T4 Unemployment Line?

[afer1500]

It's true there are $55K jobs out there for people who can't get to biglaw.  However, there's competition for those $55K jobs too, and you're gonna be competing against people with average grades from first-tier schools for them.  If you get some connections at your T4 school, you might find a job in your local area (some T4s are better than others).  Also you might not.  So, if you want to go to Western New England, your small town should probably be in Mass or NH, unless you have a job lined up already RIGHT NOW.

I agree than $70K is way too much to pay for a T4 degree.  Actually, even if it was free, the three years in lost opportunity cost might be too much to pay.  You likely will not make $55k to start, nor will you likely ever see $85k unless you start winning a few PI cases or wind up an insurance defense partner.  Just don't do it.

Sounds like an opinion.

[LawDad08]

"I agree than $70K is way too much to pay for a T4 degree.  Actually, even if it was free, the three years in lost opportunity cost might be too much to pay.  You likely will not make $55k to start, nor will you likely ever see $85k unless you start winning a few PI cases or wind up an insurance defense partner.  Just don't do it."

GEZZZZZ - what pessimistic people. You don't have a clue what's out there.

That $70,000 my daughter spent reflects 3 years of  tuition AND living expenses combined PLUS a summer in Europe.  In addition, it got her a SA job paying 100,000+ (annualized) and a job offer for when she graduates for way over 100,000.

Opportunity cost - she was making 25,000 as a legal secretary before she started.  So she lost 75,000 (gross) over 3 years but in return she now a job that she could pay back the loans in 1 year (if she wanted) and still come out ahead or, at worst, break even.

AND ALL THIS FROM A T4 - will wonders never cease.

I guess that you are afraid that the OP will graduate from a T4 and take your job away from you.


Note: She did not HAVE to go to a T4.  She had a LSAT of 165 without any studying.  Just took the test on a whim.
It would not surprise me if someone dared her to take it. If she had of studied there is no doubt (in my mind) she could have done a 170-175 (180 - naaaa, she's not a nerd).  I would bet she could have gotten into most any of the T1's if not all the T2's but that's not what she wanted.  She went to this school because it met the criteria she was looking for.

[guizot]

Since you know where you want to practice, have you looked at where lawyers in your town went to law school?  Unless you live in New England, there are probably no Western New England grads, or possibly one.  If you go to a law school known in your hometown, you will have a ready-made network, even if it is a T3 or 4.  If there are lower-ranked state schools in your area, consider them.  Residency is easy to get in some states.  Of course, you may have already thought of that.

Your credentials are not that bad, or not as bad a lot of people would have think.  You have a crack at T3 as well.  Numbers are not everything.

[stateofbeasley]

GEZZZZZ - what pessimistic people. You don't have a clue what's out there.

Actually, I do know what's out there.  I've been out in the workforce for a year now.  In my geographic area (mid Atlantic), T2 grads are mostly making between 39-60k.  Most are in the 43-45 range.

In addition, it got her a SA job paying 100,000+ (annualized) and a job offer for when she graduated for way over 100,000.

Which is great, but as you stated before, your daughter did exceptionally well in law school.  Most law students will be average and will not be commanding six figure salaries.  This is a mathematical reality.

AND ALL THIS FROM A T4 - will wonders never cease.

I guess that you are afraid that the OP will graduate from a T4 and take your job away from you.

Again, your story is not a typical case. 

It is possible to do very well from a T4, there is no question about it.  But people have to weigh the costs of the school versus the benefit.  There is never any guarantee that one will graduate at the top of the class, no matter how smart they are. 

I also have a job already, so I've no financial stake in keeping the OP out of a T4. 

[LawDad08]

stateofbeasley - this is NOT directed at you.

"It is possible to do very well from a T4, there is no question about it.  But people have to weigh the costs of the school versus the benefit.  There is never any guarantee that one will graduate at the top of the class, no matter how smart they are." 


That was my point exactly.  You can do well going to a T4 but you have to be realistic about yourself, your abilities and the job market.  It's just that so many people here are ready to bash the T4's just because they are T4's and for no other reason.

Everyone cannot go to HYS. That does not mean they need to roll over and die.  There are a lot of attorneys out there and they all didn't go to T1's. 

The OP was asking "is he being realistic".  In my opinion - yes.  If he has a dream and wants to better himself then he should seriously consider it.  What does he want? What does his wife want? Will his family support him in his quest?  Will he make it - who knows, but "GUARANTEED" he will not make it if he does not try.

This board should be used to encourage people and to help point out things that might get overlooked.  It just amazes me how many people here are ready to dump all over a poster, any poster and I don't understand why.

OK. I feel better now.  I'm ready for round 2.

[Sparkz1920]

Opportunity cost - she was making 25,000 as a legal secretary before she started.

If you managed to @#!* up UG that badly, maybe even a T4 law school is a good idea 

That's only like $2/hr more than minimum wage here.   An assistant manager at Starbucks makes more than that.

Are you trying to say her salary is commensurate with her GPA undergrad. I hope not.

Also, you dont know where she lives. 25K is not that bad in some parts of the US, especially the south

And besides all that, a job is better than no job at all. Employers arent paying college grads that much nowadays. We come a dime a dozen

[LawDad08]

"If you managed to @#!* up UG that badly, maybe even a T4 law school is a good idea".

And we are off - round 2.

Here is a perfect example of a post that the responder does not have a clue what he/she is talking about.

Her UG GPA was 3.8 (cum laude) with a major in French. It could have been highter (summa) but she slacked back her senior year - just plain ole burnout.

She worked for a year after graduation and just hated the job.  She wanted to move to a major city and took the first job she was offered.  She had talked of going to law school in high school and working at a law firm for a few years peaked her long lost interest.

But you are correct. She did @#$%^& her UG/GPA. It could have been a 3.9 or 3.95.

[Sparkz1920]

"If you managed to @#!* up UG that badly, maybe even a T4 law school is a good idea".

And we are off - round 2.

Here is a perfect example of a post that the responder does not have a clue what he/she is talking about.

Her UG GPA was 3.8 (cum laude) with a major in French. It could have been highter (summa) but she slacked back her senior year - just plain ole burnout.

She worked for a year after graduation and just hated the job.  She wanted to move to a major city and took the first job she was offered.  She had talked of going to law school in high school and working at a law firm for a few years peaked her long lost interest.

But you are correct. She did @#$%^& her UG/GPA. It could have been a 3.9 or 3.95.

Exactly

Employers could really care less whether or not you excelled in UG or not. If they want to pay you 30K, then thats what you;'ll get. You have to work your way up. Many UG's dont have solid work exp, so str8 outta college, you may get stuck with a job like that depending on your field

my sorority sister graduate with honors in a very hard major where only about 10 of them graduated. My gpa wasnt nearly as good as hers, but i found myself a gig before she did. Matter of fact, i sure hope she gets this job she just interviewed for

Kudos to your daughter for making it to Law School and doing well.

[awesomepossum]

I'm surprised wiimote isn't all over this.

[The F-cktard Express]

Just ignore waitlisted - he only got into GULC, and he has some festering, pus-filled STD that makes him a pretty bitter dude.