Penn 2L taking questions for a little bit...

["Legapp" Stands for "Legal Application"]

Back to the OP...

Are you ever worried Penn will plunge down the T14 rankings for being "over-rated" or gaming US News?  Are you ever troubled by the fact that some people think it is vastly overrated?  Do you find any truth in those accusations?

Heh, I can only assume this impression comes from trolling around xoxo (where I suppose much of the anti-Penn sentiment is directed at Ciollli).  Every school "games" the rankings, to the extent that it means spending money on non-critical facilities like library books or making sure your grads are considered "employed."  I worked at an elite law school before coming to Penn, and believe me, they thought about US News.  Given how important it is to applicants, they'd be fools not to.

I'm not sure how one would know that their school is "overrated," but I know Towelie, Cady, and I have been happy with the professors and resources here.  The name has also carried a lot of weight with law firms, and many of us here received offers from the highest Vault-ranked firms (although I turned mine down). 

While I think a degree of "prestige" is important in these issues, if you want Biglaw, I stand by what I said before--you'll do well to go to any T14.

[Towelie]

Back to the OP...

Are you ever worried Penn will plunge down the T14 rankings for being "over-rated" or gaming US News?  Are you ever troubled by the fact that some people think it is vastly overrated?  Do you find any truth in those accusations?

First, let me say I love Penn. I love it to death. I am probably one of the biggest Penn trolls out there.

That said, am I "worried" that Penn will plunge down the T14 rankings as you put? Hell no. What do I have to be worried about? I don't want to clerk, I have job(s) lined up, and firms are NOT up to date with US News enough to know that Penn is #6 now, much less that it might be #8 next year and #7 the next. So, no I am not worried (though, for the record, I also don't think Penn will "plunge" in the rankings. It might drop next year, but it won't "plunge").

Second, I am likewise not troubled by the fact that some people think Penn is "vastly" overrated. Do I think, according to US News, it is overrated? Probably. But that speaks more of my respect for the University of Chicago as a law school and institution in general than it does against Penn. Also, in no way do I think you would be sacrificing by choosing Penn over the University of Chicago, but I think in ways that US News determines its rankings (at least the public part), Chicago should be ranked higher. Penn is not historically a T6, and while it is building its faculty and attracting a top-notch student body, currently Chicago still has a slight edge in these areas and a few more (though I think Penn has some advantages too, of course). But in no way is Penn "vastly" overrated, but I could hear you out if you thought it could go down a spot or so. HTFH. 

["Legapp" Stands for "Legal Application"]

Do I think, according to US News, it is overrated? Probably. But that speaks more of my respect for the University of Chicago as a law school and institution in general than it does against Penn. Also, in no way do I think you would be sacrificing by choosing Penn over the University of Chicago, but I think in ways that US News determines its rankings (at least the public part), Chicago should be ranked higher. Penn is not historically a T6, and while it is building its faculty and attracting a top-notch student body, currently Chicago still has a slight edge in these areas and a few more (though I think Penn has some advantages too, of course). But in no way is Penn "vastly" overrated, but I could hear you out if you thought it could go down a spot or so. HTFH. 

This is because you're an econ guy.   I think Penn actually gets plenty of students who got in to Chicago, or would have if they applied, because people like me have such a strong East Coast bias (I didn't apply anywhere outside the Northeast Corridor).  I do think Penn should recruit more "star" faculty along the lines of Cass Sustein and Geoffrey Stone, but I love that our newest hires are both great teachers AND have superstar potential (Yoo, Wolffe, Coglianese).  I really can't compare to Chicago, since I didn't look there at all. 

Anyway, this is where personal preferences come in.  From what I've heard of Chicago, it seems like a very different school, but beyond any other consideration I knew I didn't want to be in the Midwest.

[Towelie]

Do I think, according to US News, it is overrated? Probably. But that speaks more of my respect for the University of Chicago as a law school and institution in general than it does against Penn. Also, in no way do I think you would be sacrificing by choosing Penn over the University of Chicago, but I think in ways that US News determines its rankings (at least the public part), Chicago should be ranked higher. Penn is not historically a T6, and while it is building its faculty and attracting a top-notch student body, currently Chicago still has a slight edge in these areas and a few more (though I think Penn has some advantages too, of course). But in no way is Penn "vastly" overrated, but I could hear you out if you thought it could go down a spot or so. HTFH. 

This is because you're an econ guy.   I think Penn actually gets plenty of students who got in to Chicago, or would have if they applied, because people like me have such a strong East Coast bias (I didn't apply anywhere outside the Northeast Corridor).  I do think Penn should recruit more "star" faculty along the lines of Cass Sustein and Geoffrey Stone, but I love that our newest hires are both great teachers AND have superstar potential (Yoo, Wolffe, Coglianese).  I really can't compare to Chicago, since I didn't look there at all. 

Anyway, this is where personal preferences come in.  From what I've heard of Chicago, it seems like a very different school, but beyond any other consideration I knew I didn't want to be in the Midwest.

You're right - I am a Law & Economics guy and that does factor into how I feel. As far as recruiting faculty goes, I am on the Faculty Appointments Committee and meet twice a week with potential new faculty hires and, without disclosing anything I am not allowed to, let me just say we have some of the most amazing candidates I have ever seen and I see a LOT of growth in that area. I am really excited to see who gets hired and we have some great visiting professors right now.

Also, I like Chicago as a city better than Philadelphia, but that didn't play into my thoughts because I hate where University of Chicago is located (sorry UChi trolls, but Northwestern pwn3s you on this!)

[Team Pam]

Honestly, I think the only place where Penn is considered "overrated" is on internet message boards.  In the real world, I'd say the most-overrated top school title goes to NYU.

[Towelie]

Honestly, I think the only place where Penn is considered "overrated" is on internet message boards.  In the real world, I'd say the most-overrated top school title goes to NYU.

Perhaps, but in the end we all get kick ass jobs so who the @#!* cares whether people think we are "overrated" or will "plunge in the rankings". You know? I'm still making 160k, getting one hell of an education, enjoying my time and the people I have gotten to know immensely, and that's fine enough for me! 

[Team Pam]

Perhaps, but in the end we all get kick ass jobs so who the @#!* cares whether people think we are "overrated" or will "plunge in the rankings". You know? I'm still making 160k, getting one hell of an education, enjoying my time and the people I have gotten to know immensely, and that's fine enough for me! 

Agreed -- I'm just saying that on top of all that, I haven't yet encountered a hint of Penn's reputation being anything but stellar.  I've been even more impressed with the faculty and the school's reputation among lawyers and scholars than I expected.

[Towelie]

Perhaps, but in the end we all get kick ass jobs so who the @#!* cares whether people think we are "overrated" or will "plunge in the rankings". You know? I'm still making 160k, getting one hell of an education, enjoying my time and the people I have gotten to know immensely, and that's fine enough for me! 

Agreed -- I'm just saying that on top of all that, I haven't yet encountered a hint of Penn's reputation being anything but stellar.  I've been even more impressed with the faculty and the school's reputation among lawyers and scholars than I expected.

Oh, for sure. Anecdotally, I received a 1L SA before grades even came out and was able to penetrate the California markets with ease, having no connections at all. Penn's name carries REALLY far (because lord knows it was not the strength of my TTT undergrad!) 

[m1]

just dropping in-

studying for exams sucks.  that is all

but to back up what everyone has said thus far, i've been rather impressed with how far Penn's reputation has been carrying.  today, of course, was the first day to send info to firms and judges, so I'll report back when/if I hear anything personally.

["Legapp" Stands for "Legal Application"]

just dropping in-

studying for exams sucks.  that is all

but to back up what everyone has said thus far, i've been rather impressed with how far Penn's reputation has been carrying.  today, of course, was the first day to send info to firms and judges, so I'll report back when/if I hear anything personally.

Are you applying to the EDPA?  PM me if you are.