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Author Topic: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?  (Read 28245 times)

wellpreserved

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #60 on: August 05, 2007, 10:37:44 PM »
Interesting comments here.

All I know is I do not know of too many white people who would willingly trade URM status for the privledge of being white in America. I mean if someone IS willing and knows of a way to do the switch (and I get to keep my bootie and love of soul food) I'd be interested in discussing a trade. If being a URMs have it so good and so many white people are getting the shaft why don't I see more white people self-identifying as something other than white? I've never heard of it happening. Granted, I've taken no scientific poll. If you guys know of someone or some kind of research on the matter I'd be interested.
I tested between 151 and 162. I hoped for the high end and ended up in the middle. Still, not a bad plan overall, I think.

LSAT: 156 (not taking it again and you can't make me)
GPA: 3.4ish. Still a semester to go
URM, non-trad, 12 yrs work exp, published
Looking for low debt and high aid

sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #61 on: August 05, 2007, 10:59:35 PM »
What else could a white person self identify as?  I didn't check any box.
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill

wellpreserved

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2007, 12:05:14 AM »
Interesting comments here.

All I know is I do not know of too many white people who would willingly trade URM status for the privledge of being white in America. I mean if someone IS willing and knows of a way to do the switch (and I get to keep my bootie and love of soul food) I'd be interested in discussing a trade. If being a URMs have it so good and so many white people are getting the shaft why don't I see more white people self-identifying as something other than white? I've never heard of it happening. Granted, I've taken no scientific poll. If you guys know of someone or some kind of research on the matter I'd be interested.

I see this as silly logic.  I don't think many white people are saying that because of AA, URMs have it so good. However, it reminded me of a Chris Rock bit...

"There's not a single white person in the audience tonight who would trade places with me. And I'm rich!"

My point exactly. This whole conversation is always rooted in silly logic to me. How minorities recieve both preferential treatment AND racism is dead is always a funny bit of sociology. The OP's original assertion is that the benefits of being considered a URM outweighed the potentially devestating consequences of lying about being a URM. That's what's silly. And pretty funny. Like it's that good to be one. *shrug*

I don't really care. I divested myself of such craziness years ago.

and it's a TOTAL CR rip-off! LOL  That's one of the best lines ever delivered.
I tested between 151 and 162. I hoped for the high end and ended up in the middle. Still, not a bad plan overall, I think.

LSAT: 156 (not taking it again and you can't make me)
GPA: 3.4ish. Still a semester to go
URM, non-trad, 12 yrs work exp, published
Looking for low debt and high aid

ilsox7

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2007, 12:35:02 AM »

 The OP's original assertion is that the benefits of being considered a URM outweighed the potentially devestating consequences of lying about being a URM. That's what's silly. And pretty funny. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How is that silly/funny?  You are telling me that checking a box saying that you are a URM isn't worth it - when that leads thousands of dollars in scholarships and admittance into schools for which you have no chance of getting accepted to otherwise?  How is it not worth it to save hundreds of thousands of dollars and/or get accepted to higher ranked schools and have better job oppurtunities?  Especially when noone can really prove what race you are.  I don't know if they(law schools) even care.  I think they just want the ability to report that a certain % of people are URMs.  I doubt they do a physical "skin count" of different minorities to see if the balance is really there. 

State Bar Associations do extensive background checks.  Part of that check is to review your law school application.  There is probably a good chance they'd discover lying about race.

Matthew

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2007, 12:45:45 AM »

 The OP's original assertion is that the benefits of being considered a URM outweighed the potentially devestating consequences of lying about being a URM. That's what's silly. And pretty funny. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How is that silly/funny?  You are telling me that checking a box saying that you are a URM isn't worth it - when that leads thousands of dollars in scholarships and admittance into schools for which you have no chance of getting accepted to otherwise?  How is it not worth it to save hundreds of thousands of dollars and/or get accepted to higher ranked schools and have better job oppurtunities?  Especially when noone can really prove what race you are.  I don't know if they(law schools) even care.  I think they just want the ability to report that a certain % of people are URMs.  I doubt they do a physical "skin count" of different minorities to see if the balance is really there. 

State Bar Associations do extensive background checks.  Part of that check is to review your law school application.  There is probably a good chance they'd discover lying about race.

What could they discover?  It's not like there's something out there that lists the "truth."

URM is self-identified and can really not be proven to be a lie.
Cycle finally finished!

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Deferred: Northwestern
Waitlisted: Penn ($$)
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ilsox7

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #65 on: August 06, 2007, 12:59:39 AM »

 The OP's original assertion is that the benefits of being considered a URM outweighed the potentially devestating consequences of lying about being a URM. That's what's silly. And pretty funny. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How is that silly/funny?  You are telling me that checking a box saying that you are a URM isn't worth it - when that leads thousands of dollars in scholarships and admittance into schools for which you have no chance of getting accepted to otherwise?  How is it not worth it to save hundreds of thousands of dollars and/or get accepted to higher ranked schools and have better job oppurtunities?  Especially when noone can really prove what race you are.  I don't know if they(law schools) even care.  I think they just want the ability to report that a certain % of people are URMs.  I doubt they do a physical "skin count" of different minorities to see if the balance is really there. 

State Bar Associations do extensive background checks.  Part of that check is to review your law school application.  There is probably a good chance they'd discover lying about race.

What could they discover?  It's not like there's something out there that lists the "truth."

URM is self-identified and can really not be proven to be a lie.

Just wait until you go through the background checks some State Bars put applicants through.  It is absolutely insane the type of information they request and dig up.  I would not put it past them at all to ask for solid proof that someone is part of the URM group they claim.  Lying on the law school application is a fairly major offense.  I have several friends who misread the question about being convicted of a crime (school said speeding tickets had to be disclosed) and answered no.  When they realized this during 1L review of applications, the school put them in front of a disciplinary review panel and a letter was put into their law school file, which goes to the State Bar, saying the student was dishonest on their application.

Matthew

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2007, 01:33:51 AM »
You keep talking about these documented issues.  Your race is not documented, and there's no way to provide "solid proof" of URM statuses.  Even the administrators of genetic tests would tell you that such tests a merely probable and do not prove anything.

How would someone prover they are 1/8 black or 1/4 hispanic?  The simple answer is that they can't, and the C&F review would have no way of proving dishonesty.
Cycle finally finished!

170/3.82
Accepted: Michigan($$), UCLA, Virginia($$), Duke($$), Georgetown, Vanderbilt($$$), Notre Dame($$$), William & Mary($$$)
Deferred: Northwestern
Waitlisted: Penn ($$)
Rejected: Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Chicago

ilsox7

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2007, 01:38:56 AM »
You keep talking about these documented issues.  Your race is not documented, and there's no way to provide "solid proof" of URM statuses.  Even the administrators of genetic tests would tell you that such tests a merely probable and do not prove anything.

How would someone prover they are 1/8 black or 1/4 hispanic?  The simple answer is that they can't, and the C&F review would have no way of proving dishonesty.

They can dig up (or make you dig up) other applications you've filled out in the past.  For instance, what did you put on your college application?  If you put white on the college application and now all of a sudden are claiming to be hispanic, there could be an issue. 

Seventeen

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2007, 01:40:24 AM »
I think, if you can't enter the legal profession ethically, how do you expect to practice ethically?

If you are white, you're white. I cannot imagine wondering my entire life if the only reason I got Xscholarship or got into Xschool was because I made a blatant LIE on my applications. Talk about the constant elephant in the room.

Horribly, I know of someone who falsly claimed URM, got into great schools w/ scholarships likely above where they should have gone, and even felt the need to dye their hair for the Admitted Student Weekends to cover their steps.

Isn't the theory... if you don't want to be caught in a lie, always tell the truth?

I think, if you feel you ARE a URM, and you can live with yourself every day, therefore not ever considering that it was a bad choice or misrepresentation, by all means... list URM. If you are not 100% sure you are being truthful, stay safe and claim only what you are.

Hmph.... ethics.
"We're adults. When did that happen, and how do we make it stop?" ~Grey's Anatomy

wellpreserved

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #69 on: August 06, 2007, 01:41:50 AM »
You keep talking about these documented issues.  Your race is not documented, and there's no way to provide "solid proof" of URM statuses.  Even the administrators of genetic tests would tell you that such tests a merely probable and do not prove anything.

How would someone prover they are 1/8 black or 1/4 hispanic?  The simple answer is that they can't, and the C&F review would have no way of proving dishonesty.

I'll bite only because I cannot sleep.

They wouldn't have to prove your genetic make-up to prove you were dishonest. They could ask for a record of how you have self-identified before law school. They could ask for specific reasons why you identify with a particular racial group. Hell, they could ask you to make a pot of boiled pigs feet if they wanted to. The point is no state BAR owes you your license so the burden of proof rests not with them but with you - the one seriously in debt for a law degree that is pretty useless if they find you of contemptable character, questionable morality or manipulative behavior bordering on criminal (accepting money under false pretenses) in any way, shape, form or fashion.

You would be the one who would have to provide proof to the contrary. If you think a few thousand bucks is worth that then more power to you.
I tested between 151 and 162. I hoped for the high end and ended up in the middle. Still, not a bad plan overall, I think.

LSAT: 156 (not taking it again and you can't make me)
GPA: 3.4ish. Still a semester to go
URM, non-trad, 12 yrs work exp, published
Looking for low debt and high aid