# Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
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### AuthorTopic: AA: More harm than good?  (Read 17370 times)

#### Kirk Lazarus

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 2042
• I'm a lead farmer, mofo
##### Re: AA: More harm than good?
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2007, 09:22:24 PM »
The difference between a 165 and a 170 is something nominal, like 3 actual questions on the LSAT right?  Basically, we would be splitting hairs between somebody in the, say 95th percentile (taking a guess on where 165 falls) and the say, 99th percentile.

You're wrong.  Generally, the difference between 165 and 170 is 5-6 questions.  Furthermore, the difference between the 95th and 99th percentile is around 8 questions.

The chance of an identical student having a difference of 8 questions (or 7 points, a typical URM boost) is at least two SDs off the mean.  In other words, it's not something that will happen simply due to dumb luck.

Carry on with the arguments as to why a black student and a white student with identical socio-economic backgrounds who attended the very same schools from K-16 should have different opportunities if both decide to attend law school.  It makes for fascinating reading.

You're wrong. Sorry. The difference between 95th percentile and 99th percentile is at most 3 questions. Don't speak unless you know what you're talking about.

Wanna bet?  Here's a sample I was able to find off-hand from last year (June 2006)...

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/MaraudingJ/June2006Scale.jpg

And here's LSACs Scaled-score to percentile score break-down: http://www.deloggio.com/how&when/newcurve.htm (this stays pretty static test-to-test).

Say what you will, but the difference is most definitely closer to 8 questions than three (in terms of scores, a 165/6 v. a 172; the exact raw numbers vary, but the delta of 7-8 questions is more stable and the general translation of the scores above).

a 167 is 95%. A 165 is 93%.
YLS c/o 2009

#### Somewhere

• Full Member
• Posts: 89
##### Re: AA: More harm than good?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2007, 09:41:35 PM »
The difference between a 165 and a 170 is something nominal, like 3 actual questions on the LSAT right?  Basically, we would be splitting hairs between somebody in the, say 95th percentile (taking a guess on where 165 falls) and the say, 99th percentile.

You're wrong.  Generally, the difference between 165 and 170 is 5-6 questions.  Furthermore, the difference between the 95th and 99th percentile is around 8 questions.

The chance of an identical student having a difference of 8 questions (or 7 points, a typical URM boost) is at least two SDs off the mean.  In other words, it's not something that will happen simply due to dumb luck.

Carry on with the arguments as to why a black student and a white student with identical socio-economic backgrounds who attended the very same schools from K-16 should have different opportunities if both decide to attend law school.  It makes for fascinating reading.

You're wrong. Sorry. The difference between 95th percentile and 99th percentile is at most 3 questions. Don't speak unless you know what you're talking about.

Wanna bet?  Here's a sample I was able to find off-hand from last year (June 2006)...

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i245/MaraudingJ/June2006Scale.jpg

And here's LSACs Scaled-score to percentile score break-down: http://www.deloggio.com/how&when/newcurve.htm (this stays pretty static test-to-test).

Say what you will, but the difference is most definitely closer to 8 questions than three (in terms of scores, a 165/6 v. a 172; the exact raw numbers vary, but the delta of 7-8 questions is more stable and the general translation of the scores above).

a 167 is 95%. A 165 is 93%.

It still works out to around 7 questions.

#### Somewhere

• Full Member
• Posts: 89
##### Re: AA: More harm than good?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2007, 09:56:48 PM »
a 167 is 95%. A 165 is 93%.

Prove it.  Never seen a table with it that high, but that's not the question.

a 167 is a 95%
a 173 is a 99%

As for the raw score, on the test I took in 2006

a 93 raw score was a 173
an 86 raw score was a 167

You can all go back to whatever it was you were discussing.

#### Kittyl30

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 1781
##### Re: AA: More harm than good?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2008, 10:55:18 AM »
just browsing around the board. i found this part of the article the most shocking:

"As a result, in elite law schools, 51.6% of black students had first-year grade point averages in the bottom 10% of their class as opposed to only 5.6% of white students. Nearly identical performance gaps existed at law schools at all levels. This much is uncontroversial."

something needs to be said for that..
she says she's tired of life
everybody's tired of something..

#### Kirk Lazarus

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 2042
• I'm a lead farmer, mofo
##### Re: AA: More harm than good?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2008, 11:41:35 AM »
just browsing around the board. i found this part of the article the most shocking:

"As a result, in elite law schools, 51.6% of black students had first-year grade point averages in the bottom 10% of their class as opposed to only 5.6% of white students. Nearly identical performance gaps existed at law schools at all levels. This much is uncontroversial."

something needs to be said for that..

Doesn't happen at my school.
YLS c/o 2009

#### Outlaw22

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 551
##### Re: AA: More harm than good?
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2008, 01:39:42 PM »
just browsing around the board. i found this part of the article the most shocking:

"As a result, in elite law schools, 51.6% of black students had first-year grade point averages in the bottom 10% of their class as opposed to only 5.6% of white students. Nearly identical performance gaps existed at law schools at all levels. This much is uncontroversial."

something needs to be said for that..

First of all where is the article from? And what defines "elite" law schools. Because practically all schools in the T14 don't release class ranks - so this information wouldn't be available for biased statements like that.
Penn Law Class of 2011

#### imdashep

• Full Member
• Posts: 51
##### Re: AA: More harm than good?
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2008, 08:57:05 PM »
I have to say, the pro-AA people made very few good arguments in this post. There are plenty to be made, and simply none were. Pointing out examples of success, or using ad hominum attacks, or just citing the vitriolic posts of the anti-AA people as a premise for your argument does nothing to counter the article in question.

Furthermore, with regards to elite law schools, many more people could do well at Harvard than get in. Hell, if you get in to a top 25 school you could probably handle the workload at Harvard. That is not the main point though, nor is it the argument anti-AA make regarding why AA shouldn't exist. Step it up

#### Kirk Lazarus

• Sr. Citizen
• Posts: 2042
• I'm a lead farmer, mofo
##### Re: AA: More harm than good?
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2008, 09:04:59 PM »
I have to say, the pro-AA people made very few good arguments in this post. There are plenty to be made, and simply none were. Pointing out examples of success, or using ad hominum attacks, or just citing the vitriolic posts of the anti-AA people as a premise for your argument does nothing to counter the article in question.

Furthermore, with regards to elite law schools, many more people could do well at Harvard than get in. Hell, if you get in to a top 25 school you could probably handle the workload at Harvard. That is not the main point though, nor is it the argument anti-AA make regarding why AA shouldn't exist. Step it up

LMAO.
YLS c/o 2009

#### Astro

• LSD Obsessed
• Posts: 10016
• Happy birthday goalie!!!
##### Re: AA: More harm than good?
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2008, 09:26:10 PM »
Just look at the entire country of South Africa if you want to see how stupidly retarded and outright racist AA is.

Most asinine argument of all time.  Seriously.
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all.

#### Astro

• LSD Obsessed
• Posts: 10016
• Happy birthday goalie!!!
##### Re: AA: More harm than good?
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2008, 05:33:58 PM »
Just look at the entire country of South Africa if you want to see how stupidly retarded and outright racist AA is.

Most asinine argument of all time.  Seriously.

you exaggerate and that makes your assertion less forceful.  htfh.

::clicks on LSN to stalk::
::is whisked away to a dark underworld::
J, if you didn't bring enough penis for everyone, you shouldn't have brought any penis at all.