Law School Discussion

What role does a minority population play in your decision?

t...

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Re: What role does a minority population play in your decision?
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2007, 12:00:41 PM »
LOL  I'm mad that they continued to confuse the two of you throughout the semester.

When I was looking at law schools (way way back in the day :P) I put all my info together and had this huge spreadsheet that I posted up on my wall that compared the stats from different schools.  I was looking at the California schools for a second, but that Prop 209 really did some noticeable damage to the CA schools in terms of numbers of black folk in each class.  I remember it being something rediculous like 8 or 9 students in an entering class of 2 or 300, depending upon the CA school - whereas, by contrast, the rest of the schools in the country had at least twice that amount.  On the east coast, the average number was like three or even four times that amount depending upon the school.

My hat goes off to anybody who made it through the CA law school system.


Even a school like Davis, which touts itself as among the most diverse school in the nation,  I found sorely lacking.

A professor there actually wrote an interesting essay on it, challenging the perception vs. the reality of diversity there (and in the UC system generally).


OperaAttorney

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Re: What role does a minority population play in your decision?
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2007, 12:14:50 PM »
Quote
Even a school like Davis, which touts itself as among the most diverse school in the nation,  I found sorely lacking.

A professor there actually wrote an interesting essay on it, challenging the perception vs. the reality of diversity there (and in the UC system generally).

UC Davis Law is a tough pill to swallow. I got accepted to UC Davis for undergrad, but I couldn't bear the thought of living in the middle of nowhere. And today, I still can't bear it. Nonetheless, UC Davis Law will be one of my "safety" schools b/c we all need at least 1 acceptance letter at the end of the day!  ;D

OperaAttorney

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Re: What role does a minority population play in your decision?
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2007, 12:16:25 PM »
Quote
A professor there actually wrote an interesting essay on it, challenging the perception vs. the reality of diversity there (and in the UC system generally).

How can I get my hands on this article?

t...

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Re: What role does a minority population play in your decision?
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2007, 01:58:28 PM »
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=721722

A Kinder, Gentler Law School? Race, Ethnicity, Gender, and Legal Education at King Hall

LISA R. PRUITT
University of California, Davis - School of Law
CELESTIAL S.D. CASSMAN
McDonough Holland & Allen PC - Sacramento Office
UC Davis Legal Studies Research Paper No. 41
UC Davis Law Review, Vol. 38, 2005
 

Abstract:     
Diversity is touted as a preeminent concern and important goal of the legal profession generally and of the UC Davis School of Law specifically. Known as King Hall (after Martin Luther King, Jr.), the UC Davis School of Law is relatively diverse compared to other law schools and enjoys a reputation as a kinder, gentler place to study law. This article and the study on which it is based investigate whether King Hall truly is, for students of various demographic backgrounds, the uniquely supportive community it purports to be. The article thus contributes to the burgeoning literature on the influence of a student's race, ethnicity and gender on her law school experience.

Based largely on extensive statistical analysis of a student survey conducted at King Hall in February 2004, we conclude that, as at other law schools, statistically significant differences exist between the self-reported experiences and perceptions of women and minority students, on the one hand, and their male and white peers, on the other. We also find that students' perceptions and experiences often evolve over the course of their time in law school, with students becoming more negative as their law school careers progress. The data and analysis reveal that race, ethnicity, gender and often class year are significant predictors of student comfort, satisfaction, and success.

Our study indicates that King Hall is, effectively, two different law schools. It is a comfortable and supportive place for those who might be considered mainstream or insiders, those who embody what we label the mean voice of King Hall. But it is an often uncomfortable and alienating place for many minority and women students, relative outsiders whose perspectives differ significantly from that mean, or average. This discomfort operates to their distinct detriment academically and emotionally.

We conclude that a disproportionate number of students of color and women do not experience King Hall as a kind, gentle, and supportive environment for the study of law. To address this inequality, we recommend that the leaders of King Hall renew their commitment to achieve even greater diversity among students, faculty and staff. We also argue, based on widespread and vehement criticism of the Socratic method by students of color and women, that the time has come to re-think and modify its use. Finally, we suggest that law schools frequently provide opportunities for all students to express their perceptions about their legal educations. Responses should then be evaluated by students' demographic features to ensure that the experiences of some groups are not obscured by the average.

The suggestions offered based on the study of King Hall may be appropriately implemented at other law schools, for if an institution as well intentioned and diverse as King Hall is alienating many students of color and women, it is reasonable to assume that other law schools may be even more hostile to these student populations. If law schools, as the gatekeepers of the legal profession, truly wish to diversify the profession and make it a more welcome and tolerable one for persons of diverse backgrounds, simply doing better than in the past, or doing better than other law schools, is not sufficient.

     

Re: What role does a minority population play in your decision?
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2007, 10:41:06 PM »
Yeah I knew that Sanders had (has?) a black wife.  I'd pay good money to hear those conversations on race.  That guy has major issues.

The personification of California's race policy embodied into a law professor.

Race and sex are so intertwined that I imagine those conversations happen in ways that would turn my stomach. No thanks! LOL

But I did not know that for what it's worth. Now I have to wonder about him...and HER!

Shark Week

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Re: What role does a minority population play in your decision?
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2007, 11:29:58 PM »
I'm kind of down on one of my favorite schools right now after visiting and seeing exactly 1 other black person in two days. I was warned of as much going in, but it's something you want to yourself. I think I'm probably less likely to go there if accepted now, so it's definitely a factor in my decisions.

naturallybeyoutiful

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Re: What role does a minority population play in your decision?
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2007, 07:29:54 AM »
I'm kind of down on one of my favorite schools right now after visiting and seeing exactly 1 other black person in two days. I was warned of as much going in, but it's something you want to yourself. I think I'm probably less likely to go there if accepted now, so it's definitely a factor in my decisions.

Whoa!   :o  One black person in two days?  On the whole campus or in the law school, in particular?  Where were you?  BC? ND?

Re: What role does a minority population play in your decision?
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2007, 07:51:29 AM »
I'm kind of down on one of my favorite schools right now after visiting and seeing exactly 1 other black person in two days. I was warned of as much going in, but it's something you want to yourself. I think I'm probably less likely to go there if accepted now, so it's definitely a factor in my decisions.

Whoa!   :o  One black person in two days?  On the whole campus or in the law school, in particular?  Where were you?  BC? ND?

He was prolly @ ND law. I've been to ND ug campus twice and he woulda seen more than 1 blk person in two days. Not by much but he woulda. The law school's blk pop is very small and South Bend does nothing 2 offset that.

Re: What role does a minority population play in your decision?
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2007, 10:02:50 AM »
I'm kind of down on one of my favorite schools right now after visiting and seeing exactly 1 other black person in two days. I was warned of as much going in, but it's something you want to yourself. I think I'm probably less likely to go there if accepted now, so it's definitely a factor in my decisions.

Whoa!   :o  One black person in two days?  On the whole campus or in the law school, in particular?  Where were you?  BC? ND?

He was prolly @ ND law. I've been to ND ug campus twice and he woulda seen more than 1 blk person in two days. Not by much but he woulda. The law school's blk pop is very small and South Bend does nothing 2 offset that.

You know I tell my people all the time that the being raised on the East Coast will give you a skewed perception of America. We're really only in about five states. All those blocks in the middle and towards the North are kind of sketchy.

I think this just reinforces how important site visits will probably be. And how expensive this undertaking is!

LBJFan

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Re: What role does a minority population play in your decision?
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2007, 10:56:21 AM »
Yeah...the expense part is not for chumps or the weak of heart. I'm kind of glad I didn't know about this site back when I was applying because I would've felt like I wasn't doing enough or not preparing enough or just not good enough! lol There are things I read on this site that are waaaaaaaaaay over the top to me.

Maybe things were different in 2004 but I was working full time and doing self study for about 6 weeks before I took the December LSAT. I applied at the deadline for all my schools. I accepted the one I wanted and I went. It was a fairly stress free process but being around here you would think it was absolute life or death...I dont think I could've handled viewing the process through the eyes of others while I was going through it...of course no offense to anyone, I just really didnt know people were this serious about their "cycles."

On the other hand, I think I would have benefited from the perspective of people who were actually in law school...learning the expectations etc. because I really had no clue going in. I didnt know anyone who had been to law school before I went.

If I had it all to do over again...I think I wouldve went to Case Western for free. Its not as "prestigious" as UCLA but to not have to hear from Sallie Mae at all...ever again?!? Thats priceless. Plus my whole family is in Cleveland so it wouldn't have been that bad..... oh the joys of second guessing!