Is Iowa overrated?

[Majmun]

Northwestern is a Big 10 school, even though they have Ivy league-ish athletics   

[CoxlessPair]

I know we are not just talking Chicago placement but here are the BigLaw numbers for school placement. I've bolded the schools we have been talking about.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/08/chicago-il.html

By percentile of the class:


12 Northwestern 29.6%
6 Chicago 27.6%
27 Illinois 16.5%
8 Michigan 8.7%
22 Notre Dame 8.6%
3 Harvard 5.4%
37 Indiana 4.8%
32 Wisconsin 3.7%
22 Iowa 3.6%
17 Vanderbilt 3.5%
2 Stanford 3.5%
80 DePaul 3.3%
19 WUSTL 3.2%
70 Loyola 3.1%
11 Duke 3.0%
1 Yale 3.0%
60 Kent 2.7%
7 Penn 2.5%
8 Virginia 2.1%
60 Missouri 2.0%
34 BYU 2.0%
22 W&L 1.5%
14 Georgetown 1.4%
FTT Southern 1.2%
8 Boalt 1.1%
4 NYU 1.1%
19 Minnesota 1.1%
4 Columbia 1.1%
13 Cornell 1.0%
FTT Valparaiso 1.0%
27 W&M 1.0%
39 Ohio State 0.9%


The actual numbers:


12 Northwestern 72
6 Chicago 53
8 Michigan 32
27 Illinois 31
3 Harvard 30
22 Notre Dame 15
80 DePaul 11
37 Indiana 11
32 Wisconsin 10
60 Kent 9
14 Georgetown 8
22 Iowa 8
70 Loyola 8
8 Virginia 8
17 Vanderbilt 7
19 WUSTL 7
11 Duke 6
7 Penn 6
2 Stanford 6
1 Yale 6
4 NYU 5
4 Columbia 4
FTT John Marshall 4
8 Boalt 3
34 BYU 3
19 Minnesota 3
60 Missouri 3
16 Texas 3
22 Boston U 2
13 Cornell 2
70 Houston 2
39 Ohio State 2

[CoxlessPair]

I'll also note that the above list reflects last year's rankings. Illinois is 25 this year.

[TheMaddRapper]

Coxless,

I assume they only included the V100 in that compilation?  If so, that looks about right for all the schools, although I'm surprised WUSTL has such low representation.

Illinois, DePaul, Loyola and Kent are unique on that list in that the reported % can't be too far from how deep in the class V100 firms go, since nearly all the students at those schools want Chicago.  There must be more market-paying firms in Chicago than those represented here, because it would be depressing to think that a V100 will only go 16% into the UIUC class and 2.7% into Kent's.

Just from your personal experience at 2L OCI, did people get interviews/callbacks in a pattern relatively consistent with their class rank, and was there a clear cutoff rank?

[CoxlessPair]

Coxless,

I assume they only included the V100 in that compilation?  If so, that looks about right for all the schools, although I'm surprised WUSTL has such low representation.

Illinois, DePaul, Loyola and Kent are unique on that list in that the reported % can't be too far from how deep in the class V100 firms go, since nearly all the students at those schools want Chicago.  There must be more market-paying firms in Chicago than those represented here, because it would be depressing to think that a V100 will only go 16% into the UIUC class and 2.7% into Kent's.

Just from your personal experience at 2L OCI, did people get interviews/callbacks in a pattern relatively consistent with their class rank, and was there a clear cutoff rank?

Yes, this is limited to Vault 100.
And yes, this is not the most accurate reflection of Chicago placement in that the Vault 100 is NYC heavy. Thus, those schools that feed into NYC BigLaw represent better.

I'm not sure who falls into the 100 from Chicago but I'm guessing Sidley Austin, Winston Strawn, and Kirkland Ellis. The other major market players such as Jenner Block, Mayer Brown, Lord Bissel, etc, firms that hire a lot of UIUC (also probably ND, WUSTL, etc) grads, are not represented.

In terms of Illinois OCI, I do not feel there is any specific cut off. Top 1/3rd is a fair estimation for Chicago BigLaw but when you factor in prior career experience, law review, moot court, etc, it obviously is more flexible. This is hardly unique to UIUC though.
Even our transfer class owned up during OCI last year, with placement in Kirkland, Winston, Jenner, et al.
So in all, I'm not totally sure if I have an answer with you.
I ended up deciding to go JAG early into my 2L so I did not pursue firms in OCI all that vigorously. Despite that, I ended up with 3 firm offers (mid-sized Chicago firm, big DC firm with a small/mid-sized Chicago office, Chicago office of Chicago based international firm) with decent grades, probably close but a bit short of the 33% mark.

[TheMaddRapper]

I am seriously considering Illinois so that's why I'm asking this stuff.

Also, that list was just the V50.  UIUC had about 19% in the V100, which is pretty good, although I don't think there are many really big Chicago firms that's aren't at least V100 (Jenner is #50, I think Sonnenschein is in there, not sure about the rest...)

Good for you with the JAG.  I don't know if that would be for me, but it sounds cool.

Even if I get a little tuition break from Illinois, it still seems kind of expensive.  I'm just wondering at what point in the class do people not have any options, like if you're below top third are you stuck making $40K or worse?  Or can you get some kind of midlaw job?  Just wondering what people say.

[K?]

quality and placement != rankings

TITCR

Iowa has extremely strong faculty.

Also, please keep in mind that the type of people who decide to go to Iowa are NOT generally interested in biglaw.  Job placements based so clearly on proximity cannot be taken seriously when considering how good a school is.

[CoxlessPair]

quality and placement != rankings

TITCR

Iowa has extremely strong faculty.

Also, please keep in mind that the type of people who decide to go to Iowa are NOT generally interested in biglaw.  Job placements based so clearly on proximity cannot be taken seriously when considering how good a school is.

Find a top 30 school that does not have a strong faculty. It is not as though Iowa's faculty is superior its peer schools, thus justifying the ranking despite the poor admit numbers.

Also, you really want to assert that all Iowa law students "generally" are not interested in BigLaw? You are simply pulling this out of your ass.

[CoxlessPair]

I am seriously considering Illinois so that's why I'm asking this stuff.

Also, that list was just the V50.  UIUC had about 19% in the V100, which is pretty good, although I don't think there are many really big Chicago firms that's aren't at least V100 (Jenner is #50, I think Sonnenschein is in there, not sure about the rest...)

Good for you with the JAG.  I don't know if that would be for me, but it sounds cool.

Even if I get a little tuition break from Illinois, it still seems kind of expensive.  I'm just wondering at what point in the class do people not have any options, like if you're below top third are you stuck making $40K or worse?  Or can you get some kind of midlaw job?  Just wondering what people say.

I really do not have an answer for you in terms of exactly what rank at which our grads run into trouble finding jobs. My experience is limited by the people I am friends with and that obviously may not be the must accurate reflection of all UIUC law students.

As I said, I've done well with decent but hardly great grades. I still do know 3Ls that are interviewing however. Some of this is by choice, sometimes they did not have a Summer position to landed them an offer.

[Rule of Reason]

I don't know how the faculty "rankings" work (not USN -- but doesn't someone out there try to quantify which schools have the most big shot professors??)

I'm starting to realize that having an "all star" prof, who can show you quick and easy ways to know the material is important.  However, I have no idea if anyone can really verify which ones are the best.

It's possible though- at my school I think it is pretty objectified who the BEST professors are. Tt seems to be the TREND that the best profs tend to have graduated from the top schools -- and I'd imagine the best schools hire the best professors...