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Author Topic: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?  (Read 28470 times)

Matthew

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #90 on: August 06, 2007, 02:32:57 AM »
Well, then you just need to hope that any of your former bosses or references don't identify you as a non-URM when contacted by the State Bar.  I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for the rest of my life though if I got away with it.

Well, I don't need to worry about it, because I'm not going to lie about my race.  This is a strictly theoretical discussion for me.
Cycle finally finished!

170/3.82
Accepted: Michigan($$), UCLA, Virginia($$), Duke($$), Georgetown, Vanderbilt($$$), Notre Dame($$$), William & Mary($$$)
Deferred: Northwestern
Waitlisted: Penn ($$)
Rejected: Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Chicago

ilsox7

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #91 on: August 06, 2007, 02:36:02 AM »
Well, then you just need to hope that any of your former bosses or references don't identify you as a non-URM when contacted by the State Bar.  I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for the rest of my life though if I got away with it.

Well, I don't need to worry about it, because I'm not going to lie about my race.  This is a strictly theoretical discussion for me.

That's good then.  I still contend that, while maybe not likely, it is certainly within the realm of realistic possibility that a person will get caught. 

wellpreserved

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #92 on: August 06, 2007, 02:38:52 AM »
Neither does the reason for your funding being unavailable have to be stated. While I understand they do not ask for proof due to the very murky water that is race, I can also imagine enough questions by profs, other students, a pissy woman in financial aid would be enough for it to be called into question, just not being expressed to the student.

And what happens when you're asked to represent your program at minority days or fairs? Or asked to mentor other incoming minorities? Or asked how your member of an ethnic group affected your outlook on life and the law?

It seems to me there would be far too many opportunities that would demand one go into concoting an outright lie, one more verifiable and eventually so not worth it. It's not checking the box, it's the ongoing maintanence of the lie that could prove to be the problem. Not to mention the karma. Wouldn't want it to be me.


I don't think the majority of these people would know your race to begin with?

Do you really think a class roster says "John Smith...Black"?

And I also think you underestimate the ability of someone who'd lie on about their race to just say no to showing students around and stuff based on their race.

Well, hey, you give it a shot! I'd love to see the results. I think you may underestimate how seriously some people view such things and the amount of energy it takes to navigate those waters. You may also underestimate how deeply personal race is for people and to what lengths they'll go to sniff out a poseur. I've got anctedotal evidence for days about those who tried to pass in the other direction and myriad of systems that sought to undermine them doing so. I can't imagine it wouldn't work that way in reverse. Want to pass yourself off to the black or hispanic financial aid officer who has actually been a struggling URM or to the native american admissions director? Let me tell you, there are people who would make it their personal business to out you. And again no one has to prove anything. They need only cast doubt. And I'm willing to be money on someone doing just that. That's how race works underneath the surface in america.

It just seems that law school is challenging enough without simultaneously perpetuating a lie that could undermine your career. You spoke of being risk averse earlier. I think one would have to be more of a masochist or outright narcissist to go through with such a thing. They either want to ruin their lives or prove they can outsmart a system.

But, again, I totally reccommend it for some LSDer. In fact I encourage it and demand that they post frequently about it.
I tested between 151 and 162. I hoped for the high end and ended up in the middle. Still, not a bad plan overall, I think.

LSAT: 156 (not taking it again and you can't make me)
GPA: 3.4ish. Still a semester to go
URM, non-trad, 12 yrs work exp, published
Looking for low debt and high aid

Matthew

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2007, 02:45:27 AM »
Well, then you just need to hope that any of your former bosses or references don't identify you as a non-URM when contacted by the State Bar.  I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for the rest of my life though if I got away with it.

Well, I don't need to worry about it, because I'm not going to lie about my race.  This is a strictly theoretical discussion for me.

That's good then.  I still contend that, while maybe not likely, it is certainly within the realm of realistic possibility that a person will get caught. 

And I don't see it as a possibility, because I don't see there being a way for someone to get caught.  You can't prove or disprove race.

I also think if people did get caught, Ivey would know something about it.

But neither of us can really prove our theories either.
Cycle finally finished!

170/3.82
Accepted: Michigan($$), UCLA, Virginia($$), Duke($$), Georgetown, Vanderbilt($$$), Notre Dame($$$), William & Mary($$$)
Deferred: Northwestern
Waitlisted: Penn ($$)
Rejected: Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Chicago

ilsox7

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #94 on: August 06, 2007, 02:48:07 AM »
Well, then you just need to hope that any of your former bosses or references don't identify you as a non-URM when contacted by the State Bar.  I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for the rest of my life though if I got away with it.

Well, I don't need to worry about it, because I'm not going to lie about my race.  This is a strictly theoretical discussion for me.

That's good then.  I still contend that, while maybe not likely, it is certainly within the realm of realistic possibility that a person will get caught. 

And I don't see it as a possibility, because I don't see there being a way for someone to get caught.  You can't prove or disprove race.

I also think if people did get caught, Ivey would know something about it.

But neither of us can really prove our theories either.

If you've previously identified yourself as one race, but change it on your law school application, that's pretty damning evidence. 

MahlerGrooves

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2007, 10:10:15 AM »
Anna Ivey also says that admissions officers frequent internet message boards and look for posts from their applicants...SO...it stands to reason that getting caught lying becomes easier if one discusses lying on an internet board.

sc3pt0r

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2007, 10:33:22 AM »
Ya, I'm sure that's true if they put their name, SS#, DOB, and the name of the school that they will be attending on the board.  But, who does that?  ???
"I am prepared to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Winston Churchill

ilsox7

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #97 on: August 06, 2007, 10:40:53 AM »
Ya, I'm sure that's true if they put their name, SS#, DOB, and the name of the school that they will be attending on the board.  But, who does that?  ???

That's not needed at all.  When I applied a few years ago, people posted enough identifying information to be outted.  In fact, at least one person was contacted by some of their schools due to posts on this board.

wellpreserved

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Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #98 on: August 06, 2007, 10:56:03 AM »
Ya, I'm sure that's true if they put their name, SS#, DOB, and the name of the school that they will be attending on the board.  But, who does that?  ???

That's not needed at all.  When I applied a few years ago, people posted enough identifying information to be outted.  In fact, at least one person was contacted by some of their schools due to posts on this board.

These folks are funny! LOL

We live in the age of big brother where 15 year olds can find your social online in a matter of minutes and people think no one could use that information in their law school or BAR process?

I guess that's the paranoia that comes with being an actual URM or just reading the newspaper or something.

They can use it and they would use it and they wouldn't be the only one. Disgruntled student peers would use it, an ex-girlfriend you pissed off would get wind of your grand scheme and out you or an aspiring investigative reporter in undergrad would make you his senior thesis or the lady in the cafeteria would think something ain't right and it would become a campus rumor or, or, or.

Risky, risky, risky for people who are spending ridiculous amounts of money to practice, um, what is that thing called againg? Oh, yeah, the LAW!

You don't get to be a skeevy lawyer until you actually become a lawyer.

I tested between 151 and 162. I hoped for the high end and ended up in the middle. Still, not a bad plan overall, I think.

LSAT: 156 (not taking it again and you can't make me)
GPA: 3.4ish. Still a semester to go
URM, non-trad, 12 yrs work exp, published
Looking for low debt and high aid

Re: Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?
« Reply #99 on: August 06, 2007, 11:35:39 AM »
What about the following hypothetical situation: A white person checks the african american box on his or her application in order to get admitted a T14 school.  After the school of his/her choice has admitted the student, the student informs the school that they were looking over their on-line copy of the submitted application, and noticed that they checked the wrong box for race.  Would the school dare withdraw the offer of admission?