AA: More harm than good?

[eastend]

That's really sad.  We need more minorities in the law profession.  I could check the URM box myself - I'm half Mexican, but I think I got the LSAT score I deserve, and will attend a school where I can excel.  It's sad that minorities who check that box end up dropping out because they can't keep up.  If the differnce is getting into law school or not, I can see why they do it, but if you get a 165 on your LSAT, HYS are going to chew you up and spit you out. 

[UNAS]

That's really sad.  We need more minorities in the law profession.  I could check the URM box myself - I'm half Mexican, but I think I got the LSAT score I deserve, and will attend a school where I can excel.  It's sad that minorities who check that box end up dropping out because they can't keep up.  If the differnce is getting into law school or not, I can see why they do it, but if you get a 165 on your LSAT, HYS are going to chew you up and spit you out. 

You should revisit this comment. Across the board attrition rates for top schools (i.e. T6-T10)schools are less then 1%. Top school have indicated that most people that drop out almost always do so for non-academic reasons. Just figured I would dispel that myth before it spiraled out of control

Will URMs with a less than median LSATs have to work a lil harder? Maybe/maybe not. But to say they will get chewed up and spit out is a complete and total falsehood. Particularly if you base it on the nations leading law schools' attrition numbers.

[lollypotter]

 

No comment on AA but interested in ColdBlue's comment. Why is AA in South Africa retarded and racist? Spent a year studying South Africa at university and very interested in his response...

[OperaAttorney]

The worst part about AA is that as a minority you can NEVER feel that you truly earned your accomplishments.  This application cycle I was constantly thinking about whether or not I truly deserved to get that screening interview, to get invited for a callback, and to receive an offer.  I'm always wondering if the firms gave me all these opportunities to fill a quota or to look PC for their clients.

My experience is quite pleasant. Despite my status as a minority, I NEVER discount the validity of my accomplishments.  Yes, AA exists--thank God!--but I also know I get A's at the end of each academic term due to my God-given intelligence and diligent work ethic, not AA.  When I apply to law school next year, I intend to put my best into each application. The law school admissions process is competitive, and I can't depend on my URM status to get me anywhere. I do know, however, that I can depend on EVERYTHING about me.

Another bad feeling is that others won't ever give you full credit for your accomplishments.  "Ah that f-ing kid got his interview/job because of AA."  That statement might sound ignorant but let's be perfectly honest here, I can't be 100% sure that I got to where i'm at solely because of my talents and hard-work... I think my credentials are quite good but it's annoying that a lot of ppl may look at me and not think about my qualifications but wonder which quota i'll be filling.

First, this ridiculous notion existed in the minds of our nation's majority long before AA even reared its head. Blacks have always struggled to receive proper recognition in this country.  My father, an African immigrant, received "partial" credit for his accomplishments while attending college, medical school, and graduate school in this country. Louis Latimer and Vivien Thomas, two of our nation's greatest black scientists, made innovative discoveries, but failed to receive proper recognition for their efforts due to overt racism, which was prevalent at the time. (And in Latimer's case, I believe his superiors appropriated his ideas without his approval.)

Second, it's all about who you know these days, not what you know. Do you think any one of us could walk into Harpo Studios, submit a résumé, and get a job? Probably not. But I bet the candidate who knows somebody (who knows somebody else) would fare better.

On a side note: why should I care if people who don't know me think I got to where I am because of AA?  I frequently outperform most students (including the white students) in my classes.  In my opinion, we have this problem because people refuse to mind their business.

Here's the bottom line: they're always going to say you're not good enough.  If it's not AA, then they'll use something else.  My advice? Ignore the naysayers and shut them up with your stellar performance.

[OperaAttorney]

That's really sad.  We need more minorities in the law profession.  I could check the URM box myself - I'm half Mexican, but I think I got the LSAT score I deserve, and will attend a school where I can excel.  It's sad that minorities who check that box end up dropping out because they can't keep up.  If the differnce is getting into law school or not, I can see why they do it, but if you get a 165 on your LSAT, HYS are going to chew you up and spit you out. 

Should your law school spit you out for displaying such ignorance? I'll let you answer that question. LOL

2Lacoste, an LSD regular, is doing well at HLS and will graduate from HLS in 2009. He got into HLS, U Mich, and UVA with a 3.5sumthin and a 163 LSAT.  URMs and non-URMs with LSAT scores under 165 attend top law schools and do well all the time.  Please GROW UP and get over your half-Mexican self!

[Kirk Lazarus]

That's really sad.  We need more minorities in the law profession.  I could check the URM box myself - I'm half Mexican, but I think I got the LSAT score I deserve, and will attend a school where I can excel.  It's sad that minorities who check that box end up dropping out because they can't keep up.  If the differnce is getting into law school or not, I can see why they do it, but if you get a 165 on your LSAT, HYS are going to chew you up and spit you out. 

You're a damn fool,

Annabel Lee got a 163 on the LSAT and got into HYSCCN and attended Yale. If getting a bunch of Hs in your first year classes is getting chewed up and spit out, then yes.

[Burning Sands, Esq.]

That's really sad.  We need more minorities in the law profession.  I could check the URM box myself - I'm half Mexican, but I think I got the LSAT score I deserve, and will attend a school where I can excel.  It's sad that minorities who check that box end up dropping out because they can't keep up.  If the differnce is getting into law school or not, I can see why they do it, but if you get a 165 on your LSAT, HYS are going to chew you up and spit you out. 

You're a damn fool,

Annabel Lee got a 163 on the LSAT and got into HYSCCN and attended Yale. If getting a bunch of Hs in your first year classes is getting chewed up and spit out, then yes.

It should be duly noted by this point, based on posts like the one above, that EASTEND rarely has any idea of what she is talking about with respect to law school, law in general, the LSAT, AA, admissions....

....the list goes on apparently.


Correct me if I'm wrong, folks, but scoring a 165 puts you in the 90+ percentile of all LSAT takers right?  The difference between a 165 and a 170 is something nominal, like 3 actual questions on the LSAT right?  Basically, we would be splitting hairs between somebody in the, say 95th percentile (taking a guess on where 165 falls) and the say, 99th percentile. 

So....how again would Harvard Yale or Stanford chew one up and spit one out exactly if they scored a 165 on the LSAT?  Professors must petition at Stanford and Harvard to even give any grade lower than a B- and Yale has no grades at all. In fact, looking at the attrition rates for each school, not so much as a single student left Harvard, Yale, or Stanford for academic reasons.  Not one.  Everybody who got into these schools was able to hack it, and as we can see by the employment %'s, practically all of them got jobs.

Eastend, you might want to do the research first before making any further unsubstantiated claims in the future.  Afterall, we are aspiring to be attorneys here right?  Attorneys typically look things up first, and then talk.

[Matthew]

I agree that anyone who get into HYS, URM boost or no, can make it there.  That doesn't mean this is true otherwise, especially in the lower teirs.  People could be accepted into schools way above their proficiency level and drown in the course work.  Just because that's true at the top doesn't mean that AA doesn't have the negative effect the article describes.

[Kirk Lazarus]

The difference between a 165 and a 170 is something nominal, like 3 actual questions on the LSAT right?  Basically, we would be splitting hairs between somebody in the, say 95th percentile (taking a guess on where 165 falls) and the say, 99th percentile. 

You're wrong.  Generally, the difference between 165 and 170 is 5-6 questions.  Furthermore, the difference between the 95th and 99th percentile is around 8 questions.

The chance of an identical student having a difference of 8 questions (or 7 points, a typical URM boost) is at least two SDs off the mean.  In other words, it's not something that will happen simply due to dumb luck.

Carry on with the arguments as to why a black student and a white student with identical socio-economic backgrounds who attended the very same schools from K-16 should have different opportunities if both decide to attend law school.  It makes for fascinating reading. 

You're wrong. Sorry. The difference between 95th percentile and 99th percentile is at most 3 questions. Don't speak unless you know what you're talking about.

[simonsays]

http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/help/scale.htm

it's a normal distribution.  the difference between scales scores decreases as you go away from the average score.  so for:

150-155, a difference of 10
155-160, 9
160-165, 8
165-170, 7
170-175, 5
175-180, 4

see the trend?