Law School Discussion

Kaplan?

Kaplan?
« on: August 03, 2007, 08:44:54 PM »
Does anyone have any positive remarks about the class?

Re: Kaplan?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2007, 07:29:08 AM »
Get your money back ASAP. And run.

Re: Kaplan?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2007, 08:59:00 AM »
Get your money back ASAP. And run.


 :D :D :D
Yeah, i heard that as well. You will be better off without taking Kraplan

Re: Kaplan?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2007, 02:23:18 PM »
I would ask for a refund ASAP.  The problem with Kaplan and PR for that matter is that their instructors only need to score in the 163-164 range and they only need to do it on a PRACTICE TEST!  They likely may never have taken a real LSAT before in their life.  I've had students complain that their friends become instructors for these companies and they know nothing/little about the test.

The problem with TM, PS, and BP is that many of their instructors are essentially temps.  They are doing this to make some money before heading out to law school, therefore they don't ever invest much effort in teaching techniques, learning about the LSAT in depth or the admissions process. 

Since your instructor is the primary factor in course satisfaction, you should inquire about their qualifications before signing up for any course.

That's entirely untrue.  All Kaplan test people have to score in the 95th percentile or above on an actual LSAT.  Where are you getting that information from? 

I had a great experience with Kaplan.  My score went up 10 points from what I was testing at before and I didn't really study that much outside of class.  I learn very well in a classroom setting, so it was great for me.

Re: Kaplan?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2007, 02:45:52 PM »
This is really more of a rant than a direct response to the OP's question, but here's my big problem with Kaplan, PR, and prep courses generally. They are not geared towards people who are trying to get 172+ scores.

In order to have a realistic shot at the 99th percentile, you need to be able to understand every type of problem you might encounter going into the test.

On games, you need to be able to get through the entire section, consistently, averaging no more than maybe 2 misses.

On arguments, you need to be able to work fast enough that you'll have time to go through the parallel reasoning questions carefully.

On reading, you need to be able to get through the entire section without rushing, and without missing questions.

In short, the strategies that the test prep companies put forward (such as skipping the hardest game, longest LR questions, etc.) are great if you're just aiming for the 90th percentile, but useless if you are aiming for the top.

For example, diagramming LR questions will ensure that you get something like 20 questions per section right, but if you do it this way, you won't have enough time to get to the other 4 questions per section.

But I'm just speaking from my own experience, as someone who only self-prepped. Is there anyone out there who got a gigantic score and found taking a course useful?

Re: Kaplan?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2007, 04:00:33 PM »

That's entirely untrue.  All Kaplan test people have to score in the 95th percentile or above on an actual LSAT.  Where are you getting that information from? 


Try looking at the Kaplan Craigslist ads in the jobs section for any major city.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/edu/388451593.html
(this ad was posted yesterday)

Part-Time GMAT, GRE, LSAT, DAT, and MCAT Instructors (6-20 hrs/wk):

    * Our minimum score requirements are as follows: GMAT: 680 LSAT: 164 GRE: 1400 (combined) DAT: 20-21 (per section) MCAT: 11 (on each section for which you wish to teach)
    * If your scores are more than five years old, you may take a qualifying test at any Kaplan center.
    * Classes are held in our centers as well as throughout the community. Those willing to travel must have access to transportation (mileage compensated in line with prevailing policy).
    * No teaching experience is necessary (although it is preferred). We will train you to be a great instructor. Prep and training are paid.



My teacher has never taken the LSAT. And you can tell.  She does not understand the special " unless rule"

Re: Kaplan?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2007, 11:23:23 AM »
I guess the percentile scores are different in DC.  I was told you have to be at least 95th percentile to teach a class, but I understand the DC market is competitive for stuff like this.

Like I said, Kaplan worked great for me. I learn much better in a classroom environment than self teaching.  I don't have any experience with any other test prep classes, so i can't speak to them, but everyone that I know that has taken Kaplan has been quite satisfied with their results. 

As far as other people who have complained, I think the general rule is that people who are upset about something are going to be much more vocal and outspoken than people who are satisfied.

Re: Kaplan?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2007, 11:41:24 AM »
I'm a little uneasy after reading a few threads about Kaplan's prep course.  Does anyone have any positive remarks about the class?  I mean, I just dropped $1300.

I'm currently in a Kaplan class now and the only thing I'm really getting out of it is taking practice tests in an environment similar to that of test day. I don't like their methods for logic games and am using lg bible instead. However, if you learn better in a classroom setting and aren't good at self-prep, you might get something out of it. Basically I was dumb and knew better than to drop 1300 bucks because I'm good at teaching myself. In the end I would love to have that money back.  :-\

Re: Kaplan?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2007, 12:53:42 PM »
I guess the percentile scores are different in DC.  I was told you have to be at least 95th percentile to teach a class, but I understand the DC market is competitive for stuff like this.



Yeah, they have higher requirements in some markets.  That said, 95th percentile isn't usually enough to get into a T14. 


It's not?


Would you say a 166 is usually enough to get into a T14?  Do most students with 166's get into T14's?

I don't know the metrical data for sure, but I just tried putting a 167 (which is the actual 95th percentile) LSAT with a 3.75 GPA (would you say that's about average for that score?) into the LSAC admit calculator thing, and it looks like you'd have a decent shot at 5 or so of the top 14 (about 40% each). So all other things being equal, that would come out to .6 * .6 * .6 * .6 * .6 = only about a 13% chance of being rejected by all of them, so, yes, a 167 (assuming a reasonable GPA) looks like it would be good enough to land you somewhere in the T-14.

EDIT: my guess is that although there are way more people with 95th percentile scores and above than there are slots in the T14, a lot of the marginal admits at places like Cornell, Michigan, Georgetown etc. end up going to somewhat lesser schools where they can get some money (W & M, USC, etc.). So, you're right, most don't, but I think you might be underestimating the admissions chances of a candidate with those numbers.

Re: Kaplan?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2007, 02:41:17 PM »
It's just easier for people to think that numbers is all that matters because it's convenient.

They are all that matter, ceteris paribus, and for the most part, the assumption holds.  Outliers will always exist, but that's no reason to deride the numbers-only model.


Having served on an admissions committee, I know what they are looking for and how they think.  Every year I make it a point to talk to admissions directors and deans to stay current.  This past year I got a person with a 2.6 GPA/162 LSAT into a T1 school.  I've gotten people who are in the bottom 1% in BOTH LSAT and GPA for a particular school into that school.  I've gotten a guy with MULTIPLE felony convictions into his top choice.  I've helped a person who was caught forging documents to LSAC into his/her #2 school.  I've about seen every problem there is and so I'd say I have more experience than you in the matter.  The numbers only model is largely accurate, but that's because most people do not get GOOD professional help.

Are you tutoring people that live in the hood?  A multiple felon, a document forging fraudster, a 179 LSAT that got rejected from 9 out of 10 (did he write his PS with a crayon and draw a sunshine with a rainbow?)

At least people like that pay in cash, typically with a wad of small bills, lots of 5's and 10's. Just make sure to wipe off all the cocaine from the bills before you put them in your wallet or take them to the bank!


LOL, yeah he seems awfully proud of having "helped a person who was caught forging documents to LSAC into his/her #2 school."  Not sure if he should be serving on admissions committees like he claims.


Being circumspect, if he is planning on going into criminal defense he will probably have a leg up on knowing the clients and what he is dealing with.  :D

There's no shame in honest work. The question is whether working for the betterment of the dishonest constitutes honest work...