opportunities" needs to have appended to it the following massive qualifier: "assuming that you're a black person who has made it past a certain bar".

the reason for this is exactly what lalalagirl points out: the low number of black students in law school.  employers want black law students, but there's a very small number in general and particularly coming out of the very best law schools.  hence, black law students do enjoy some benefits due to the fact that they are rare and prized.  but only once they've made it to a certain point.

anyway, just my two cents.  i'm just an affluent heterosexual white anglo-saxon protestant male from the upper east side, so if i'm way off in my assessment, please feel free to ignore.

(do i really want to wade into this?  why?)

i agree, i should have prefaced my comments by saying something along the lines of: when b v w applicants have the same hard factors... with all other things being equal, blacks have an advantage...

but 95% of the time, all other thigns aren't equal