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Author Topic: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?  (Read 7951 times)

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Re: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2007, 09:43:02 AM »
The reason people care isn't because the media is pushing it on them, it's because every once in a while, somebody in a position that others dream of being in, does something so horrible it shocks the collective conscience of the country.  Some things -such as the slaughter of cows- might bother some and not others, but it's generally accepted and legal.  I thin kwe can agree on that.  Dog fighting is not only illegal, but seen by most people as sick and unnacceptable.  Add to that the fact that dogs were hanged, electrified, and beat into the ground until dead.  There's such a disregard for life that it is shocking.  That's why this is different.

And it has been shown in numerous studies that abuse to animals leads to and is a pre-indicator of abuse and violence toward people.

And do you guys REALLY think OJ deserved to get off???


Arthur Blanks and Nike and every NFL fan should be happy then - Vicks in a violent sport.

OJ paid for it, why not?  its the way our system works isnt it?  haha..it works for a black man and here we are talking about it almost 15 years later.  whats that say?


To the first point:  there is a difference between the structured "violence" of a contact sport such a football or hockey than violence off the field - and it is THIS violence to which I was referring.  It has been shown time after time that the ability to abuse animals leads to the abuse of people.  Plus, people rarely view the QB as a really violent player in the NFL.  I mean just take one look at the Manning brothers!

To the second, oh PLEASE!  Why does everyone always say "you're just mad 'cause OJ was Black?"  Yes, he got good lawyers and won.  But he also most likely killed them (did anyone hear the title to that little book he was going to release??).  It has nothing to do with race - it has to do with celebrity.  People aren't upset that a Black man got off, but that somone got off because of celebrity status.  Why does everything always ALWAYS seem to need to be about White people being angry when Black people do well?  I'm White, and let me assure you that I don;t spend my day getting angry whenever a Black person does well.  What impact does that REALLY have on my life?  None.

Vicks not Manning in case you havent noticed.  the guy runs with wolves.  I'd say you need a
certain edge - violence about you if you will - to go headlong into an endzone with 8 guys, all bigger than you, trying to take your freaking head off.  And I don't care what violence YOU were talking about.  you referenced a study, which to my knowledge, has not made such a distinction - that study just drew correlates between animal abuse and human violence.  If there is a distinction between structured human violence and non structured, post the study please. and I dont think there is such a difference anyway, as violence from athletes in violent sports routinely spills over off the field.  most people arent that great at compartmentalizing.


As for OJ, it is what it is, here you are talking about the sh*t 15 years later...why?  and the manner with which you bring OJ up - as in: you black people are always having issues with race when there is not one there, because why else are you all making a fuss about vick - goes against what you say about him being black not mattering to you.  Indeed, the only reason you brought OJ up was because he was black!  No one mentioned dudes name til you came in here!! To me, he has nothing to do with this.  To you, he is representative of black people having phantom issues with race, so dont say you dont care hes black.  thats ridiculous, and you are see thru.

It's an everyday thing man.  People are getting away with murder today!  why do you have to go back fifteen years to one of the only black men in U.S. history to publically pay up, and get away with murder..what point are you trying to make?
 
 
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Re: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2007, 10:24:42 AM »
Well, you're right about Vick and the Manning brothers (esp since I'm a Giants fan and got the crappy Manning on my team  :-\ ).  The study, however, was regarding domestic violence and violent crimes and did not include data on structured violence such as sporting events.  I'll go on JSTOR in a few minutes and find it - it was in the Journal of the APA from like the late 80's-early 90's.  Anyway, the point was that it is ONE indicator of problems to come.

Second of all, the OJ comment had NOTHING to do with his being Black or paying a good lawyer.  It was used as an illustration in conjunction with the Lohan, Hilton, et al references to celebrities getting away with everything and media coverage and the like.  It was just another illustration of someone's celebrity allowing them to skirt responsibility and the point was that perhaps Vick won;t be able to do this and perhaps this signals a change in the way we evaluate our entertainers (God I hpe so!).

And for you to superimpose a racist intent on that is by far one of the single most insulting things I could imagine.  You do not know me, have never met me, and are in no position to know - better than I - my intent in a statement. 

but no one was talking about celebrities getting away with anything throughout this entire discussion. in fact, the only one to get away with anything was OJ.  Dont jumble him up with Lohan and Hilton and Vick - who have only been discussed in the context of biased media coverage.  And it's nice of you to say this:  "It was just another illustration of someone's celebrity allowing them to skirt responsibility and the point was that perhaps Vick won;t be able to do this and perhaps this signals a change in the way we evaluate our entertainers (God I hpe so!)." but you are just now bringing this up, and if it was really your intent to discuss that, than maybe you should have said that instead of :"And do you guys REALLY think OJ deserved to get off???"...

ahaa @ most insulting.  I love false pride in action.  as if you, or anybody else for that matter, does not see skin color.  You brought up OJ because he is black, and got away with murder.  if he just got away with murder, you wouldnt be on BLSD asking us "guys" if we really thought he deserved to get off.  what does that have to do with Vick?  you dont know if Vicks guilty or innocent to be "getting off" as it were, anyway.


dont even bother with the study. I believe you, but you didnt make that distinction in the OP.  Besides, an indicator of violence doesn't mean much to me.  Alot of folk think my skin color is an indicator of violence. 




 
The Tragicomic: Itís embodied in the blues, jazz, (HIP HOP, CORNELL <<one slight deserves another!!!!<< REALLY MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE!!!) and the African experience in the New World -- the ability to withstand terrorism, embrace oneís worst enemies lovingly and bear the unbearable in song.

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Re: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2007, 10:54:23 AM »
ACTUALLY what I said was "And if OJ isn't proof that sports players can 'get away with murder...'" upon which people began speaking of the verdict to which I made a reply in which the "you guys" referred to those who made the aforementioned comments.

But I suppose there is nothing I can say.  It seems that you;ve decided I;m a racist.  Well, how nice of you to let me know.  I'm going to go do something PRODUCTIVE with my day.

this reminds me of this diversity training I went to last week.  I was the only black guy in a group of 7 white men and no other race.  they asked us to name percieved positive and negative aspects of Affirmative Action.  This group could not name one negative.  It was like my existence was some cosmic trick where people didn't say things like "Quota hire" and "Reverse Racism", in this world I found myself, people had never even heard of these words!  needless to say, when they passed around the student assessments.  I was like how bout making the groups more diverse!  a little bit of practice what you preach methods in the cubes and corner offices.  But now I digress/progress.

oh yeah.  enjoy your day
The Tragicomic: Itís embodied in the blues, jazz, (HIP HOP, CORNELL <<one slight deserves another!!!!<< REALLY MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE!!!) and the African experience in the New World -- the ability to withstand terrorism, embrace oneís worst enemies lovingly and bear the unbearable in song.

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Re: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2007, 05:10:10 PM »
ACTUALLY what I said was "And if OJ isn't proof that sports players can 'get away with murder...'" upon which people began speaking of the verdict to which I made a reply in which the "you guys" referred to those who made the aforementioned comments.

But I suppose there is nothing I can say.  It seems that you;ve decided I;m a racist.  Well, how nice of you to let me know.  I'm going to go do something PRODUCTIVE with my day.

this reminds me of this diversity training I went to last week.  I was the only black guy in a group of 7 white men and no other race.  they asked us to name percieved positive and negative aspects of Affirmative Action.  This group could not name one negative.  It was like my existence was some cosmic trick where people didn't say things like "Quota hire" and "Reverse Racism", in this world I found myself, people had never even heard of these words! needless to say, when they passed around the student assessments.  I was like how bout making the groups more diverse!  a little bit of practice what you preach methods in the cubes and corner offices.  But now I digress/progress.

oh yeah.  enjoy your day

However, I am sure at least 3/7 spent their free time on forums like LSD using those words.  :D I felt the same way at my undergrad. When having a debate on race relations it seemed like everyone agreed; when in reality, those who didn't agree kept their mouths shut. Instead of openly sharing their viewpoint, many opted to send an anonymous editorial to the school newspaper.

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Re: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2007, 09:09:33 PM »
ACTUALLY what I said was "And if OJ isn't proof that sports players can 'get away with murder...'" upon which people began speaking of the verdict to which I made a reply in which the "you guys" referred to those who made the aforementioned comments.

But I suppose there is nothing I can say.  It seems that you;ve decided I;m a racist.  Well, how nice of you to let me know.  I'm going to go do something PRODUCTIVE with my day.

 

this reminds me of this diversity training I went to last week.  I was the only black guy in a group of 7 white men and no other race.  they asked us to name percieved positive and negative aspects of Affirmative Action.  This group could not name one negative.  It was like my existence was some cosmic trick where people didn't say things like "Quota hire" and "Reverse Racism", in this world I found myself, people had never even heard of these words! needless to say, when they passed around the student assessments.  I was like how bout making the groups more diverse!  a little bit of practice what you preach methods in the cubes and corner offices.  But now I digress/progress.

oh yeah.  enjoy your day

However, I am sure at least 3/7 spent their free time on forums like LSD using those words.  :D I felt the same way at my undergrad. When having a debate on race relations it seemed like everyone agreed; when in reality, those who didn't agree kept their mouths shut. Instead of openly sharing their viewpoint, many opted to send an anonymous editorial to the school newspaper.

See, I somewhat understand where those students are coming from.  While nobody should have to tolerate blatantly racist opinions, there are some people who have well thought out, logical objections to certain race issues.  Yet it is sometimes the case that by simply airing those opinions, one is called racist when, in fact, they just have a differing opinion.

I personally don;t prescribe to that.  If one has something to say, it should be said in a polite and respectful manner.  However, I DO understand those that fear being labled as something they are not for simply expressing a view that happens to go against political correctness.

I think our language fails us when it comes to this.  when the word racist is used it can be said to describe slave owners and lynchers to people that are just ignorant to people that mean no harm at all and are the kindest people in the world but have misconceptions.  using the word kills discourse.  I think we should make the word have degrees.  Like you are a 9th degree racist which includes bla bla, or a first degree which only includes innocent sh*t, but whatever.  I think people should feel free to discuss racial issues without necessarily being called a racist.  I see where those folks in my group were coming from, but it was frustrating, and when I started naming negative aspects people became real uneasy.  I dont think they were racist.  Its just the nature of race relations.
The Tragicomic: Itís embodied in the blues, jazz, (HIP HOP, CORNELL <<one slight deserves another!!!!<< REALLY MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE!!!) and the African experience in the New World -- the ability to withstand terrorism, embrace oneís worst enemies lovingly and bear the unbearable in song.

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Re: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2007, 02:45:09 AM »
aye think people on this board are paying more attention to michael vick than barack obama...

folk on this board complain about fox, cnn, msnbc...but they are still watching it.

they are gonna let a status-quo politico european-american female be their choice to be president when an innovative, insightful and new generational african-american is on the threshold to become the President of the usa...

aye think some folk would rather be light and easy...bash bush...bash vick than get behind a real agent of CHANGE for african americans...

complacency and negativity...doesn't seem to change does it...


...but ironically...change is here...

...and y'all gonna let that opportunity slide too, right?

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Re: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2007, 03:01:25 AM »

I think our language fails us when it comes to this.  when the word racist is used it can be said to describe slave owners and lynchers to people that are just ignorant to people that mean no harm at all and are the kindest people in the world but have misconceptions.  using the word kills discourse.  I think we should make the word have degrees.  Like you are a 9th degree racist which includes bla bla, or a first degree which only includes innocent sh*t, but whatever.  I think people should feel free to discuss racial issues without necessarily being called a racist.  I see where those folks in my group were coming from, but it was frustrating, and when I started naming negative aspects people became real uneasy.  I dont think they were racist.  Its just the nature of race relations.



You're absolutely right!  I always assume racist to imply intent.  Ignorance is the other spectrum.  And I can tell you - from a White perspective - why those members of your group feel uncomfortable:

It is often told to White people - by our families and well meaning friends - not to engage in racial conversations with Black people.  For whatever reason, we are taught that it is not apropriate for us to discuss any aspects of Black culture or Black / White relations that upset us, for fear of being called discriminatory.  I'm not saying that every Black person takes every comment someone makes as racist.  I'm just saying that it's often instilled in us from early on that if we disagree with any politically correct position, we are racist.

Now, I disagree with a lot of things that are politically correct.  But that doesn't mean that I don't value my Black friends and their views and opinions.  It simply means that my experiences and beliefs have led me to different conclusions, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.  Even if it is blood boiling, discourse is a good thing.  People remaining silent, concealing their true fealings, is what breeds resentment and true hatred.


you are giving too much credit to the passe and debunked term, "race"...it has NO real meaning...what you are really...for real...no really discussing is SKIN COLOR not race...these people who judge others on their skin color are, COLORISTS...

if you want to follow the "passe" and "european labeling" line of reasoning then it is important to note that in {for example} sub-saharan africa  their are MANY races among people whose skin color is chocolate-brown.

just thought aye'd clear that up for ya. 8)
If you prick us, do we not bleed?  
  if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison  
  us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not  
  revenge? m.of v. w.shaka                                             speare

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Re: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2007, 08:13:36 AM »

I think our language fails us when it comes to this.  when the word racist is used it can be said to describe slave owners and lynchers to people that are just ignorant to people that mean no harm at all and are the kindest people in the world but have misconceptions.  using the word kills discourse.  I think we should make the word have degrees.  Like you are a 9th degree racist which includes bla bla, or a first degree which only includes innocent sh*t, but whatever.  I think people should feel free to discuss racial issues without necessarily being called a racist.  I see where those folks in my group were coming from, but it was frustrating, and when I started naming negative aspects people became real uneasy.  I dont think they were racist.  Its just the nature of race relations.



You're absolutely right!  I always assume racist to imply intent.  Ignorance is the other spectrum.  And I can tell you - from a White perspective - why those members of your group feel uncomfortable:

It is often told to White people - by our families and well meaning friends - not to engage in racial conversations with Black people.  For whatever reason, we are taught that it is not apropriate for us to discuss any aspects of Black culture or Black / White relations that upset us, for fear of being called discriminatory.  I'm not saying that every Black person takes every comment someone makes as racist.  I'm just saying that it's often instilled in us from early on that if we disagree with any politically correct position, we are racist.

Now, I disagree with a lot of things that are politically correct.  But that doesn't mean that I don't value my Black friends and their views and opinions.  It simply means that my experiences and beliefs have led me to different conclusions, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.  Even if it is blood boiling, discourse is a good thing.  People remaining silent, concealing their true fealings, is what breeds resentment and true hatred.


you are giving too much credit to the passe and debunked term, "race"...it has NO real meaning...what you are really...for real...no really discussing is SKIN COLOR not race...these people who judge others on their skin color are, COLORISTS...

if you want to follow the "passe" and "european labeling" line of reasoning then it is important to note that in {for example} sub-saharan africa  their are MANY races among people whose skin color is chocolate-brown.

just thought aye'd clear that up for ya. 8)


colorist makes sense.  I'm aware of three "black" races in sub saharan africa. at any rate, our language fails when it comes to nuance and the term racist.

"folk on this board complain about fox, cnn, msnbc...but they are still watching it."

I watch everything.  Also, I dont see Obama as being on the brink of anything. and even if i did, him being black doesnt do it for me.  thats not freedom or change, to me.  still operating inside that COLORIST box...
The Tragicomic: Itís embodied in the blues, jazz, (HIP HOP, CORNELL <<one slight deserves another!!!!<< REALLY MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE!!!) and the African experience in the New World -- the ability to withstand terrorism, embrace oneís worst enemies lovingly and bear the unbearable in song.

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Re: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2007, 09:15:42 AM »
Finally, yes, the meat industry feeds many people, but that is no excuse for the horrific manner in which they choose to go about it. There is a humane way to raise these animals and prepare them for slaughter, it's in the Bible. The meat industry also tortures animals, but because they do it for production purposes, that makes it ok?  ??? WTF ever.

Bolded #1; I agree, but this thread is about Vick not the food production, and using the argument that "other people do worse things" as defense is dumb.
Bolded #2; Who gives a *&^% if it's in the bible...
Bolded #3; No it doesn't make it ok, but it is more acceptable when it is part of something that serves a purpose, not just mindless entertainment for idiots with too much money and time.

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Re: Micheal Vick: Is it just me?
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2007, 09:25:40 AM »
A five page thread on Michael Vick? Also, from what I read everyone is saying pretty much the same thing that it is a complete waste of time..but is pre-season and with all the teams returning to training camp right now it is the hottest sports story since Pete Rose. It is getting way more coverage than the NBA game fixing scandal and Barry -I did not take steroids Bonds surpassing Hank Aarons home run record. But what has amazed me in all this is the media constant printing of the racial divide among sports fans on this issue. This is not black people creating a racial issue where there is none it is the media creating the issue. Since I am a huge football fan(Go Steelers!!!) and live in Atlanta the part that sickens me is this whole...the Feds are just picking on him because he is black and my favorite line by far. "Vick is a role model for countless young black men and the Feds are just doing this to so that young black men will just feel hopeless. WTF??? When in the hell did Michael Vick become a martyr for the black race? Look I know quite a few black men who are die hard Falcons fan and were long before Michael Vick, they are purchasing their season tickets and will be there to support their team regardless of Vick. If anything they are calling this whole thing a distraction for the team. Trust me I don't know personally too many black people screaming Free Vick, most are screaming get the hell on with training camp and bring home some wins.