Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?

[Matthew]

I guess I just do not understand how difficult it would be for the Bar Association to compare your college application to your law school application.  If you were white in college but hispanic in law school, you'd have some problems.

They wouldn't have ones college app, they'd have their transcripts, which do not list race.

Many institutions collect race data but do not disseminate it, as they'll tell you, it's collected for statistical reporting only, and in many cases, is not even tied to the applicant.

[ilsox7]

I guess I just do not understand how difficult it would be for the Bar Association to compare your college application to your law school application.  If you were white in college but hispanic in law school, you'd have some problems.

Me too. AND I don't think the problem starts with the BAR. I think your first problem would be with your law school. Again, they don't have to prove anything. They can just pull the money.

I don't put much faith in law school administrators to actually go above and beyond their job to figure something out.  My experience with most of them has left me to believe the majority are fairly inept.  State Bar Associations, on the other hand, spend lots of time investigating their applicants.

[sc3pt0r]

Not if you found out that your great-great-great-great-grandfather was from Spain and had blue eyes and blonde hair.

I think it's pretty sweet that I went to a historically black college for undergrad.  When I didn't identify as a particular race, I'm sure that the schools I applied to (most of them in Texas, probably familiar with my school) assumed that I wasn't white.  I mean, there aren't a whole lot of non-minorities at my school.

[ilsox7]

I guess I just do not understand how difficult it would be for the Bar Association to compare your college application to your law school application.  If you were white in college but hispanic in law school, you'd have some problems.

They wouldn't have ones college app, they'd have their transcripts, which do not list race.

Many institutions collect race data but do not disseminate it, as they'll tell you, it's collected for statistical reporting only, and in many cases, is not even tied to the applicant.

At least in the state I am in, our Bar asks for every college I've ever attended.  Given that it took them 14 months to complete their initial review of my application, I do not think it is even remotely out of the question that they have a copy of my college application. 

[wellpreserved]

I guess I just do not understand how difficult it would be for the Bar Association to compare your college application to your law school application.  If you were white in college but hispanic in law school, you'd have some problems.

They wouldn't have ones college app, they'd have their transcripts, which do not list race.

Many institutions collect race data but do not disseminate it, as they'll tell you, it's collected for statistical reporting only, and in many cases, is not even tied to the applicant.

Again, I just looked at my high school and college transcripts and both list my race and the race of my parents. Does that information not become apart of your official law school record? And is that record not used as the starting point for your BAR app?

[Matthew]

I guess I just do not understand how difficult it would be for the Bar Association to compare your college application to your law school application.  If you were white in college but hispanic in law school, you'd have some problems.

Me too. AND I don't think the problem starts with the BAR. I think your first problem would be with your law school. Again, they don't have to prove anything. They can just pull the money.

Schools, as Ivey explains, don't want to know that you're lying.  It's too awkward to have a policy on it (What's black? 1/4? 1/8?) and they get to report you as a minority if you report yourself as one, so they don't really care to know.  There is no way for them to tactfully, or even effectively verify race, so they don't do it.

[Matthew]

I guess I just do not understand how difficult it would be for the Bar Association to compare your college application to your law school application.  If you were white in college but hispanic in law school, you'd have some problems.

They wouldn't have ones college app, they'd have their transcripts, which do not list race.

Many institutions collect race data but do not disseminate it, as they'll tell you, it's collected for statistical reporting only, and in many cases, is not even tied to the applicant.

Again, I just looked at my high school and college transcripts and both list my race and the race of my parents. Does that information not become apart of your official law school record? And is that record not used as the starting point for your BAR app?

I'm really surprised by that.  Neither my high school nor college transcripts list race.  My college transcript has my name, ID number, date of birth, and address, and that's it.

[wellpreserved]

I guess I just do not understand how difficult it would be for the Bar Association to compare your college application to your law school application.  If you were white in college but hispanic in law school, you'd have some problems.

Me too. AND I don't think the problem starts with the BAR. I think your first problem would be with your law school. Again, they don't have to prove anything. They can just pull the money.

Schools, as Ivey explains, don't want to know that you're lying.  It's too awkward to have a policy on it (What's black? 1/4? 1/8?) and they get to report you as a minority if you report yourself as one, so they don't really care to know.  There is no way for them to tactfully, or even effectively verify race, so they don't do it.

I read the same passage in Ivey's book and I think we diverge on what is considered "proving". I maintain that nothing has to be proven. Neither does the reason for your funding being unavailable have to be stated. While I understand they do not ask for proof due to the very murky water that is race, I can also imagine enough questions by profs, other students, a pissy woman in financial aid would be enough for it to be called into question, just not being expressed to the student.

And what happens when you're asked to represent your program at minority days or fairs? Or asked to mentor other incoming minorities? Or asked how your member of an ethnic group affected your outlook on life and the law?

It seems to me there would be far too many opportunities that would demand one go into concoting an outright lie, one more verifiable and eventually so not worth it. It's not checking the box, it's the ongoing maintanence of the lie that could prove to be the problem. Not to mention the karma. Wouldn't want it to be me.

[wellpreserved]

I guess I just do not understand how difficult it would be for the Bar Association to compare your college application to your law school application.  If you were white in college but hispanic in law school, you'd have some problems.

They wouldn't have ones college app, they'd have their transcripts, which do not list race.

Many institutions collect race data but do not disseminate it, as they'll tell you, it's collected for statistical reporting only, and in many cases, is not even tied to the applicant.

Again, I just looked at my high school and college transcripts and both list my race and the race of my parents. Does that information not become apart of your official law school record? And is that record not used as the starting point for your BAR app?

I'm really surprised by that.  Neither my high school nor college transcripts list race.  My college transcript has my name, ID number, date of birth, and address, and that's it.

Perhaps I am older than you - pre privacy laws - but it is most definately listed on them. I was a bit surprised too but saw it to be of little concern seeing as how I didn't lie about it. I'm in North CArolina if that makes a difference. Although I thought in the 70s and 80s it was standard to record such information as most states were legally mandated to maintain a racially diverse public school system. How else would they prove they were abiding by the law if race weren't being tracked? How would bussing have worked?

[Matthew]

I guess I just do not understand how difficult it would be for the Bar Association to compare your college application to your law school application.  If you were white in college but hispanic in law school, you'd have some problems.

They wouldn't have ones college app, they'd have their transcripts, which do not list race.

Many institutions collect race data but do not disseminate it, as they'll tell you, it's collected for statistical reporting only, and in many cases, is not even tied to the applicant.

At least in the state I am in, our Bar asks for every college I've ever attended.  Given that it took them 14 months to complete their initial review of my application, I do not think it is even remotely out of the question that they have a copy of my college application. 

I just looked at my college's application and it doesn't even ask for race so I guess they have no official record to print.