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Author Topic: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?  (Read 28260 times)

ilsox7

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #110 on: August 08, 2007, 12:24:59 AM »
I thought this topic was started under the premise of someone checking a URM box when they knew they weren't a URM.  Of course if someone truly believes they are the URM of the box they check, it is not unethical.  But if you blatantly lie, it demonstrates a lack of integrity.

It was, but my point is that there's a huge gray area between blatant lying and what the form is actually meant to solicit.

It may demonstrate a lack of integrity, but I think it would be difficult, if not impossible, for there to be repercussions, which is the subject of the thread.

And in the end, those without integrity end up where they deserve to be.

In Hell after a life as a multi-millionaire?

People who lie and steal generally are caught.  I could list plenty of examples from business, but eventually, the *&^% hits the fan.

Matthew

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #111 on: August 08, 2007, 12:32:18 AM »
I thought this topic was started under the premise of someone checking a URM box when they knew they weren't a URM.  Of course if someone truly believes they are the URM of the box they check, it is not unethical.  But if you blatantly lie, it demonstrates a lack of integrity.

It was, but my point is that there's a huge gray area between blatant lying and what the form is actually meant to solicit.

It may demonstrate a lack of integrity, but I think it would be difficult, if not impossible, for there to be repercussions, which is the subject of the thread.

And in the end, those without integrity end up where they deserve to be.

In Hell after a life as a multi-millionaire?

People who lie and steal generally are caught.  I could list plenty of examples from business, but eventually, the sh*t hits the fan.

That's a preposterous statement in that it's impossible to verify in any way.  No matter how many people are caught, you have no idea how many aren't, and therefore can't say that they "generally are caught."

Even if this were true, arguing that it follows that lying about being a URM will be caught is a classic fallacy of division.  Just because it's generally true doesn't make it at all the case in this situation.
Cycle finally finished!

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Matthew

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #112 on: August 08, 2007, 12:40:12 AM »
The only requirement is that you  truly identify with that group or are a member of the group .

Maybe that's how you think it should be, but that's not a requirement at all.  Applications generally ask for "Ethnicity" or "Racial/Ethnic Description", not "With which ethnicity do you identify?"

Which brings us back to the question earlier of a white person adopted by a URM and raised in that culture but with none of their blood.  Your system seems to say that they would check the URM box, when that's not what the application asks for.
Cycle finally finished!

170/3.82
Accepted: Michigan($$), UCLA, Virginia($$), Duke($$), Georgetown, Vanderbilt($$$), Notre Dame($$$), William & Mary($$$)
Deferred: Northwestern
Waitlisted: Penn ($$)
Rejected: Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Chicago

Matthew

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #113 on: August 08, 2007, 12:46:03 AM »
They can still check other. and explain their situation.

But why choose other and lose your 8-10 point gain from checkng the box for URM status?
Cycle finally finished!

170/3.82
Accepted: Michigan($$), UCLA, Virginia($$), Duke($$), Georgetown, Vanderbilt($$$), Notre Dame($$$), William & Mary($$$)
Deferred: Northwestern
Waitlisted: Penn ($$)
Rejected: Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Chicago

ilsox7

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #114 on: August 08, 2007, 12:47:24 AM »
I know of one white person who was raised in an hispanic household that checked the box for hispanic on their application.  For his entire story, look around LSD some.

As for everything else, this thread has devolved into theoretical bull about proving every person in the world is either a liar or not.  In reality, people who go about lying on a consistent basis in professional environments are caught.  The bottom line is that there are plenty of data points available about every single applicant to a State Bar that it is well within the realm of possibility that someone could be caught cold in a lie.  Does that mean they will be caught 100% of the time or even 25% of the time?  Not at all.  But if you do not believe that it is a realistic possibility, then you're quite naive.


sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #115 on: August 08, 2007, 12:54:28 AM »
Hopefully, within the next 50 years, white people are surpassed as being the majority in America, and then we might get an 8-10 point boost.  Maybe, I'll just wait to take the LSAT again then... :D
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill

wellpreserved

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #116 on: August 08, 2007, 11:04:26 AM »
See Supreme Court Case Grutter vs Bollinger - The famous University of Michigan Law School AA case has lots of good charts that show a clear difference in admissions standards for URMs...also just look at lawschoolnumbers.com you will see that the only people admitted under certain index scores for many schools are URMs.... it is clearly a huge boost.

And, again, I totally suggest you go for it! Stick it to those URMs, get what's rightfully yours, flip a big eff you to the racial inequities so many majority Americans face everyday. Do it and then tell us every detail.

Summer TV sucks.
I tested between 151 and 162. I hoped for the high end and ended up in the middle. Still, not a bad plan overall, I think.

LSAT: 156 (not taking it again and you can't make me)
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sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #117 on: August 08, 2007, 11:40:42 AM »
AA doesn't make up for any inequality faced by a URM.  First, it assumes that the individual has faced any inequality by being an URM.  Second, it doesn't apply for all minorities.  Didn't/don't Asians face similar inequalities, i.e. internment/concentration camps?  Third, AA is still class-based.  The minorities from wealthier backgrounds, will take the positions that should have went to the poorer minorities.  I always give as an example my black friend who went to St. Albans (at 25k per year for grades K-12, Al Gore's son went here), and now attends Georgetown for undergrad.  Does anyone really think that he should receive 8-10 points for just being black?

What about obese people?  What about skinny people (like me, 6'2" 142 lbs)?  What about extraordinary ugly people?  Really short people (not midgets, just people under 5 feet tall)?  What about extra-tall people (7 ft. plus)?  What about past victims of heinous crimes?

Don't these people suffer from similar inequalities?  Why shouldn't they receive any extra points?
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill

sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #118 on: August 08, 2007, 02:13:54 PM »
But honestly, I think the whole thing about affording a prep course is a sham.  Every year in college my Expected Family Contribution was 0.  I received a full Pell Grant annually, and student loans.

1500 bucks is a lot to dish out, but it is worth taking out a student loan out to take the prep course.  I honestly think that nearly everyone who wants to take the prep course, could do so.
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill

sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #119 on: August 08, 2007, 03:01:32 PM »
Now you are asserting that credit card companies provide equal opportunity in credit approval for minorities.  :D
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill