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Author Topic: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions  (Read 80374 times)

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions
« Reply #750 on: December 17, 2008, 09:56:32 AM »
::also backs away slowly::

Big Boy Pants

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Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions
« Reply #751 on: December 17, 2008, 12:57:24 PM »
No offense, but I think I prefer theor's version of Chicago to Freely's.  It sounds like a better school.  NEway, this thread finally got interesting.

Now back to waiting for a response from admissions.....
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In: USD, GULC, Penn, NYU, Chicago
Out: Not yet
Waiting: HCB and UCLA

Big Boy Pants

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Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions
« Reply #752 on: December 17, 2008, 02:55:45 PM »
No offense, but I think I prefer theor's version of Chicago to Freely's.  It sounds like a better school.

That's fine, but you should just be aware that it's false, and by all indications theor's a nutjob (sorry theor).

Interesting.  Some random, albeit weird and maybe drinking a little too much of the Chicago kool-aid, alum comes touting Chicago as the best school in the country and all the Chicago students here call him an idiot, a nutjob, and a liar. 

[scribbles in note pad]

Not that I would actually believe it is the best school in the country, but I would like to go to a school where professors, alumni, and students feel strongly about their program.  The best profs are leaving, the alum are idiots, and the students are luke-warm about their school.  Chicago just sounds depressing.
3.6x/17X

In: USD, GULC, Penn, NYU, Chicago
Out: Not yet
Waiting: HCB and UCLA

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions
« Reply #753 on: December 17, 2008, 03:00:39 PM »
I don't mean to be antagonistic, but I don't think the best profs are leaving.  Sunstein and Epstein left.  Were they high-profile?  Yes.  But did anyone expect them to teach forever?  No.  The best thing about Chicago is that we seem fixated on bringing in new talent, and we did.  Ginsburg, Dixon, Bradford are young and talented, and so are some of the tenured young ones like Strahilevitz.

We do feel strongly about the program, but we're not nuts about it.  I have an interview.  Tomorrow.  At a big firm.  As a 1L.  Do you have any idea how awesome that is in this economy?  I feel like I wouldn't be here, printing out a writing sample and freaking out over my suit and longer hair, if it wasn't for the Chicago name. 

But my school sure as hell isn't a giant bird rising from some ashes, or a forty-feet peacock embroiled in flames, or a giant banana soaring over Hyde Park.  It's a law school that places well, but perhaps not as well as HYS (and more Y than anything).  That's it.  And I think that's the healthiest and most realistic way to think about it.  Nobody go crazy, okay?  TYIA.

annonymous

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Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions
« Reply #754 on: December 17, 2008, 03:04:39 PM »
Our best profs aren't leaving. Our biggest named prof left. Big difference between the two.

Also, I think you mistake our views as "luke warmness." Like I said earlier, Chicago is the best school for me and for many others. We're unique in many areas (this is where I think some of theor's stuff comes into play and he's largely correct). The flip-side to that uniqueness is that the school may not be right for you. You need to visit and find out.

I'm just disagreeing with his view that "Chicago is the only great law school."

PS: Don't listen to Freely. That last post sounds too bashful. He's also wrong about Epstein leaving. Epstein isn't leaving.
"I'm a genius, but I'm a misunderstood genius."
"What's misunderstood about you?"
"Nobody thinks I'm a genius."

"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day."

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions
« Reply #755 on: December 17, 2008, 03:08:00 PM »
When I was applying to schools, I got a lot of bull from other schools about their "wonderful" dean and "amazing" students.  But I don't think that way, because I'm not swayed by hype, and -- let's face it -- no school has some monopoly on personality or legal education.  Nobody at Chicago tried to put up a front, whereas at other schools people seemed to try too hard to be "cool" and show how little they're studying.  I met a guy here, at the feature friday, who said he worked 12 hours a day.  He made LR, and still gives me advice.  

In short, I met people who seemed smart and down-to-earth and interesting, and that's partially why I came here.  Nobody here will bull you about some Dean Z who passes out chocolate chip ice cream during exams, or how our school is secretly the greatest law school in the history of the world.  Because it isn't.  Not even Yale is.

ETA: annonymous is partially right.  be warned that I'm generally considered to be a cynical person, at least in terms of job prospects, and particularly ITE.

finderskeepers

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Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions
« Reply #756 on: December 17, 2008, 03:31:46 PM »
theor's post was a little over the top, but, to be honest, i have fallen in love with uchicago this quarter for a lot of the reasons he refers to.  I think, quite frequently, about how lucky I am to be here.

Also, I'm not that knowledgeable about faculty and people leaving, but we got to read a lot of (current) faculty scholarship this quarter, and it is truly impressive.   

,.,.,.;.,.,.

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Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions
« Reply #757 on: December 17, 2008, 03:33:21 PM »
theor's post was a little over the top, but, to be honest, i have fallen in love with uchicago this quarter for a lot of the reasons he refers to.  I think, quite frequently, about how lucky I am to be here.

Also, I'm not that knowledgeable about faculty and people leaving, but we got to read a lot of (current) faculty scholarship this quarter, and it is truly impressive.   

Still no hints about who you are?  At the Regents party, I asked the other LSDers, in person, and they didn't know.  So nobody knows.

::mysteries::

annonymous

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Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions
« Reply #758 on: December 17, 2008, 03:46:24 PM »
I like your style.  You do go to the best school in the country.  I don't buy into relativism or critical education theory, I believe I am right.  

I do buy into relativism when it comes to methods of instruction. It seems fairly obvious to me. Hell, its even present at Chicago. I learn better from some professors than I do from others. I find some textbooks better than others. For me, some examination methods are better than others. But in all those areas, I know fellow students who disagree.

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Perhaps It is a symptom of trying a lot of cases, but you don't get any credibility in court for saying "our position is pretty good your honor, but only for us, theirs is pretty good for them, and others are entitled to their opinions, I guess."

Thats one analogy.. Here's another one. When you're arguing before an appellate court, you're encouraged concede issues you know are losers. If you don't, You lose credibility by making claims that the judges know are patently wrong. Arguing those issues makes the judge look at your other arguments askance as well.

I don't think we need to prove that Chicago is the only school in the country that can produce great lawyers. Thats laughable. What we can prove, or at least show when students visit, is that Chicago is the best school for certain types of people. And, as a school, we only WANT these "certain types of people" to attend anyway. But its wrong to say these are the only type of people who will ever become good lawyers. If you make an outrageous claim, you lose credibility on other issues.

Don't get me wrong: I do agree with a lot of what you said. I love Chicago and wouldn't want to go anywhere else, for many of the same reasons you noted. I just don't agree that Chicago is for everyone and that Chicago is the only place that can create great lawyers.

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 I've done the research.  I've seen the products of other law schools.  Some fine lawyers, mostly god awful ones, even ones that graduate with honors.  There is nothing particularly wrong with the pedagogies of other schools, I know plenty of people who went to those schools (and a family member, for that matter).  They simply do not contend with Chicago.  

The Chicago alumni I've seen in the field are, bar none, the best, and I've seen quite a few as opposing counsel and as judges.  I can confidently say I believe everything I've said here truly, which confidence can only be expressed at times by soaring rhetoric and imagery.

Fine. I simply disagree.

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Try and find that kind of enthusiasm in a Harvard Grad.  Hell, I challenge you to find a Harvard Law grad who isn't ashamed to wear a shirt that says "Harvard Law" on it.

Um, ok. I know more than a couple.  

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I happen to be privy Harvard Law alumni magazines from time to time.  Despite its large size and alumni network, it has less than half the responses Chicago's has, and with far fewer entries from people who actually practice and show passion for the law.  I find it quite sad actually.

I guess I can't compare alumni networks, but I will say that Chicago's alumni network seems incredible (and is something you recognize even as a current student).
"I'm a genius, but I'm a misunderstood genius."
"What's misunderstood about you?"
"Nobody thinks I'm a genius."

"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day."

Big Boy Pants

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Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions
« Reply #759 on: December 17, 2008, 08:13:19 PM »

You can disagree with my assessment of Chicago Law and its alumni, but that doesn't make my claim any less legitimate.  By a harvard alum's account, at his orientation they said, "Welcome to the best law school in the world."  I bet they say something to that effect at Yale and Stanford, too, and probably several other schools.  They aren't all ranked #1 in USNews.  They don't all place the best in every field.  My claims aren't all based on this kind of data, but rather something less tangible but real nonetheless, which I have described at length above.  All these schools can legitimately claim to be the best because they have their strengths which they are free to value as they wish-and so can Chicago.  I happen to agree with Chicago's assessment of what makes great lawyers.  I can make that case fervently and with honesty and integrity.  It isn't idiotic, it doesn't make me mentally ill, and I am not wrong.


He (she?) seems to have a point, but yale will apparently always be number 1: http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/legal_profession/2008/09/if-yale-is-1-in.html
3.6x/17X

In: USD, GULC, Penn, NYU, Chicago
Out: Not yet
Waiting: HCB and UCLA