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Author Topic: [Some] minorities [agree]....Class based AA.  (Read 26228 times)

dashrashi

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Re: The smart minorities get it....Class based AA.
« Reply #180 on: September 14, 2007, 04:34:04 PM »
I want a pat on the back for the following reason: I have finally started to get the hang of seeing the little Brad Pitt avatar and then just scrolling on past.

I urge all of you to join me in ignoring Lindbergh, who very rudely repeats himself in quintuple and sextuple posts when one substantive response would likely suffice if written well enough. It makes reading threads significantly more enjoyable. Seriously, just skip 'em. It's awesome.
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Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.

UNAS

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Re: The smart minorities get it....Class based AA.
« Reply #181 on: September 14, 2007, 04:47:42 PM »
I want a pat on the back for the following reason: I have finally started to get the hang of seeing the little Brad Pitt avatar and then just scrolling on past.

I urge all of you to join me in ignoring Lindbergh, who very rudely repeats himself in quintuple and sextuple posts when one substantive response would likely suffice if written well enough. It makes reading threads significantly more enjoyable. Seriously, just skip 'em. It's awesome.

LOL ;D

Credited, but Lindberg should also receive a pat on the back for consistenly riling(sorry i am from the south, maybe i should have said agitate..anyway) the users of this board with his naivety, idealism and microcosmic egocentric view of public policy all under the guise of curiousity and substance

Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: The smart minorities get it....Class based AA.
« Reply #182 on: September 14, 2007, 05:11:51 PM »
(I've never even seen proof that slavery benefited whites as a whole & given the civil war I don't think it did).



Wow.  I have no words. 

You really believe that?

I think I might be done at this point.


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Burning Sands, Esq.

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Re: The smart minorities get it....Class based AA.
« Reply #183 on: September 14, 2007, 05:21:00 PM »
I have only one more thing to add that will (hopefully) put things in perspective.  If not, at least it's worth knowing.  Freak, please see bolded below to correct your misconception that slavery did not benefit whites in America:



A Long History of Affirmative Action - For Whites

Many middle-class white people, especially those of us
from the suburbs, like to think that we got to where we
are today by virtue of our merit - hard work,
intelligence, pluck, and maybe a little luck. And while we
may be sympathetic to the plight of others, we close down
when we hear the words "affirmative action" or "racial
preferences." We worked hard, we made it on our own, the
thinking goes, why don't 'they'? After all, the Civil
Rights Act was enacted almost 40 years ago.

What we don't readily acknowledge is that racial
preferences have a long, institutional history in this
country - a white history. Here are a few ways in which
government programs and practices have channeled wealth
and opportunities to white people at the expense of
others.


Early Racial Preferences

We all know the old history, but it's still worth
reminding ourselves of its scale and scope. Affirmative
action in the American "workplace" first began in the late
17th century when European indentured servants - the
original source of unfree labor on the new tobacco
plantations of Virginia and Maryland - were replaced by
African slaves.
In exchange for their support and their
policing of the growing slave population, lower-class
Europeans won new rights, entitlements, and opportunities
from the planter elite.

White Americans were also given a head start with the help
of the U.S. Army. The 1830 Indian Removal Act, for
example, forcibly relocated Cherokee, Creeks and other
eastern Indians to west of the Mississippi River to make
room for white settlers. The 1862 Homestead Act followed
suit, giving away millions of acres of what had been
Indian Territory west of the Mississippi. Ultimately, 270
million acres, or 10% of the total land area of the United
States, was converted to private hands, overwhelmingly
white, under Homestead Act provisions.

The 1790 Naturalization Act permitted only "free white
persons" to become naturalized citizens, thus opening the
doors to European immigrants but not others. Only citizens
could vote, serve on juries, hold office, and in some
cases, even hold property. In this century, Alien Land
Laws passed in California and other states, reserved farm
land for white growers by preventing Asian immigrants,
ineligible to become citizens, from owning or leasing
land. Immigration restrictions further limited
opportunities for nonwhite groups. Racial barriers to
naturalized U.S. citizenship weren't removed until the
McCarran-Walter Act in 1952, and white racial preferences
in immigration remained until 1965.

In the South, the federal government never followed
through on General Sherman's Civil War plan to divide up
plantations and give each freed slave "40 acres and a
mule" as reparations. Only once was monetary compensation
made for slavery, in Washington, D.C. There, government
officials paid up to $300 per slave upon emancipation -
not to the slaves, but to local slaveholders as
compensation for loss of property.


When slavery ended, its legacy lived on not only in the
impoverished condition of Black people but in the wealth
and prosperity that accrued to white slaveowners and their
descendents. Economists who try to place a dollar value on
how much white Americans have profited from 200 years of
unpaid slave labor, including interest, begin their
estimates at $1 trillion.


Jim Crow laws, instituted in the late 19th and early 20th
century and not overturned in many states until the 1960s,
reserved the best jobs, neighborhoods, schools and
hospitals for white people.


The Advantages Grow, Generation to Generation

Less known are more recent government racial preferences,
first enacted during the New Deal, that directed wealth to
white families and continue to shape life opportunities
and chances.

The landmark Social Security Act of 1935 provided a safety
net for millions of workers, guaranteeing them an income
after retirement. But the act specifically excluded two
occupations: agricultural workers and domestic servants,
who were predominately African American, Mexican, and
Asian. As low-income workers, they also had the least
opportunity to save for their retirement. They couldn't
pass wealth on to their children. Just the opposite. Their
children had to support them.

Like Social Security, the 1935 Wagner Act helped establish
an important new right for white people. By granting
unions the power of collective bargaining, it helped
millions of white workers gain entry into the middle class
over the next 30 years. But the Wagner Act permitted
unions to exclude non-whites and deny them access to
better paid jobs and union protections and benefits such
as health care, job security, and pensions. Many craft
unions remained nearly all-white well into the 1970s. In
1972, for example, every single one of the 3,000 members
of Los Angeles Steam Fitters Local #250 was still white.

But it was another racialized New Deal program, the
Federal Housing Administration, that helped generate much
of the wealth that so many white families enjoy today.
These revolutionary programs made it possible for millions
of average white Americans - but not others - to own a
home for the first time. The government set up a national
neighborhood appraisal system, explicitly tying mortgage
eligibility to race. Integrated communities were ipso
facto deemed a financial risk and made ineligible for home
loans, a policy known today as "redlining." Between 1934
and 1962, the federal government backed $120 billion of
home loans. More than 98% went to whites. Of the 350,000
new homes built with federal support in northern
California between 1946 and 1960, fewer than 100 went to
African Americans.

These government programs made possible the new segregated
white suburbs that sprang up around the country after
World War II. Government subsidies for municipal services
helped develop and enhance these suburbs further, in turn
fueling commercial investments. Freeways tied the new
suburbs to central business districts, but they often cut
through and destroyed the vitality of non-white
neighborhoods in the central city.

Today, Black and Latino mortgage applicants are still 60%
more likely than whites to be turned down for a loan, even
after controlling for employment, financial, and
neighborhood factors. According to the Census, whites are
more likely to be segregated than any other group. As
recently as 1993, 86% of suburban whites still lived in
neighborhoods with a black population of less than 1%.


Reaping the Rewards of Racial Preference

One result of the generations of preferential treatment
for whites is that a typical white family today has on
average eight times the assets, or net worth, of a typical
African American family, according to economist Edward
Wolff. Even when families of the same income are compared,
white families have more than twice the wealth of Black
families. Much of that wealth difference can be attributed
to the value of one's home, and how much one inherited
from parents.

But a family's net worth is not simply the finish line,
it's also the starting point for the next generation.
Those with wealth pass their assets on to their children -
by financing a college education, lending a hand during
hard times, or assisting with the down payment for a home.
Some economists estimate that up to 80 percent of lifetime
wealth accumulation depends on these intergenerational
transfers. White advantage is passed down, from parent to
child to grand-child. As a result, the racial wealth gap -
and the head start enjoyed by whites - appears to have
grown since the civil rights days.

In 1865, just after Emancipation, it is not surprising
that African Americans owned 0.5 percent of the total
worth of the United States. But by 1990, a full 135 years
after the abolition of slavery, Black Americans still
possessed only a meager 1 percent of national wealth.


Rather than recognize how "racial preferences" have tilted
the playing field and given us a head start in life, many
whites continue to believe that race does not affect our
lives. Instead, we chastise others for not achieving what
we have; we even invert the situation and accuse
non-whites of using "the race card" to advance themselves.

Or we suggest that differential outcomes may simply result
from differences in "natural" ability or motivation.
However, sociologist Dalton Conley's research shows that
when we compare the performance of families across racial
lines who make not just the same income, but also hold
similar net worth, a very interesting thing happens: many
of the racial disparities in education, graduation rates,
welfare usage and other outcomes disappear. The
"performance gap" between whites and nonwhites is a
product not of nature, but unequal circumstances.

Colorblind policies that treat everyone the same, no
exceptions for minorities, are often counter-posed against
affirmative action. But colorblindness today merely
bolsters the unfair advantages that color-coded practices
have enabled white Americans to long accumulate.

It's a little late in the game to say that race shouldn't
matter.



Copyright (c) California Newsreel, 2003
RACE - The Power of an Illusion



"A lawyer's either a social engineer or a parasite on society. A social engineer is a highly skilled...lawyer who understands the Constitution of the U.S. and knows how to explore its uses in the solving of problems of local communities and in bettering [our] conditions."
Charles H. Houston

dashrashi

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Re: The smart minorities get it....Class based AA.
« Reply #184 on: September 14, 2007, 05:25:23 PM »
I'm sure everyone's seen this by now, but just a refresher course on white privilege:

http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html
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Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.

Freak

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Re: The smart minorities get it....Class based AA.
« Reply #185 on: September 14, 2007, 05:42:57 PM »
The immigration argument is hogwash, the beneficiaries of AA are slave descendants, not immigrants. Honestly, most immigrants, of all races, do better than slave descendants for some reason. For some reason even the hated Jews manage to build immense wealth in a generation. And don't tell me it's color alone because Asians have no trouble getting ahead.

And if economists estimate $1 trillion, in benefits, well we spent way more than that in the Civil war in current dollars, plus a huge moral degeneration, and not to mention a million mostly white lives. That doesn't even count AA. So whatever benefit slavery gave our ancestors, we lost it all after 1862.

I don't know enough about the other issues to comment.
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Freak

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Re: The smart minorities get it....Class based AA.
« Reply #186 on: September 14, 2007, 06:13:38 PM »
I'm sure everyone's seen this by now, but just a refresher course on white privilege:

http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

A number of those things have happened to me. I attended a black conference in law school my first year, with one other white classmate. Guess what, they turned to us and asked (we didn't volunteer) "as the only whites present (about 50 blacks) why don't you tell us the white point of view?" Boy did we wish we had stayed home. (I've always wondered why nobody cares if minorities label their groups black/asian/latino etc. yet if a group labels itself "white" watch out). If you'll want to be accepted, why label your groups so specifically? I don't imagine many minorities would participate in a group called the white law students association.

The thugs I mentioned earlier? Ya, well one time they were 6 black teenagers who attacked my brother and I yelling "get out of our neighborhood." For crying out loud, why is it so unsafe for a white person to walk through the south side of Chicago? (I'll never do it again, we just looked up the closest movie theater and headed that way) I see minorities all over the north side with no problems - though I've heard Bridgeport was unsafe for blacks 30 years ago.

I've been on a bus as the only white face, and yes I received some nasty looks.

And since my Mom home schooled me, I know all about having a difficult time finding textbooks supporting that type of education. We had school officials knocking on our front door insisting that they inspect our house. (fortunately my Mom did her homework and knew this was illegal). Of course, those in the neighborhood didn't like us much, after all since we didn't attend their school, they didn't receive thousands in funding. In a town of 400, word gets around fast that we're "costing" them money.
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dashrashi

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Re: The smart minorities get it....Class based AA.
« Reply #187 on: September 14, 2007, 07:20:56 PM »
Alfred Lubrano from the Philadelphia Inquirer on why things are different when minorities do them versus when white people do them:

http://tinyurl.com/33qn9u
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Saw dashrashi's LSN site. Since she seems to use profanity, one could say that HYP does not necessarily mean class or refinement.

bluepeter

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Re: The smart minorities get it....Class based AA.
« Reply #188 on: September 14, 2007, 10:46:20 PM »
Okay.  Anyways, getting back to the question at hand, why should Obama's kids benefit from AA? 

OperaAttorney

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Re: The smart minorities get it....Class based AA.
« Reply #189 on: September 14, 2007, 10:58:42 PM »
Okay.  Anyways, getting back to the question at hand, why should Obama's kids benefit from AA? 

Anyways, getting back to the REAL question at hand: why should any level-headed LSD poster argue with bluepeter, who routinely displays harbored prejudice and denies the fact that he, a white male, enjoys a myriad of exclusive privileges?
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