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Author Topic: Cardozo vs Temple  (Read 2943 times)

Revenant

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Cardozo vs Temple
« on: March 12, 2004, 07:37:39 PM »
EDIT

Hey all,

Any insight on these two schools would be much welcomed! :)

They're both 2nd Tier, but location and cost varies tremendously.  I've listed some info (figures based on previous year) for each of them:

Cardozo - $56,320/year (~169k) - 110k median salary - 80%/98% job rate
Temple - $39,870/year (~120k) - 71 or 92k?? median salary - 64%/91% job rate

I'm considering public interest law but as everyone has pointed out, I shouldn't limit my options in case I want to try BigLaw.  Ideally, I'd like to work either in San Fran, NYC or Boston -- basically any big cities with good diversity.  My pick of the two has been Cardozo, due to its location and much better placement rate.  However, it also happens to be the most expensive by far.  Am I correct that if I want to practice BigLaw in NYC, Cardozo should be my choice hands down?  Temple seems to limit my work possibilities to Pennsylvania, and their expected salary is a bit lower (though that's probably just from their associated lower cost of living).  Oh yeah, Temple has offered me almost $20k in scholarship money (over 3 years, not per year), and I might be able to save some more money by getting the in-state tuition rate since I attended college in Philly for 4.5 years.

Ideally, Boston U would accept me and I wouldn't have to worry about picking from these four, but after recently receiving a postcard telling me they're missing my dean's certification (dang it, must have been lost somewhere in between my school's career services office and their admissions office), I'm about to give up hope.

Also, what if a school like Fordham, UCHastings or William & Mary were to accept me?  So far, Cardozo has given me the best overall impression so I feel a little iffy about going to a school that is relatively unknown to me.

Thanks SOOOO very much in advance. :)

jas9999

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Re: Cardozo, Temple, UHouston, Santa Clara
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2004, 04:32:57 PM »
if you want biglaw in nyc, cardozo is definitely the best choice out of those.

if you want public interest in nyc, either cardozo or temple. of course, 'public interest' covers tons of fields, so it's hard to say. temple has one of the top rated trial advocacy programs, so if that's where your interest lies, and you received money, it would be wise to seriously consider that. i'd talk to them about where they tend to place their grads - whether they stay clustered in philly or if they get a fair number of jobs in nyc.

Revenant

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Re: Cardozo, Temple, UHouston, Santa Clara
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2004, 10:08:37 PM »
heh, as if to make my decision harder, the supposed new usnews rankings has Temple picking up 14 places from 64 to 50, though of course, there isn't much of a difference between the 40s and the 70s so I guess it shouldn't be too surprising.

I guess I'm trying to find a good reason not to go to Cardozo.  They won me over with the way they've presented themselves so far, and I get to start school a semester early and take fewer classes during the regular year (should be an advantage for the tough 1L year).  But the difference in money is almost $70k over 3 years.  Is an advantage in getting into NYC Big Law worth that much?

Revenant

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Re: Cardozo vs Temple
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2004, 01:03:58 PM »
My friend who works in Manhattan says I should go with Cardozo, regardless of the cost, if the school will define the region I work in.  Anyone agree/disagree?

marcman

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Re: Cardozo vs Temple
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2004, 01:35:39 PM »
I fully agree with you, region is HUGE in getting a job after school, out side of the top 10 or so.

Enzyme

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Re: Cardozo vs Temple
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2004, 02:16:29 PM »
The mantra is go to the best school possible with better national placement rates and quality if you want to keep your options open. BigLaw in NYC is defintely worth $70K given your interests. Also, given the cities that you stated earlier, Temple will really regionalize you to Pennsylvania.

A book called Barman talks about the journey of a Temple Law graduate trying to overcome the stigmatism and bias that he faces from not being from a Tier 1 school in NYC job market. There is a book review on princetonreview.com and barnesandnoble.com. Book is a little "law lite" though and just talks about his journey and minndset for wanting lavish things. May be worth a trip to a bookstore for a quick look through just to get an idea of the type if biases out there.

A friend of mine from Philly wanted to go home to Temple after undergrad until she really looked at the versatility of the school (she didnt want to only be able to practive in a certain area in case her interest changed). So after LSAT tutoring/class and much work, she hit a high enough score to get in at Columbia. Although Columbia, is definitely a tope ten and different story, the principle is still there. Cardozo has a better national placement rate than Temple and provides you more options down the road. However, that is not to say that Temple grads (top) cant get any jobs they seek if they market themselves right and can navigate through the biases out there.

Hope my comments were clear and at least provied some food for thought.

Revenant

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Re: Cardozo vs Temple
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2004, 10:14:53 PM »
The mantra is go to the best school possible with better national placement rates and quality if you want to keep your options open. BigLaw in NYC is defintely worth $70K given your interests. Also, given the cities that you stated earlier, Temple will really regionalize you to Pennsylvania.

A book called Barman talks about the journey of a Temple Law graduate trying to overcome the stigmatism and bias that he faces from not being from a Tier 1 school in NYC job market. There is a book review on princetonreview.com and barnesandnoble.com. Book is a little "law lite" though and just talks about his journey and minndset for wanting lavish things. May be worth a trip to a bookstore for a quick look through just to get an idea of the type if biases out there.

A friend of mine from Philly wanted to go home to Temple after undergrad until she really looked at the versatility of the school (she didnt want to only be able to practive in a certain area in case her interest changed). So after LSAT tutoring/class and much work, she hit a high enough score to get in at Columbia. Although Columbia, is definitely a tope ten and different story, the principle is still there. Cardozo has a better national placement rate than Temple and provides you more options down the road. However, that is not to say that Temple grads (top) cant get any jobs they seek if they market themselves right and can navigate through the biases out there.

Hope my comments were clear and at least provied some food for thought.

Hehe, dang... I wish I could retake the LSAT and get into Columbia ^^  Unfortunately, I think my GPA was the bottleneck in my case. ;)

I wasn't aware that Cardozo had a better national placement rate than Temple (I thought both were basically nil vs nil), but yeah it definitely would be alot easier getting into a NYC firm from Cardozo than from Temple (just as it would be easier getting into a Philly firm from Temple).  One thing that really had me worried though was the # of people from Cardozo hired by some of the big players in NYC.  Didn't seem like Cardozo being in NYC helped much. =/

Heh, if Temple is ranked #50 as they are rumored to be this year, that Barman book may have to change its definition of Tier 1 to the top 20 schools.  ^^  I'm really hoping the ranking isn't real because my feeling is that Cardozo is on the way up, and I would like some affirmation even though USNews really is trash. ^^

Revenant

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Re: Cardozo vs Temple
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2004, 10:18:30 PM »
Oh, another question I forgot to ask... how are Philadelphia firms compared to NYC firms?  My general feel is that they're not as prestigious even after you factor in the inflated NYC salaries due to high cost of living.  I'm not sure if competition for top Philly firms is equal or less than competition for similarly prestigious NYC firms (more competition for NYC firms but also more NYC firms to go around, perhaps?).  I've been meaning to get my hands on a copy of Vault's Top 100 Law Firms, but its ranking seems to vary alot with other online rankings so I'm not sure if it's actually something ppl should pay heed to or if it's another commercially-motivated attempt like USNews.

ichiban

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Re: Cardozo vs Temple
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2004, 10:37:09 PM »
whoa, where did you get the new USnews rankikngs from?  Are they out somewhere online already? Or did an admissions officer leak that info to you?

Revenant

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Re: Cardozo vs Temple
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2004, 12:27:40 AM »
There was a post in one of the other boards (the one having to do with rankings).  I wouldn't be surprised if it was leaked by someone working in USNews to whoever initially posted it first on the Princeton Review board.  Stuff like that happens all the time in the world of software piracy. ^^