Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: Ask Totally Fun Chicago Students Your Questions  (Read 77879 times)

MindTheGap76

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1795
  • UChicago Alum ('08)
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls Your Questions
« Reply #670 on: August 05, 2008, 12:40:24 PM »
Stupid Internet, lost my response.

Hazard, what are these events you're talking about? I've heard of dinners once you have an offer, but is this something else?

I'm doing 20 interviews in Chicago and 1 interview pre-OCI in another market. If I happen to get a quick offer from the pre-OCI firm then I'll drop my interviews down to ~5 and call it a day. I really couldn't imagine doing more than 20 or so interviews.

Buffett, you already know this, but for others, I'm doing about the same.  Bidding on 28 firms in Chicago/NYC, and doing an NYC pre-OCI callback (which was a nice result from 1L interviews actually).  I would follow a similar format where if I got early offers, I'd probably drop a few firms here and there.  I'm pretty happy with the list I came up with - they're all great firms, but the problem really is that they're all great firms, and it'll be competitive.  Keeping fingers crossed :)

On a side note, it rained and stormed like crazy today, with the end result being me slipping in a huge puddle at the bottom of the subway stairs, and landing sideways in said puddle. Ouch, bruises. And serious need for drycleaning.  I hate rain.

Be prepared to answer "Why are you looking at both Chicago and NYC?" You're not going to be allowed to split cities between these two, so firms are going to want to know if you'll accept their offer before spending a full day interviewing you. I feel like my inability to answer that question, coupled with firms' insecurity about being able to win me over to their city, really hurt hurt my chances at getting offers at certain firms. It may be different for a Chicago/NYC split than a Dallas/Houston split.

I would recommend making your firm decision based on the city you want to live in. There are exceptions - you get Wachtell even though you wanted to work in Chicago - but for the most part you should be in similar positions in each city. What would make you go to NYC? What would make you go to Chicago? I'd really sit down and try to figure this out before injuring your chances at some great firms because they think your waffling on a city makes you too much of a risk.

This is true.  My roommate who was interviewing in Minneapolis and Chicago didn't get any Chicago callbacks until he started lying to the firms and saying he was only interviewing in Chicago.

Do you think it's the same when one of the two markets is NY?  For example I'm pretty much 50/50 between Boston and NY, and I have pretty stong ties to both.  Should I still try to avoid mentioning NY in the Boston interviews, and vice versa?

I think NYC is less picky overall.  I'd avoid mentioning it in either market, but I know when I was doing my DC interviews, I got explicitly asked whether I was interviewing in any other markets, so it may be hard to avoid.

Just make sure you have a good story for each of them.

Hazard

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
  • UChicago 2009
    • View Profile
Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls Your Questions
« Reply #671 on: August 05, 2008, 12:43:26 PM »
Stupid Internet, lost my response.

Hazard, what are these events you're talking about? I've heard of dinners once you have an offer, but is this something else?

I'm doing 20 interviews in Chicago and 1 interview pre-OCI in another market. If I happen to get a quick offer from the pre-OCI firm then I'll drop my interviews down to ~5 and call it a day. I really couldn't imagine doing more than 20 or so interviews.

Buffett, you already know this, but for others, I'm doing about the same.  Bidding on 28 firms in Chicago/NYC, and doing an NYC pre-OCI callback (which was a nice result from 1L interviews actually).  I would follow a similar format where if I got early offers, I'd probably drop a few firms here and there.  I'm pretty happy with the list I came up with - they're all great firms, but the problem really is that they're all great firms, and it'll be competitive.  Keeping fingers crossed :)

On a side note, it rained and stormed like crazy today, with the end result being me slipping in a huge puddle at the bottom of the subway stairs, and landing sideways in said puddle. Ouch, bruises. And serious need for drycleaning.  I hate rain.

Be prepared to answer "Why are you looking at both Chicago and NYC?" You're not going to be allowed to split cities between these two, so firms are going to want to know if you'll accept their offer before spending a full day interviewing you. I feel like my inability to answer that question, coupled with firms' insecurity about being able to win me over to their city, really hurt hurt my chances at getting offers at certain firms. It may be different for a Chicago/NYC split than a Dallas/Houston split.

I would recommend making your firm decision based on the city you want to live in. There are exceptions - you get Wachtell even though you wanted to work in Chicago - but for the most part you should be in similar positions in each city. What would make you go to NYC? What would make you go to Chicago? I'd really sit down and try to figure this out before injuring your chances at some great firms because they think your waffling on a city makes you too much of a risk.

This is true.  My roommate who was interviewing in Minneapolis and Chicago didn't get any Chicago callbacks until he started lying to the firms and saying he was only interviewing in Chicago.

Do you think it's the same when one of the two markets is NY?  For example I'm pretty much 50/50 between Boston and NY, and I have pretty stong ties to both.  Should I still try to avoid mentioning NY in the Boston interviews, and vice versa?

You're right that NYC is unique, but I think it's hard to be unsure about NYC if you've lived there. I don't think NYC will be kinder since there's a decent chance you'll hate living and working there.

In my experience, the "superior" market gave me a much higher offer rate than the "inferior" market. The size of the statistical sample in my case is pretty darn small. If this holds true, then Boston will be tough. I don't think this will hold though. Waffling on cities makes you look like a worse long term candidate. And if you're married to a city, it's just one less thing the firm has to worry about selling you on.

Look at it this way: You're a Boston firm, you have two similar candidates and you have a single slot. One person is looking in Boston and NYC, one is looking at Boston only. The Boston firm should only give an offer to the second person since there's a much higher chance that person will end up at that firm. Maybe there's an exception if the firm has offices in both locations, but that's hard to tell.


To answer your specific question: avoid it, but don't lie. I always said "Yeah, I have to apply to City A because my parents are there" or "Yeah, but I'm only applying to a couple of firms there because they have such a strong X practice, which you have as well."
I'm posting constructively.

Hazard

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
  • UChicago 2009
    • View Profile
Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls Your Questions
« Reply #672 on: August 05, 2008, 03:33:12 PM »
You're right that NYC is unique, but I think it's hard to be unsure about NYC if you've lived there.

Yeah, I agree.  I'm personally sure about NYC (I'm from just outside the city and I've lived in Manhattan a couple times), but I have SO-related reasons to be in Boston, plus I have family and friends in Boston, went to college there, etc.  So I'm really up in the air.

Thanks for the advice.

SO's change equations. It's hard to know if you want to mention that. I think my analysis of the business side of things still holds.
I'm posting constructively.

MP

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 156
  • UChicago 2L
    • View Profile
Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls Your Questions
« Reply #673 on: August 05, 2008, 10:56:10 PM »
Would you guys recommend bidding in only one market then?  I'm leaning heavily towards one but doing the other to keep options open (hope this sounds vague enough that it won't get me in trouble during OCI, lol). 

Hazard

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
  • UChicago 2009
    • View Profile
Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls Your Questions
« Reply #674 on: August 06, 2008, 01:36:56 AM »
Would you guys recommend bidding in only one market then?  I'm leaning heavily towards one but doing the other to keep options open (hope this sounds vague enough that it won't get me in trouble during OCI, lol). 
Yes. I would bid in only one market. I feel the same about wanting to keep options open, but I think you're far better with a single market and a few safety firms within that market.

Don't be afraid to mail letters to firms not doing OCI.
I'm posting constructively.

MindTheGap76

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1795
  • UChicago Alum ('08)
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls Your Questions
« Reply #675 on: August 06, 2008, 02:20:48 AM »
Would you guys recommend bidding in only one market then?  I'm leaning heavily towards one but doing the other to keep options open (hope this sounds vague enough that it won't get me in trouble during OCI, lol). 

I'm not as strongly against doing more than one market as Hazard, but you ought to give it some thought.  Plenty of people do more than one market and get jobs, but you do set yourself up for some challenges.  If you have a good spiel you can spin during the interview and reasons to bid in both, go for it.  If you're just being a pansy about picking a place, suck it up.

It also matters what markets you're considering.  NYC, for example, takes a huge number of people and is much less geography-sensitive, so I don't think you hurt yourself too much if that's one of your areas.

On the other hand, if one of your markets is a real small one, it is probably a good idea to hedge with a larger one.  For example, you wouldn't want your entire OCI to be 5 Seattle firms.

annonymous

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1311
  • UChicago c/o 2010
    • View Profile
Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls Your Questions
« Reply #676 on: August 06, 2008, 05:20:16 AM »
I ended up emailing Paul Woo about the two market thing and he suggested that two markets is workable (at least for DC and Chicago).
"I'm a genius, but I'm a misunderstood genius."
"What's misunderstood about you?"
"Nobody thinks I'm a genius."

"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day."

clairel

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 981
  • UChicago 3L
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls Your Questions
« Reply #677 on: August 06, 2008, 11:38:20 AM »
i actually don't think the two market thing is fatal as long as you have good reasons for interviewing both places. it probably hurts in the market you have less compelling reasons for (probably why chicago firms weren't sold on me), but i wanted CA more and i don't think those firms even asked if i was interviewing in chicago since my reasons for going back were pretty good (family, friends, lived there my whole life, etc.)

but definitely come up with a reason for both because it will probably come up several times.

Hazard

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 211
  • UChicago 2009
    • View Profile
Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls Your Questions
« Reply #678 on: August 06, 2008, 03:00:16 PM »
I ended up emailing Paul Woo about the two market thing and he suggested that two markets is workable (at least for DC and Chicago).

Yeah, it's workable for sure. Definately not fatal.

But it will definately get you a few no-callbacks where you would have gotten callbacks otherwise.
I'm posting constructively.

JusAbstinendi

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 239
    • View Profile
Re: Ask Totally Fun Chicago 1Ls Your Questions
« Reply #679 on: August 06, 2008, 05:30:26 PM »
Quote
i had three interviewers look at my resume and be like "OOOOOH VERY IMPRESSIVE" (i think they thought it was on a lsat curve or something?).

Hilarious.
University of Chicago '11