Law School Discussion

Are some law schools "easier" than others?

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Re: Are some law schools "easier" than others?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2007, 08:23:13 AM »
if a school doesnt have the median listed, does it mean they dont curve, or is it an oversight?

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Re: Are some law schools "easier" than others?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2007, 08:46:57 AM »
http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org/ndlsdir_search_results.asp

ohio state has an a- avg?

a- at asu too  and a c is failing?!?!?   

Re: Are some law schools "easier" than others?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2007, 09:04:09 AM »
The higher ranked the school the easier it is.
Why?
Law school grade curves.

If your going to base how difficult a school is I think you have to look at how hard it is to do well there.

Lower ranked schools have harsher mean/median curves. Higher ranked schools have easier, or no curve. I know Lewis and Clarke (T2) used to have a C- mean/median curve, while Georgetown has a B+ curve, and I think Harvard and Yale donít curve at all. Lower ranked schools lower grades by curving to artificially inflate those at the top of the class. I.E. its ďharderĒ to have a cumulative 3.7 GPA with a C- curve than with a B+ curve. A 70 person class on a C- curve may only allow 3-4 Aís for the entire section, while a B+ school may allow 15-2o Aís.

This where class rank comes in, because law school curves can vary immensely between schools you have class rank to show where you shake out compared to your peers. Except at many schools, like mine, ranks donít come out until the first week of the next school year, so for 1L jobs it alls based on your GPA. A 3.1 might actually be top 15-20% at your C- school, but at a school with a B+ curve thatís going to be bottom 50% or worse. People like to think that every firm knows every schools grading curve, they donít, your 3.2 at a C- school looks crappy compared to a 3.7 with no curve.

Why is there almost zero academic attrition at top schools? Because its almost impossible to fail out. Show up, write some gibbersish and you will get a C+ at a school with a B+ curve, do that at a school with a C- curve and your getting a D or worse, they have to give out Dís and Fís there to make the curve work out because the mean is so low. Our cruve is a 3.0 mean meadian, I have only ever seen 1 F in four years, and the person did not turn in the exam. law schools don't give F's, unless the curve makes you give F's.

The hardest part about Yale Law School is getting in, the easiest part is having a high GPA, the easiest part about Cooley law is getting in, the hardest part is having a high GPA.

I donít think brain power has much to do with it, some, but not enough to offset the curves. Law exams are completely, 100% subjective. Your grade in part has to do with your knowledge of the material, but also in part how well you write, when your exam got graded (first or last) and what the prof had for lunch that day.


Couldn't you sue a public law school for giving you a C+ grade but then making it a D/F because of the curve? They donít do that in college! I know I would be raising hell and burning down the school...

Kirk Lazarus

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Re: Are some law schools "easier" than others?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2007, 09:05:29 AM »
This will have grading information for each school.

http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org/ndlsdir_search_quick.asp



http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org/ndlsdir_search_results.asp

this cant be right.  a b at yale = fail?


thats so screwed up it makes the system worthless!


Yale has grades: Honors, Pass, Low Pass, Fail

Nobody fails. low passes are very rare.

Miss P

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Re: Are some law schools "easier" than others?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2007, 09:49:25 AM »
http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org/ndlsdir_search_results.asp

ohio state has an a- avg?

a- at asu too  and a c is failing?!?!?   

I think you are slightly misreading these scales, as the numerical systems are listed next to A-F but described as alternative grading methods.

But beyond the psychological impact of getting a lot of As or a lot of Cs, I don't really know why the placement of the median along the A-F scale matters.  Unless employers are really unfamiliar with the school, they will know what an A or a C from the school means and how common it is.  And if they are unfamiliar with a school, they usually evaluate applicants by (or attempt to gauge) class rank.  Only a small number of schools -- most elite, and a handful alternative -- do not provide class rank or the data necessary to reverse-engineer it.

Also, btw, your links to search results don't work for us because they're cookie-dependent, I think. :)

->Soon

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Re: Are some law schools "easier" than others?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2007, 09:58:43 AM »
http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org/ndlsdir_search_results.asp

ohio state has an a- avg?

a- at asu too  and a c is failing?!?!?   

I think you are slightly misreading these scales, as the numerical systems are listed next to A-F but described as alternative grading methods.

But beyond the psychological impact of getting a lot of As or a lot of Cs, I don't really know why the placement of the median along the A-F scale matters.  Unless employers are really unfamiliar with the school, they will know what an A or a C from the school means and how common it is.  And if they are unfamiliar with a school, they usually evaluate applicants by (or attempt to gauge) class rank.  Only a small number of schools -- most elite, and a handful alternative -- do not provide class rank or the data necessary to reverse-engineer it.

Also, btw, your links to search results don't work for us because they're cookie-dependent, I think. :)

yeah, i noticed that.  grrrrrrrrr

Re: Are some law schools "easier" than others?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2007, 10:46:15 AM »
Matthies with some scary straight talk!

paratactical

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Re: Are some law schools "easier" than others?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2007, 11:55:00 AM »
baff.


Though when it pops up in two weeks with a million replies from LindyLooWhoo, I may regret it.

t...

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Re: Are some law schools "easier" than others?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2007, 01:18:33 AM »
http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org/ndlsdir_search_results.asp

ohio state has an a- avg?

a- at asu too  and a c is failing?!?!?   

I think you are slightly misreading these scales, as the numerical systems are listed next to A-F but described as alternative grading methods.

But beyond the psychological impact of getting a lot of As or a lot of Cs, I don't really know why the placement of the median along the A-F scale matters.  Unless employers are really unfamiliar with the school, they will know what an A or a C from the school means and how common it is.  And if they are unfamiliar with a school, they usually evaluate applicants by (or attempt to gauge) class rank.  Only a small number of schools -- most elite, and a handful alternative -- do not provide class rank or the data necessary to reverse-engineer it.

Also, btw, your links to search results don't work for us because they're cookie-dependent, I think. :)

TC.  The curve is essentially irrelevant in law school, as most employers go by class rank, and this eliminates the curve as a factor. 

The only time it matters is when a school drops people below a certain GPA (or cuts scholarships at that point.)

Eh, not quite.

Though you'd think that most hiring partners would look at class rank as an indication of law school performance, there are many cases in which they do actually look at grades.

For one, most firms have a GPA cut-off. This would negatively affect law schools that do not inflate their grades (Notre Dame and a good number of T3's do not practice grade inflation).

Also, some schools do not rank at all. Granted, the number of schools that do not rank are in the small minority (Notre Dame and U-Dub are two that come to mind), and those that do probably enjoy a great reputation and/or are already well-known for not ranking.

But the point is that many firms do indeed look at grades, and because grades are affected by a curve, a curve can indeed be very relevant (especially if you aren't fortunate to get OCI).

Miss P

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Re: Are some law schools "easier" than others?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2007, 01:21:55 AM »
Eh, not quite.

Though you'd think that most hiring partners would look at class rank as an indication of law school performance, there are many cases in which they do actually look at grades.

For one, most firms have a GPA cut-off. This would negatively affect law schools that do not inflate their grades (Notre Dame and a good number of T3's do not practice grade inflation).

Also, some schools do not rank at all. Granted, the number of schools that do not rank are in the small minority (Notre Dame and U-Dub are two that come to mind), and those that do probably enjoy a great reputation and/or are already well-known for not ranking.

But the point is that many firms do indeed look at grades, and because grades are affected by a curve, a curve can indeed be very relevant (especially if you aren't fortunate to get OCI).

I think this is essentially right.  GPA cutoffs do affect people outside of law school-based decisions, definitely.  I still think based on my knowledge of the way firms reverse-engineer class ranks for Chicago and Stanford students that most firms also do this for other schools whose grading policies and class ranks are supposed to be more opaque.