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Author Topic: How Ruskie got into Boalt with a sub-160 and what she's learned from it  (Read 42904 times)

stareindecisis

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Re: How Ruskie got into Boalt with a sub-160 and what she's learned from it
« Reply #240 on: January 06, 2009, 05:29:07 PM »
I didn't read pages 5-24, and I rarely use this time-waster, but Ruskie is hot.  I mean, really hot.

SomeOldSideRoad

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Re: How Ruskie got into Boalt with a sub-160 and what she's learned from it
« Reply #241 on: January 09, 2009, 02:02:42 AM »
i'm trying to get into Alabama with a 161 and a 2.7 (this i'll also have to edit when I am about to go on interviews) so, I don't know what your GPA is, but knowing you got into Berkeley with a sub 160 and knowing you did it without having minority status (I'm assuming you're not black or hispanic) also gives me encouragement

LawDog3

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Re: How Ruskie got into Boalt with a sub-160 and what she's learned from it
« Reply #242 on: January 09, 2009, 01:33:43 PM »
i'm trying to get into Alabama with a 161 and a 2.7 (this i'll also have to edit when I am about to go on interviews) so, I don't know what your GPA is, but knowing you got into Berkeley with a sub 160 and knowing you did it without having minority status (I'm assuming you're not black or hispanic) also gives me encouragement

Ruskie is not as unique as one may think in this accomplishment. I have tried to tell people that this could be done. Many white students (as well as others, for that matter) grossly overestimate the use of AA in minority admissions, especially when it comes to black and Hispanic applicants, and they underestimate the scope and importance of "soft' factors that admissions committees take into account in their deliberations. And no efficient law school allows quotas. White students (even non-legacies) get into top schools with less-than stellar numbers every year because their overall profiles are strong enough to merit their admission, as are those of the Black and Hispanic students.

It's really disconcerting that Black or Hispanic students can work so hard to get into law school, yet, during orientation week, thier classmates and profs view them with suspicion, as though they really did not "earn" their admission. I have even read posts where people assume that the trend predates URM undergraduate education, so that URM's are presumed undeserving of their undergrad admission and/or strong grades, if they have them. I wonder if people are cognizant of the self-fulfilling prophesy this can create: because of the perceived inferiority of these students, the social stigmatization leads to a lack of, both, intangible and intangible benefits, such as shared notes, study group participation or other communal interactions, that can result in a feeling or marginalization, that may contribute to emotional stress, that may contribute to students' academic difficulties.

Notice that I said, "may contribute", because students are ultimately responsible for their own success, and most students succeed regardless. Nevertheless, marginalization can have real consequences for some otherwise brilliant, well-contributing students. Moreover, it is grossly unfair to lump Black or Hispanic 3.7+/166+ students with those who have less striking numbers, because they have, in fact, met the traditional standards.  But that observation in no way condones the stigmatization of lower-numbered students (URM or not). One can anly wonder how much better URM's law school performances would be if they were truly "accepted".

In other words, all applicants/students need to expand and take to heart their conception(s) of "qualified", as have admissions committees; it will make them better applicants/students. The committees are not wasteful. Do you really believe they would take such mass-scale risk(s) as to admit students who had little or no chance of succeeding at their schools? They admit students because they believe those students have demonstrated, in various ways, the intellect, toughness and integrity to do well. The students with the highest numbers are often not the best law students or lawyers. Are grades and LSAT scores indicative of academic/professional potential/ability? Absolutely! But, they are not the ONLY indicators of academic/professional potential/ability, nor are they, in and of themselves, necessarily the best indicators, a key distinction in the sufficient-necessary dynamic.


 

LittleRussianPrincess, Esq.

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Re: How Ruskie got into Boalt with a sub-160 and what she's learned from it
« Reply #243 on: January 15, 2009, 06:38:52 AM »
i'm trying to get into Alabama with a 161 and a 2.7 (this i'll also have to edit when I am about to go on interviews) so, I don't know what your GPA is, but knowing you got into Berkeley with a sub 160 and knowing you did it without having minority status (I'm assuming you're not black or hispanic) also gives me encouragement

Ruskie is not as unique as one may think in this accomplishment. I have tried to tell people that this could be done. Many white students (as well as others, for that matter) grossly overestimate the use of AA in minority admissions, especially when it comes to black and Hispanic applicants, and they underestimate the scope and importance of "soft' factors that admissions committees take into account in their deliberations. And no efficient law school allows quotas. White students (even non-legacies) get into top schools with less-than stellar numbers every year because their overall profiles are strong enough to merit their admission, as are those of the Black and Hispanic students.

It's really disconcerting that Black or Hispanic students can work so hard to get into law school, yet, during orientation week, thier classmates and profs view them with suspicion, as though they really did not "earn" their admission. I have even read posts where people assume that the trend predates URM undergraduate education, so that URM's are presumed undeserving of their undergrad admission and/or strong grades, if they have them. I wonder if people are cognizant of the self-fulfilling prophesy this can create: because of the perceived inferiority of these students, the social stigmatization leads to a lack of, both, intangible and intangible benefits, such as shared notes, study group participation or other communal interactions, that can result in a feeling or marginalization, that may contribute to emotional stress, that may contribute to students' academic difficulties.

Notice that I said, "may contribute", because students are ultimately responsible for their own success, and most students succeed regardless. Nevertheless, marginalization can have real consequences for some otherwise brilliant, well-contributing students. Moreover, it is grossly unfair to lump Black or Hispanic 3.7+/166+ students with those who have less striking numbers, because they have, in fact, met the traditional standards.  But that observation in no way condones the stigmatization of lower-numbered students (URM or not). One can anly wonder how much better URM's law school performances would be if they could were truly "accepted".

In other words, all applicants/students need to expand and take to heart their conception(s) of "qualified", as have admissions committees; it will make them better applicants/students. The committees are not wasteful. Do you really believe they would take such mass-scale risk(s) as to admit students who had little or no chance of succeeding at their schools? They admit students because they believe those students have demonstrated, in various ways, the intellect, toughness and integrity to do well. The students with the highest numbers are often not the best law students or lawyers. Are grades and LSAT scores indicative of academic/professional potential/ability? Absolutely! But, they are not the ONLY indicators of academic/professional potential/ability, nor are they, in and of themselves, necessarily the best indicators, a key distinction in the sufficient-necessary dynamic.


 

This is all very true. Good post. Thanks.
Russian by birth, Southern by the grace of God.

LittleRussianPrincess, Esq.

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Re: How Ruskie got into Boalt with a sub-160 and what she's learned from it
« Reply #244 on: January 16, 2009, 08:20:34 AM »
business is good. dabbling in a little litigation these days to make up for the slight slump in the corporate work, but i stay busy. billed 203 last month.
Russian by birth, Southern by the grace of God.

Contract2008

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Re: How Ruskie got into Boalt with a sub-160 and what she's learned from it
« Reply #245 on: February 06, 2009, 10:02:46 PM »
business is good. dabbling in a little litigation these days to make up for the slight slump in the corporate work, but i stay busy. billed 203 last month.

Are you in England?   What are your daily and weekly schedules like to achieve 200 hours per week?

LittleRussianPrincess, Esq.

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Re: How Ruskie got into Boalt with a sub-160 and what she's learned from it
« Reply #246 on: February 25, 2009, 08:11:14 AM »
It really depends. Things tend to be more manic when I travel. Longer work days because you want to get everything done as soon as possible and get back to the office so that you can be more available for other clients. Billing travel time obviously adds a lot to the total. When I'm not traveling and when it's busy (it hasn't been in Feb), it's a pretty steady 9-9 or so, sometimes coming in for a few hours on the weekends.
Russian by birth, Southern by the grace of God.

dischord

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At least I can f-ing think.

dischord

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Re: How Ruskie got into Boalt with a sub-160 and what she's learned from it
« Reply #248 on: February 25, 2009, 05:45:35 PM »
I see law school hasn't changed you.
At least I can f-ing think.

dischord

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Re: How Ruskie got into Boalt with a sub-160 and what she's learned from it
« Reply #249 on: February 25, 2009, 05:50:57 PM »
And now I get excited when the temperature makes it up into the 40s. Killself.

How do you think I feel?  Where I am now make where you are, in retrospect, seem like a tropical paradise.

Also, I'm pretty sure that law school has actually just made me dumber.
At least I can f-ing think.