Law School Discussion

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AuthorTopic: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!  (Read 48735 times)

lawstudent2011

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 116
Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2011, 12:40:10 PM »
wow....

2 plus 2 equals 4. You might be simple enough to need to put two apples in a hat and add two more to see it, most don't.

Same applies to debt to income ratios. You make little, you pay little. You make lots, you can afford to repay so it's ok.
It wouldn't matter if we were talking about lawyers or trained chimps at the zoo, it's the same math. No assumption needed.

I get it, you want to cry. Go ahead and cry.

you just like to type randomshit huh?

Oh I just like pointing out when people are essentially making stuff up and presenting it as fact.

the white rabbit

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 362
Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2011, 04:06:39 PM »
wow....

2 plus 2 equals 4. You might be simple enough to need to put two apples in a hat and add two more to see it, most don't.

2 plus 2 always equals 4, whereas not every plausible explanation is a correct explanation.  You offered a plausible explanation as to why people would say don't go to law school, and an assumption is needed if you're going to accept that explanation as correct.

Don't worry, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.  I'm just pointing out the errors in your logic for anyone who might read your posts and get the wrong idea.
Mood: Tired but cheerful.

lawstudent2011

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 116
Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2011, 04:59:01 PM »
as a very wise man once said "don't argue with retards" Enjoy you life fluffy.

wow....

2 plus 2 equals 4. You might be simple enough to need to put two apples in a hat and add two more to see it, most don't.

2 plus 2 always equals 4, whereas not every plausible explanation is a correct explanation.  You offered a plausible explanation as to why people would say don't go to law school, and an assumption is needed if you're going to accept that explanation as correct.

Don't worry, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.  I'm just pointing out the errors in your logic for anyone who might read your posts and get the wrong idea.

the white rabbit

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 362
Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2011, 01:38:57 PM »
as a very wise man once said "don't argue with retards" Enjoy you life fluffy.

Mood: Tired but cheerful.

dalgray

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 6
Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2011, 03:24:35 AM »
Not going to law school may well be a very good choice for many people. It takes seven or eight years to qualify, no wonder it might not be the best choice for everybody.
Why should it take upwards of eight years? The truth is it doesn't have to there are alternative approaches. In England lawyers normally take five years from high school to full qualification at the bar. What you Americans perhaps don't yet know is that they can then take, and they do in significant numbers, the New York State or the California state bar examinations. There is a twist to this it can be one year shorter than the usual five years. In Britain, law students go directly from high school to law school without taking a non-cognate four year bachelor’s degree. There are now two year bachelor law degrees in Britain to qualify you to become barristers or solicitors. I will leave you to look up the differences between these two professions.

The only question is whether state bar examiners will accept a two-year undergraduate regime for a full academic training in the law. In principle it should not be a problem is the degrees include the same number of hours lecture time and tutorial support is the usual three year LLB. The difference between the degrees, is that the intensive courses at two further subjects for two summer terms. In short you dual four years work with their summer vacation on the two year degree.

There is absolutely no reason why American law students shouldn't use this jurisdictional difference for their advantage. The process is somewhat complex but far from impossible the book Law in Four sets out how to do this see the web site at www.lawinfour.com.
While the book deals with how to qualify as an attorney at law in as little as four years from leaving high school, it also tackles the winners costs are English costs system which is now being introduced to some extent in Texas. You will also find that the degrees I'm not all that expensive when compared with many of the US law school fees. The cost of flying the Atlantic isn't that much greater than flying from coast-to-coast within the United States. There is not many real objections to stand up to fault qualifying by the UK.

Another thing that needs to be borne in mind in these times of tight employment is having practical qualifications and above all extra jurisdictional access to the European Union and of course to the very many countries that are within the British Commonwealth. Merely having a bundle of degrees put you in the same class as very many other people but adding jurisdictions put you in a much tighter and more useful class of lawyer. So it's not so stupid to qualify for the UK.

JBrien

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 8
Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2012, 05:32:34 PM »
The simple truth of the matter is that law school (and more importantly a career in law) is right for some people and not right for others.  Unfortunately too many people go to law school for the wrong reasons (money, parents, they don’t know what else to do), and that is why there is so much bitterness from people on law school discussion boards.

So then how do you find out if a career in law is right for you?

1) First you have to conduct a deep self-assessment of who you are.  Think about your strengths and weaknesses; what geographic location do you want to work; do you want to travel in your work; are you more business or litigation oriented; what do you value the most time or money…  The easiest way to do this is isolate yourself for several hours and write down everything you can think of regarding your personality.

2) Learn about the lawyer personality.  Though there are many different forms, types and niches of law, with different personality types suited for each, there is an overall lawyer personality.  The general lawyer personality is characterized by; hard working, type A, highly critical, disciplined, ability to separate emotions from the matter at hand, thick skinned.

3) Talk to attorneys who practice in the niches of law that interest you.  Find out from those that actually practice law what it is like (and not recent grads).  Talk to those lawyers who have practiced for a t least a few years.  Ask them what it is like, and what type of personality is required for their niche.

The fact remains that in this economy it is tough for everyone…  The bitterness concerning law school can be avoided if law school candidates (and recent graduates) where to spend more time researching what a lawyer does, and what the lawyer personality is really like vs. trying to score highly on the lsat or get a high paying job.

Check out the below sites for a more thorough discussion…  Hope this helps!

http://www.become-a-lawyer.com/how-to-become-a-lawyer.html
http://www.become-a-lawyer.com/

jack24

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 1050
Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« Reply #66 on: February 24, 2012, 01:43:14 PM »
I appreciate what you are trying to do, but it won't help.   If you don't have any family connections, I would say you have about a 5-10% chance of landing in the law job you wanted before you started law school.  That doesn't mean you can't enjoy the job you get, but much of the research people do is a waste.
I speak Chinese, so I wanted to do international business in China.  I had a connection to an international lawyer at a medium sized firm in my city who happened to have a lot of work in China. (He was a managing partner)   I talked to him several times and got a good feel for his practice and his day-to-day operation.  He said that if I went to a top 100 law school, placed in the top quarter, did law review and moot court, and passed the bar, he'd hire me as an associate.  I did everything he said I needed to do, I kept in touch with him, and I passed a Chinese translation exam with the FBI.  Unfortunately, I finished school in 2011 and he was getting 20-30 resume's from Ivy educated lawyers every month.  He told me he couldn't justify hiring me.    I applied for 160 jobs, I sent out close to 500 resumes/cover letters, and I networked like crazy.  I now do a mixture of collections and personal injury work for a small firm.  I'm fortunate to have a job, but my situation is nothing in the neighborhood of what I wanted.   Most law students go to school with some idea of what they want to do, and the overwhelming majority end up doing something different.

The simple truth of the matter is that law school (and more importantly a career in law) is right for some people and not right for others.  Unfortunately too many people go to law school for the wrong reasons (money, parents, they don’t know what else to do), and that is why there is so much bitterness from people on law school discussion boards.

So then how do you find out if a career in law is right for you?

1) First you have to conduct a deep self-assessment of who you are.  Think about your strengths and weaknesses; what geographic location do you want to work; do you want to travel in your work; are you more business or litigation oriented; what do you value the most time or money…  The easiest way to do this is isolate yourself for several hours and write down everything you can think of regarding your personality.

2) Learn about the lawyer personality.  Though there are many different forms, types and niches of law, with different personality types suited for each, there is an overall lawyer personality.  The general lawyer personality is characterized by; hard working, type A, highly critical, disciplined, ability to separate emotions from the matter at hand, thick skinned.

3) Talk to attorneys who practice in the niches of law that interest you.  Find out from those that actually practice law what it is like (and not recent grads).  Talk to those lawyers who have practiced for a t least a few years.  Ask them what it is like, and what type of personality is required for their niche.

The fact remains that in this economy it is tough for everyone…  The bitterness concerning law school can be avoided if law school candidates (and recent graduates) where to spend more time researching what a lawyer does, and what the lawyer personality is really like vs. trying to score highly on the lsat or get a high paying job.

Check out the below sites for a more thorough discussion…  Hope this helps!

http://www.become-a-lawyer.com/how-to-become-a-lawyer.html
http://www.become-a-lawyer.com/

sollicitus

• Guest
Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« Reply #67 on: February 24, 2012, 02:48:18 PM »
I appreciate what you are trying to do, but it won't help.   If you don't have any family connections, I would say you have about a 5-10% chance of landing in the law job you wanted before you started law school.  That doesn't mean you can't enjoy the job you get, but much of the research people do is a waste.
I speak Chinese, so I wanted to do international business in China.  I had a connection to an international lawyer at a medium sized firm in my city who happened to have a lot of work in China. (He was a managing partner)   I talked to him several times and got a good feel for his practice and his day-to-day operation.  He said that if I went to a top 100 law school, placed in the top quarter, did law review and moot court, and passed the bar, he'd hire me as an associate.  I did everything he said I needed to do, I kept in touch with him, and I passed a Chinese translation exam with the FBI.  Unfortunately, I finished school in 2011 and he was getting 20-30 resume's from Ivy educated lawyers every month.  He told me he couldn't justify hiring me.    I applied for 160 jobs, I sent out close to 500 resumes/cover letters, and I networked like crazy.  I now do a mixture of collections and personal injury work for a small firm.  I'm fortunate to have a job, but my situation is nothing in the neighborhood of what I wanted.   Most law students go to school with some idea of what they want to do, and the overwhelming majority end up doing something different.

The simple truth of the matter is that law school (and more importantly a career in law) is right for some people and not right for others.  Unfortunately too many people go to law school for the wrong reasons (money, parents, they don’t know what else to do), and that is why there is so much bitterness from people on law school discussion boards.

So then how do you find out if a career in law is right for you?

1) First you have to conduct a deep self-assessment of who you are.  Think about your strengths and weaknesses; what geographic location do you want to work; do you want to travel in your work; are you more business or litigation oriented; what do you value the most time or money…  The easiest way to do this is isolate yourself for several hours and write down everything you can think of regarding your personality.

2) Learn about the lawyer personality.  Though there are many different forms, types and niches of law, with different personality types suited for each, there is an overall lawyer personality.  The general lawyer personality is characterized by; hard working, type A, highly critical, disciplined, ability to separate emotions from the matter at hand, thick skinned.

3) Talk to attorneys who practice in the niches of law that interest you.  Find out from those that actually practice law what it is like (and not recent grads).  Talk to those lawyers who have practiced for a t least a few years.  Ask them what it is like, and what type of personality is required for their niche.

The fact remains that in this economy it is tough for everyone…  The bitterness concerning law school can be avoided if law school candidates (and recent graduates) where to spend more time researching what a lawyer does, and what the lawyer personality is really like vs. trying to score highly on the lsat or get a high paying job.

Check out the below sites for a more thorough discussion…  Hope this helps!

http://www.become-a-lawyer.com/how-to-become-a-lawyer.html
http://www.become-a-lawyer.com/

Nepotism. Alive and Well.

PublicServiceAnnouncement

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 7
Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2012, 08:24:09 PM »
So here's an update.  Several months after posting that, I was in a doc review hell job and an opportunity came up in a field where they hire lawyers but the job is a non-lawyer job.  I took the job, did really well in it and had a couple pretty good years learning the ropes.  Then I figured the business out a bit more and have been making solid six figures for the last three years in a low cost big city.  I could pay off my loans this second if I wanted to but they are pretty much wiped out for the most part.

If I wanted to, I could go to a law firm specializing in my industry, but I really enjoy being out of the law and the people I meet are great.  The non-law career is about the same general pay, but being in business generally has a better long term upside than being a businessman's lawyer does.

I guess the point is, the law degree did ultimately kick in a start becoming useful, but that was a really rough time.  The market was really bad in 2007 and it's like 50 times worse now.  I can't say I'd recommend going to law school in this climate unless law is the family business, you get into an ivy or you are just the best test taker ever.  I really feel bad for the kids graduating into this *&^% storm with no jobs and debt coming out if their ears.  We need a pro-growth president ASAP. That's the biggest moral issue of our time in my opinion.  Too much bad policies have created a *&^% storm for young adults just trying to start their lives.  As much as I like Obama, he's got to be replaced by someone who understands economics.  End political rant.

Also, to clear up a misperception, I NEVER had originally wanted to go to big law and I did want to help people.  Now I just make good money and enjoy my life in a relatively stress free job.  I do occasionally help people with legal advice, career advice or with something totally random.

I think I'll go outside and sit by the pool.

legend

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 201
Re: DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL!!!
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2012, 09:04:52 PM »
I just want to say it is very refreshing to see someone post that.

I personally went through the same frustrations. Starting out after law school not getting a fresh student loan distribution and having 0 experience is terrible. When you were a OL watching movies like the Firm and so forth you really expected to be wined and dined for getting a J.D.

As you know it is not how it works and I made plenty of mistakes, went through some sh*t jobs, and so forth after graduation. It was a miserable two or so years out of the gate and I was lucky enough to pass the bar first time on my first try I had friend's that didn't.  While doing doc-review, contract jobs, etc I was not excited and I although I didn't personally complain on these boards  I thought about it.  If I did I probably would not have updated and people would have assumed my life was ruined. I believe many frustrated J.D's make posts like yours, which I sincerely thought about and it  makes posts like yours saying it was terrible are never corrected updated etc. Then linger on boards and OL's and other people read it and assume the person's life was forever ruined.

However, as you came to realize a lot can happen in a lifetime and having a law license can open some doors. Furthermore, education is a long term investment your follow-up posts proves that as does my own experience. I imagine many others would say the same.

Glad to hear everything worked out!