[Some] minorities [agree]....Class based AA.

[bluepeter]

You bring up MLK and Obama and none of the AA supporters have anything to say.  I love it.  I see their chiming in on other threads saying of course we should make disadvantage a factor but being a minority, even a very priveleged minority, is the trump card, baby. 

[The F-cktard Express]

You bring up MLK and Obama and none of the AA supporters have anything to say.  I love it.  I see their chiming in on other threads saying of course we should make disadvantage a factor but being a minority, even a very priveleged minority, is the trump card, baby. 

Why should the opinions of two more people fly in the face of anything that's been argued presently?

I'd say that the attempt to defeat the AA argument by invoking two prominent black figures is the very definition of using a "trump card," though it doesn't change the conversation in the slightest.

Unless you're so ridiculous as to believe that all black people do, by necessity, support affirmative action.

[Lindbergh]

You bring up MLK and Obama and none of the AA supporters have anything to say.  I love it.  I see their chiming in on other threads saying of course we should make disadvantage a factor but being a minority, even a very priveleged minority, is the trump card, baby. 

Who even said trump card?  Between "trump card" and "nothing", there are lots of different ways in which to weight race, socioeconomic background. 

True.  I think the real question is why race should be weighed at all once socioeconomic background has been controlled for.  The relevant question being, how exactly does complexion affect academic performance such that adcoms should take it into account.

[OperaAttorney]

The title of this thread is rather condescending.  I find it amusing actually, because it was probably unintentional yet it says a lot about the OP. 

Yep. It's very condescending.  She might as well call me a N****R!

You're right about it being unintentional.  BlondnGreen strikes me as....umm....young.

[Lindbergh]

The title of this thread is rather condescending.  I find it amusing actually, because it was probably unintentional yet it says a lot about the OP. 

Yep. It's very condescending.  She might as well call me a N****R!

You're right about it being unintentional.  BlondnGreen strikes me as....umm....young.

This post strikes me as somewhat irrational.

[OperaAttorney]

You bring up MLK and Obama and none of the AA supporters have anything to say.  I love it.  I see their chiming in on other threads saying of course we should make disadvantage a factor but being a minority, even a very priveleged minority, is the trump card, baby. 

I'm taking a study break, so pardon me if my post lacks some lucidity.

1. I agree with MLK.  Class-based policies should be part of AA, but I do not think AA should be solely class-based.  This is because certain groups--blacks, hispanics, native americans, etc.--suffer discrimination in this country due to their ethnicity and nothing else.  These groups are also grossly underrepresented in the legal and medical professions even though they constitute significant minority populations in the US. 

2. Obama's daughters are indeed highly privileged, and I'm sure adcomms take such things into consideration.  However, Obama's daughters still belong to the groups mentioned above.  Further, we're talking about just 2 girls here, not an entire group of applicants.  I'm sorry, y'all, but the Obama girls are in a league of their own.

3. Obama stuck to the facts b/c he was asked a direct question.  He's also a black POLITICIAN running for President. What makes you think he would publicly uphold URM-based AA and denounce class-based AA? He ain't stupid.  Politicians are adroit speakers, and are highly trained to handle controversial issues without "dropping the soap." LOL

4. Obama is black, but he does NOT speak for me. I don't have to agree with everything he says.  With that said, he's a respectable man and an awesome role model.  I'm not sure he'll win though...because he is black. And any one thinks otherwise is on drugs LOL.  It's 2007, but Americans still have a long way ago. How many LSD AA opponents are rooting for Obama?  Just how many?

[OperaAttorney]

The title of this thread is rather condescending.  I find it amusing actually, because it was probably unintentional yet it says a lot about the OP. 

Yep. It's very condescending.  She might as well call me a N****R!

You're right about it probably being unintentional.  BlondnGreen strikes me as....umm....young.

This post strikes me as somewhat irrational.

Not really. But why on earth would you even get it, Brad Pitt? LOL

In essence she called me a DUMB MINORITY. Coming from a white woman with blond hair and green eyes, what do you think DUMB MINORITY means?

[Lindbergh]

The title of this thread is rather condescending.  I find it amusing actually, because it was probably unintentional yet it says a lot about the OP. 

Yep. It's very condescending.  She might as well call me a N****R!

You're right about it probably being unintentional.  BlondnGreen strikes me as....umm....young.

This post strikes me as somewhat irrational.

Not really. But why on earth would you even get it, Brad Pitt? LOL

In essence she called me a DUMB MINORITY. Coming from a white woman with blond hair and green eyes, what do you think DUMB MINORITY means?

Well, actually, she didn't call YOU anything.  What she said was that intelligent minorities recognize that class-based AA generally makes more sense than race-based AA.  Personally, I agree, and no one has yet explained why a focus on ethnicity, standing along, makes more sense or is more fair (or effective) than a focus on educational opportunity.

For you to take this as a racial slur simply because you choose to follow a view we don't think makes sense is completely irrational.  It's this kind of overreaction that makes people take claims of racism less seriously.

[Lindbergh]

You bring up MLK and Obama and none of the AA supporters have anything to say.  I love it.  I see their chiming in on other threads saying of course we should make disadvantage a factor but being a minority, even a very priveleged minority, is the trump card, baby. 

I'm taking a study break, so pardon me if my post lacks some lucidity.

1. I agree with MLK.  Class-based policies should be part of AA, but I do not think AA should be solely class-based.  This is because certain groups--blacks, hispanics, native americans, etc.--suffer discrimination in this country due to their ethnicity and nothing else. 

This is (or was) also true of Asians and Jews, of course.  However, how exactly does this affect academic achievement?  I think supporters need to flesh this out more if they want to sell it.

These groups are also grossly underrepresented in the legal and medical professions even though they constitute significant minority populations in the US. 

Okay, I think this is the real reason people advocate race-based AA once educational opportunity is accounted for.  While I understand the desire for more proportional representation, shouldn't the real energy be placed into ensuring that minorities can fairly compete once they're applying to graduate school?  And wouldn't that level playing field be largely achieved, at least for admissions, by controlling for educational opportunity?  If minority applicants (besides asians/jews) are still unable to achieve in proportional numbers at that point, don't we need to start looking more at other cultural values, etc.?  Or should we just create different admission/hiring standards that guarantee proportional representation?

And don't we need to take into account the potential negatives of any large preferences granted solely on the basis of ethnicity -- namely, a perpetuation of the stereotypes, racism, and stigmatization that foster racism, prejudice and discrimiation in the first place? 

2. Obama's daughters are indeed highly privileged, and I'm sure adcomms take such things into consideration.  However, Obama's daughters still belong to the groups mentioned above. 

But what does that mean for academic achievement?  Obama himself didn't appear to let his skin color affect his achievement.  Is he some kind of freak, or does this underscore the fact that individual and family values are ultimately responsible for individual success?

Further, we're talking about just 2 girls here, not an entire group of applicants.  I'm sorry, y'all, but the Obama girls are in a league of their own.

Well, if privileged minorities are really that rare, than it shouldn't matter much if we severely restrict any special consideration afforded them. Obviously, a different analysis would be applied to minorities who are disadvantaged in ways that directly impact academic achievement.

3. Obama stuck to the facts b/c he was asked a direct question.  He's also a black POLITICIAN running for President. What makes you think he would publicly uphold URM-based AA and denounce class-based AA? He ain't stupid.  Politicians are adroit speakers, and are highly trained to handle controversial issues without "dropping the soap." LOL

It's also possible, however, that Obama is also a man of principle and vision, and recognizes that significant preferences for privileged minorities are corrosive in various ways that ultimately hurt minorities generally. 

4. Obama is black, but he does NOT speak for me. I don't have to agree with everything he says.  With that said, he's a respectable man and an awesome role model.  I'm not sure he'll win though...because he is black. And any one thinks otherwise is on drugs LOL.  It's 2007, but Americans still have a long way ago. How many LSD AA opponents are rooting for Obama?  Just how many?

Obviously, no one should speak for you, and you don't have to agree with anyone.  That said, he is certainly more intelligent and accomplished than most on this board. 

As for his chances at election, he is in fact black (actually mixed), and he is also very young and inexperienced politically.  In other words, there's a number of reasons he might not win the presidency just a few years after entering national politics.  However, none of that is really relevant to this issue.

Note:  Do you think the existence of AA helps or hurts Obama's image in the minds of most voters?  Honest question.

[blondngreen]

The title of this thread is rather condescending.  I find it amusing actually, because it was probably unintentional yet it says a lot about the OP. 

Yep. It's very condescending.  She might as well call me a N****R!

You're right about it being unintentional.  BlondnGreen strikes me as....umm....young.

I've never used the 'n' word.  To me the connotations are horrible.  As always you try to divert my attention by calling me a racist.  You're a silly little man.