Law School Discussion

Is Iowa overrated?

Re: Is Iowa overrated?
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2007, 05:22:06 PM »
Coxless,

I assume they only included the V100 in that compilation?  If so, that looks about right for all the schools, although I'm surprised WUSTL has such low representation.

Illinois, DePaul, Loyola and Kent are unique on that list in that the reported % can't be too far from how deep in the class V100 firms go, since nearly all the students at those schools want Chicago.  There must be more market-paying firms in Chicago than those represented here, because it would be depressing to think that a V100 will only go 16% into the UIUC class and 2.7% into Kent's.

Just from your personal experience at 2L OCI, did people get interviews/callbacks in a pattern relatively consistent with their class rank, and was there a clear cutoff rank?

Re: Is Iowa overrated?
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2007, 07:19:33 PM »
Coxless,

I assume they only included the V100 in that compilation?  If so, that looks about right for all the schools, although I'm surprised WUSTL has such low representation.

Illinois, DePaul, Loyola and Kent are unique on that list in that the reported % can't be too far from how deep in the class V100 firms go, since nearly all the students at those schools want Chicago.  There must be more market-paying firms in Chicago than those represented here, because it would be depressing to think that a V100 will only go 16% into the UIUC class and 2.7% into Kent's.

Just from your personal experience at 2L OCI, did people get interviews/callbacks in a pattern relatively consistent with their class rank, and was there a clear cutoff rank?

Yes, this is limited to Vault 100.
And yes, this is not the most accurate reflection of Chicago placement in that the Vault 100 is NYC heavy. Thus, those schools that feed into NYC BigLaw represent better.

I'm not sure who falls into the 100 from Chicago but I'm guessing Sidley Austin, Winston Strawn, and Kirkland Ellis. The other major market players such as Jenner Block, Mayer Brown, Lord Bissel, etc, firms that hire a lot of UIUC (also probably ND, WUSTL, etc) grads, are not represented.

In terms of Illinois OCI, I do not feel there is any specific cut off. Top 1/3rd is a fair estimation for Chicago BigLaw but when you factor in prior career experience, law review, moot court, etc, it obviously is more flexible. This is hardly unique to UIUC though.
Even our transfer class owned up during OCI last year, with placement in Kirkland, Winston, Jenner, et al.
So in all, I'm not totally sure if I have an answer with you.
I ended up deciding to go JAG early into my 2L so I did not pursue firms in OCI all that vigorously. Despite that, I ended up with 3 firm offers (mid-sized Chicago firm, big DC firm with a small/mid-sized Chicago office, Chicago office of Chicago based international firm) with decent grades, probably close but a bit short of the 33% mark.


Re: Is Iowa overrated?
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2007, 07:33:48 PM »
I am seriously considering Illinois so that's why I'm asking this stuff.

Also, that list was just the V50.  UIUC had about 19% in the V100, which is pretty good, although I don't think there are many really big Chicago firms that's aren't at least V100 (Jenner is #50, I think Sonnenschein is in there, not sure about the rest...)

Good for you with the JAG.  I don't know if that would be for me, but it sounds cool.

Even if I get a little tuition break from Illinois, it still seems kind of expensive.  I'm just wondering at what point in the class do people not have any options, like if you're below top third are you stuck making $40K or worse?  Or can you get some kind of midlaw job?  Just wondering what people say.

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Re: Is Iowa overrated?
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2007, 08:42:46 AM »
Quote
quality and placement != rankings

TITCR

Iowa has extremely strong faculty.

Also, please keep in mind that the type of people who decide to go to Iowa are NOT generally interested in biglaw.  Job placements based so clearly on proximity cannot be taken seriously when considering how good a school is.

Re: Is Iowa overrated?
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2007, 01:00:56 PM »
Quote
quality and placement != rankings

TITCR

Iowa has extremely strong faculty.

Also, please keep in mind that the type of people who decide to go to Iowa are NOT generally interested in biglaw.  Job placements based so clearly on proximity cannot be taken seriously when considering how good a school is.

Find a top 30 school that does not have a strong faculty. It is not as though Iowa's faculty is superior its peer schools, thus justifying the ranking despite the poor admit numbers.

Also, you really want to assert that all Iowa law students "generally" are not interested in BigLaw? You are simply pulling this out of your ass.


Re: Is Iowa overrated?
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2007, 01:05:35 PM »
I am seriously considering Illinois so that's why I'm asking this stuff.

Also, that list was just the V50.  UIUC had about 19% in the V100, which is pretty good, although I don't think there are many really big Chicago firms that's aren't at least V100 (Jenner is #50, I think Sonnenschein is in there, not sure about the rest...)

Good for you with the JAG.  I don't know if that would be for me, but it sounds cool.

Even if I get a little tuition break from Illinois, it still seems kind of expensive.  I'm just wondering at what point in the class do people not have any options, like if you're below top third are you stuck making $40K or worse?  Or can you get some kind of midlaw job?  Just wondering what people say.

I really do not have an answer for you in terms of exactly what rank at which our grads run into trouble finding jobs. My experience is limited by the people I am friends with and that obviously may not be the must accurate reflection of all UIUC law students.

As I said, I've done well with decent but hardly great grades. I still do know 3Ls that are interviewing however. Some of this is by choice, sometimes they did not have a Summer position to landed them an offer.


Re: Is Iowa overrated?
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2007, 08:40:10 PM »
I don't know how the faculty "rankings" work (not USN -- but doesn't someone out there try to quantify which schools have the most big shot professors??)

I'm starting to realize that having an "all star" prof, who can show you quick and easy ways to know the material is important.  However, I have no idea if anyone can really verify which ones are the best.

It's possible though- at my school I think it is pretty objectified who the BEST professors are. Tt seems to be the TREND that the best profs tend to have graduated from the top schools -- and I'd imagine the best schools hire the best professors...

 

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Re: Is Iowa overrated?
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2007, 09:27:27 AM »
I don't know how the faculty "rankings" work (not USN -- but doesn't someone out there try to quantify which schools have the most big shot professors??)

I'm starting to realize that having an "all star" prof, who can show you quick and easy ways to know the material is important.  However, I have no idea if anyone can really verify which ones are the best.

It's possible though- at my school I think it is pretty objectified who the BEST professors are. Tt seems to be the TREND that the best profs tend to have graduated from the top schools -- and I'd imagine the best schools hire the best professors...

 

Scholarly reputation does not necessarily equate with being a good teacher.  There are good and bad profs at every school.

Leiter ranks scholarly reputation here:
http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2003faculty_reputation.shtml

Princeton review ranks professors based on student surveys here:
http://princetonreview.com/law/research/rankings/rankingDetails.asp?topicID=3

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Re: Is Iowa overrated?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2007, 02:20:00 AM »
Quote
Also, you really want to assert that all Iowa law students "generally" are not interested in BigLaw? You are simply pulling this out of your ass.

If you'd learn to read, you'd figure out that I didn't say anything about "all" Iowa Law students.  What I did say was that Iowa is quite frequently a destination for people with no interest in Biglaw...and yes, MORE SO than its peer schools. 

Re: Is Iowa overrated?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2007, 07:58:26 AM »
Quote
Also, you really want to assert that all Iowa law students "generally" are not interested in BigLaw? You are simply pulling this out of your ass.

If you'd learn to read, you'd figure out that I didn't say anything about "all" Iowa Law students. What I did say was that Iowa is quite frequently a destination for people with no interest in Biglaw...and yes, MORE SO than its peer schools.

Iowa (161/3.6) puts 57.5% of its class in law firms, though this does not automatically mean BigLaw.

Wisconsin (161/3.5): 55.8%

Loyola-Chicago (162/3.5): 58.4%

Notre Dame (165/3.5): 61.6%

Indiana (163/3.6): 58.8%

http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchResults/ShowAllSchools.aspx


Iowa's placement in law firms seems to mirror its peer schools.

It also places about the same # of students in Vault 100 firms (why is simply beyond me) as Indiana, Wisco, WUSTL, Ohio State, and the like.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/09/vault-100-placement.html


Clearly, no interest for BigLaw or any LawFirmLaw.