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Author Topic: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?  (Read 29794 times)

saradsun

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2007, 03:53:09 PM »


My daughter (in my profile pic) is half-black, half-white.  Her mother (my wife) and I both have Bachelor's Degrees.  I will have a J.D. by the time she is four.  My wife will have a Master's by the time she is three.  My daughter should not benefit from AA in any way.  My wife and I do joke from time to time about sending her to a Private school up until she is in high school, and then send her to an inner city school, all in effort to get a higher class rank.  (We are kidding.....somewhat)
 ;D

With all due respect, you've been raising a biracial child for 4 years. You have NO idea what racism they may encounter in the next 14 years which may impact their ability to fairly compete in the educational world.

I've been raising biracial children for 16 years now. And they identify as black, because here in rural nebraska they sure as hell aren't white. For many years I encouraged them to identify as biracial. But to them, its very clear they aren't white, and therefore MUST be black.

So just consider, your opinions on your child's status may very well change in the next several years, especially as they may very well self-identify differently than you expect.

sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2007, 04:22:55 PM »


My daughter (in my profile pic) is half-black, half-white.  Her mother (my wife) and I both have Bachelor's Degrees.  I will have a J.D. by the time she is four.  My wife will have a Master's by the time she is three.  My daughter should not benefit from AA in any way.  My wife and I do joke from time to time about sending her to a Private school up until she is in high school, and then send her to an inner city school, all in effort to get a higher class rank.  (We are kidding.....somewhat)
 ;D

With all due respect, you've been raising a biracial child for 4 years. You have NO idea what racism they may encounter in the next 14 years which may impact their ability to fairly compete in the educational world.

I've been raising biracial children for 16 years now. And they identify as black, because here in rural nebraska they sure as hell aren't white. For many years I encouraged them to identify as biracial. But to them, its very clear they aren't white, and therefore MUST be black.

So just consider, your opinions on your child's status may very well change in the next several years, especially as they may very well self-identify differently than you expect.

No, I've only been raising a bi-racial child for 1 year.  My opinions might very well change.  What I think is more likely to change in 14 years, is the box she needs to check.  I think it is going to be less of an issue 14 years from now, and with my being in Houston, it is quite likely that even if she were white, she would be a minority (in Houston.)

It's not her skin color that is going to give her an advantage, it is the education level of her parents (and my good looks.)  So what she encounters racism?  I've encountered it too.  It is something that you do not tolerate, and do not teach, but it does occur.  I cannot prevent it.  I can only teach her how to respond to it.  The same as when my wife and I go out to eat and people stare at us.  So what?  The same as when I am at school and people make comments to me saying that I should go to a "white" school and leave my "black" school.  The same as when I am walking through the projects on my way to school and I get a gun put to my head and rocks thrown at me (two different instances, not simultaneously) for some reason (I'm guessing because I am white, though I may be wrong.)  The same as when I lived in Japan, and some of the kids told me essentially to "go back to America".

My point is....so what?  It happens, and you deal with it.  Do I wish I could have killed the guy who pulled the gun on me?  Damn right!  Do I wish I could have killed the 4 teenagers that were throwing rocks at me?  Damn right!  But I knew that I couldn't afford a lawyer (my father is not a criminal lawyer), and that I could not afford to get arrested, and lose a future legal career over some moron who is going to do nothing with his life.

But at this point, I still hold to my belief that AA shouldn't benefit the "have's", but the "have-not's."

By the way, should "have's" and "have-not's" contain an apostrophe?
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill

sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2007, 04:36:59 PM »
Thanks!  :D ;D

I was a science major, often we just make words up, so you have to excuse my inquiries into grammatical rules.
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill

saradsun

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2007, 04:43:55 PM »
But at this point, I still hold to my belief that AA shouldn't benefit the "have's", but the "have-not's."



While I don't disagree in general with this, I'm not sure how you can fairly differentiate between these. In some cases its easy. Rich URM at private school vs poor URM at public failing school. However, there are going to be many cases that fall in between. So skin color or self-identity of URM status becomes the de facto standard simply because its too difficult or impossible to fairly determine other factors that might more clearly represent the desired URM.

Sorry I drew incorrect conclusions as to the time you've spent parenting a biracial child.

apostrophes indicate possessive or contractions and haves and have-nots are neither. So I'd say, no apostrophes (though I misuse apostrophes and ellipses all the time myself).

sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2007, 04:53:39 PM »
But how long do you think people should benefit from AA?  Undergrad admissions?  Law School admissions?  First job?  Subsequent jobs?  Social Security?  Ok....the last one was a joke...I don't think any of us are going to get SS.

They do sort of have a way for people to claim AA on apps...the application addendums.  Perhaps everyone that wants to receive benefit from AA should have to write an addendum and their subsequent reasoning.  They could limit the number of words of the addendum for time constraint purposes, and if the reasoning is solely based on race they could disregard it.  What do you guys (and girls) think?
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill

sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2007, 04:58:47 PM »
apostrophize- an awesome word!

What about apostrophotize?
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill

queencruella

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2007, 05:16:33 PM »
Thanks!  :D ;D

I was a science major, often we just make words up, so you have to excuse my inquiries into grammatical rules.

I'm not even sure if my way is right.  Usually people apostrophize (history majors can make up words too) plural acronyms.  For example, I'm an RA, and most people say RA's, but I say RAs.  And for grades, I say As, Bs, Cs, etc.  Not A's, B's, C's.

The apostrophe should stick to possessives and contractions unless you're pluralizing a single letter- then you should use an apostrophe.

saradsun

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2007, 08:24:14 PM »
AA is not solely intended to benefit the specific student who is accepted. You can argue that the more URM minorities that end up being doctors/lawyers/other professionals, the better the prospects for URM in the future.

If you grow up in a black neighborhood and the only people you see in professional positions are all white, it becomes hard to pictures yourself in that profession in a similar way to the doll study that took place in the 40's and 50's and was repeated a few years ago. Children grow up absorbing the cultural messages about race and that affects how they see themselves and others of their race. So when that URM minority goes to law school or medical school he or she not only benefits personally from AA, they are now "repaying" it by showing others of their URM that it can, and is, done.

So AA isn't just about Black Student A who gets into a good uni, just like a White Student B, and somehow that supposedly wipes clean all the cultural baggage of race? I don't think so.

sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2007, 09:41:00 PM »
Well, I think a reasonable argument could be made suggesting that Student B was likely to have a lower GPA than some of his classmates at a Duke, or a Harvard, just because of the talent level of some of his classmates.  That being said, at some point, Student B's credentials should speak for themselves, and not carry the extra benefits of AA.  Just graduating for a Duke or Harvard carries great benefits in itself.

The private schools are not required to admit certain numbers of minority students, so perhaps they provide weak examples.

But in response to saradsun, I don't think the goal of AA is to relieve the cultural baggage of race.  In fact, AA is not entirely a race-based program.  Women often benefit from AA, notwithstanding race.

Where else in life do programs like this exist (serious question, not rhetorical)?  I don't think I can get into the NFL by being a little bit slower than other receivers, based on a lack of white receivers on a certain team (assuming there was a lack of white receivers.)  Sports is a great example of how the BEST candidates get the jobs, regardless of race.  They do discriminate on the basis of age in many sports, however (another topic in itself.)

But let's add or delete substance from my idea that admissions switch to a style where they consider extenuating circumstances solely on an optional addendum.  What if they got rid of the SAT's and started having interviews?  Seems like that might even the playing fields.  What do you think? 
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill

sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2007, 10:12:16 PM »
If you go to Boston College, then he was originally referring to Baylor University.  :P
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill