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Author Topic: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks  (Read 7168 times)

Betty_Crocker

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Re: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2007, 12:24:05 PM »
I think the main gist of the article is to forewarn people about salary prospects immediately after graduation.

People also assume that the harder you work in law school, the higher your GPA will be. Being in law school for two years, I can tell you that constantly studying will not necessarily lead you to better grades. The people who post on LSD are a select group...they obviously take going to law school seriously and are willing to work hard once in law school. But reading the posts I have come across on here, I get the feeling that a lot of posters are banking on the fact that they will be in the top 10-25% of their respective class. 

wiimote

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Re: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2007, 12:26:33 PM »
I think the main gist of the article is to forewarn people about salary prospects immediately after graduation.

People also assume that the harder you work in law school, the higher your GPA will be. Being in law school for two years, I can tell you that constantly studying will not necessarily lead you to better grades. The people who post on LSD are a select group...they obviously take going to law school seriously and are willing to work hard once in law school. But reading the posts I have come across on here, I get the feeling that a lot of posters are banking on the fact that they will be in the top 10-25% of their respective class. 

Stop 25% at Houston will get you jack *&^%. You need top 10%.

cassise

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Re: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks
« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2007, 02:53:31 PM »
Ok......reiterating my previous point, my dad is a partner of his firm, makes somewhere in the realm of 200k per year, and went to American University (Tier 2).  He spent 60k on tuition (not including interest).  I have met a few of his classmates over the years, who also seem to be doing quite well (1 owns his own patent law firm, another was the chief of staff of a congresswoman, another works as a tax attorney at a large D.C. firm.  If you would like websites to their firms, I would be happy to furnish them for you.

And honestly, if we are only able to get into T2 schools, then it is likely that we aren't going to get into Harvard for anything else either.  And it is also unlikely that we are going to get huge paying jobs with our 3.3 undergrad GPA's or whatever we have.

So, we appreciate your looking out for us, but why don't you take the conversation to people playing the lottery everyday?  At least we have a legitimate chance to improve our lives.  And if we don't do well, so what?  You shouldn't care anyways, we won't be homeless, and at least our kids will have more knowledge handed to them than we likely had.  Let us worry about ourselves, and go bask in your glory for being admitted to a great school.

Likewise, we will bask in our mediocrity.  I'm content, no matter how law school turns out.  I've met all kinds of interesting people, and made many friends along the way.

By the way, would you say the same thing to athletes who went to non-Division 1-A schools?  I'm sure it is easier to make it to the NFL if you went to Miami, or Ohio State, but what about Jerry Rice (Mississippi Valley State), Walter Payton (Jackson State), Terrell Owens (Tennessee-Chattanooga), Michael Strahan (my alma mater, Texas Southern).

They are the exception to the rule, but they did great things.

What about Mark Lanier, the owner of the firm who successfully sued Vioxx (clients awarded 253 million in damages), and his Tier 3 law school Texas Tech University?

What of the 56 lawyers who attended my Tier 2 law school, and are now working at Baker Botts?  What of the 15 of those who made partner?

We have read your advice telling us not to go to law school.  We choose to ignore it.  Stop wasting your typing, and go study.  Oh, that's right, I forgot, you don't have to study, because you are at a top school, and as long as you graduate you are going to get a great job (no matter what your grades are  ;)).  Damn!


This is a good post that pretty much touches on all sides.  People should post the info about the crappy job prospects facing those not at the tip top of T3 classes so that people know what they are getting into.  People that know what the situation is and choose to go anyway shouldn't be chastized they should be wished good luck and left alone.  You know the risks, you know the rewards, you know what you are getting into.  Good luck.

Seriously guys, I'm all for making sure people know the job prospects aren't good and I'm all for talking about the "Scam" that some low end career service offices pull to make it look like their grads will have good enough job prospects, but where does anybody get off taking shots and people that know this and choose to go anyway?

Good luck guys, I wouldn't have the guts to make this type of 150K gamble, but one way to big rewards is to take big risks. Good luck.

sh89

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Re: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2007, 02:02:25 AM »
You know what? @#!* Law and @#!* law school.

I am not going to bust my balls for three years, be in debt 150K, and work in a system which is dissatisfying and stressful.


You really think making 150k is worth it? After taxes, loan repayments, living expense, etc, you will probably be saving only 20 to 30k. That is not f-ing worth it. My mom will soon make 100k a month through her life insurance business, so @#!* the idea of living a stressful life and making a net gain of f-ing 20 f-ing thousand f-ing dollars.I would rather have a family which I can raise properly and a wife who I will deeply love and care for.

That is all.

I am Penny Lane

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Re: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2007, 09:27:41 AM »
You know what? @#!* Law and @#!* law school.

I am not going to bust my balls for three years, be in debt 150K, and work in a system which is dissatisfying and stressful.

You really think making 150k is worth it? After taxes, loan repayments, living expense, etc, you will probably be saving only 20 to 30k. That is not f-ing worth it. My mom will soon make 100k a month through her life insurance business, so @#!* the idea of living a stressful life and making a net gain of f-ing 20 f-ing thousand f-ing dollars.I would rather have a family which I can raise properly and a wife who I will deeply love and care for.

That is all.

Wow.
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wiimote

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Re: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2007, 10:47:19 AM »
Well, for me it seems worth it from this point of view. I habitually experience the following:

1. salaries below $20,000.oo per year, even after several promotions, large amounts of "you are really brilliant" feedback, supervising 4 or more people, etc.

2. employers who value stupidity (rote mindless behavior, assembly-line construction of non-thought processes) over intelligence, and hence (perhaps quite wisely) choose less bright competitors over me

3. idiot "certifications" ruling the day -- get a cert. in "word processing" and you get to be "official publicity word processor expert" in the publicity department, for another extra $500 a year; never mind that the person with that cert. is SO BAD AT word processing that he or she had to GO BE TAUGHT HOW TO DO IT IN A CLASS while I (and 99% of LSD's participants) could simply have "picked it up" without a cert.

4. a depressed salary market, in which young (often wealthy, supported by their parents) recent grads come in to positions such as mine to "do it for the love, not the money," such that my own NEED FOR A LIVING WAGE is considered "inappropriately money-grubbing" (example: I don't go in to the office on weekends, because I'm waiting tables IN ORDER TO PAY RENT, and later am considered "not dedicated" because I failed to volunteer office time on weekends)

Everybody wants to "break in" to publishing and journalism. "I want to BE A WRITER." Grr. It requires no back-training at all -- anyone who can concoct a decent poem MIGHT be a "great 'riter" some day. Law is different. You have to cross hurdles. They don't let in the wanna-be's until they've actually proved themselves.

Work is dull and stressful. Office work beats the hell out of ditch digging (I've done both) and maybe some of LSD's participants just don't know what it's going to be like IN ANY PROFESSION. There's a famous statement out there that the most common disappointment that well-educated people report, is that they regret having gone into law. This urban myth originally gave me pause, until I started to figure that most disappointed early-level lawyers probably have never had any OTHER work in an office other than summer jobs.

I can either continue my work in the writing-related fields, and have the following:
a. a mostly dull day in an office (beats the hell out of ditch digging!) at 60 hours a week
b. a large number of namby-pamby co-workers who pass along email jokes, think that photocopying a "Round Tu It" and giving it to me so I can now do the task because I "got around to it" is hilarious, can't name the Vice President, forgot whether we invaded Iraq or Iran, and want me to come to their church
c. regular breaks, regular paycheck, good benefits
d. no chance for promotion
e. competitors whose abilities are inferior but whose bodies are much more attractive than mine who beat me
f. an annual $20,000.oo salary AT MOST

Or I can get to work in law and have the following:
a. a mostly dull day in an office (beats the hell out of ditch digging!) at 60 hours a week
b. a (smaller?) number of namby-pamby co-workers who pass along email jokes, think that photocopying a "Round Tu It" and giving it to me so I can now do the task because I "got around to it" is hilarious, can't name the Vice President, forgot whether we invaded Iraq or Iran, and want me to come to their church
c. regular breaks, regular paycheck, good benefits
d. more chance for promotion
e. competitors whose abilities are inferior but whose bodies are much more attractive than mine who might lose to me
f. an annual $40,000.oo salary AT LEAST
 
You pick.


Are you a journalist?

OnTheRoad

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Re: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2007, 05:32:56 PM »



Work is dull and stressful. Office work beats the hell out of ditch digging (I've done both) and maybe some of LSD's participants just don't know what it's going to be like IN ANY PROFESSION. There's a famous statement out there that the most common disappointment that well-educated people report, is that they regret having gone into law. This urban myth originally gave me pause, until I started to figure that most disappointed early-level lawyers probably have never had any OTHER work in an office other than summer jobs.




Final_ID = Genius.

Myth busted.

Anyone not sure about the wisdom of this should take the time to go to a construction site and discuss their dilemma with some of the folks working there. Be sure to duck right after you explain it all so you don't get hit with the hammer coming at you. But seriously, work sucks, you may as well get paid for it.

sh89

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Re: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2007, 09:33:02 PM »
My post is meant to be taken in jest.

Sorry for the misunderstanding!  :D lol

cassise

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Re: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2007, 01:04:03 AM »
We are now way of topic on a thread that was origionally about how most lawyers dont earn a lot of money.

I am Penny Lane

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Re: Salary Reality: Many Lawyers Don't Earn Big Bucks
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2007, 01:05:00 AM »
When are we not off topic?
LSN

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