Possible Consquences about lying that you are a URM?

[ilsox7]

I guess I just do not understand how difficult it would be for the Bar Association to compare your college application to your law school application.  If you were white in college but hispanic in law school, you'd have some problems.

They wouldn't have ones college app, they'd have their transcripts, which do not list race.

Many institutions collect race data but do not disseminate it, as they'll tell you, it's collected for statistical reporting only, and in many cases, is not even tied to the applicant.

At least in the state I am in, our Bar asks for every college I've ever attended.  Given that it took them 14 months to complete their initial review of my application, I do not think it is even remotely out of the question that they have a copy of my college application. 

I just looked at my college's application and it doesn't even ask for race so I guess they have no official record to print.

Well, then you just need to hope that any of your former bosses or references don't identify you as a non-URM when contacted by the State Bar.  I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for the rest of my life though if I got away with it.

[Matthew]

Neither does the reason for your funding being unavailable have to be stated. While I understand they do not ask for proof due to the very murky water that is race, I can also imagine enough questions by profs, other students, a pissy woman in financial aid would be enough for it to be called into question, just not being expressed to the student.

And what happens when you're asked to represent your program at minority days or fairs? Or asked to mentor other incoming minorities? Or asked how your member of an ethnic group affected your outlook on life and the law?

It seems to me there would be far too many opportunities that would demand one go into concoting an outright lie, one more verifiable and eventually so not worth it. It's not checking the box, it's the ongoing maintanence of the lie that could prove to be the problem. Not to mention the karma. Wouldn't want it to be me.

I don't think the majority of these people would know your race to begin with?

Do you really think a class roster says "John Smith...Black"?

And I also think you underestimate the ability of someone who'd lie on about their race to just say no to showing students around and stuff based on their race.

[Matthew]

Well, then you just need to hope that any of your former bosses or references don't identify you as a non-URM when contacted by the State Bar.  I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for the rest of my life though if I got away with it.

Well, I don't need to worry about it, because I'm not going to lie about my race.  This is a strictly theoretical discussion for me.

[ilsox7]

Well, then you just need to hope that any of your former bosses or references don't identify you as a non-URM when contacted by the State Bar.  I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for the rest of my life though if I got away with it.

Well, I don't need to worry about it, because I'm not going to lie about my race.  This is a strictly theoretical discussion for me.

That's good then.  I still contend that, while maybe not likely, it is certainly within the realm of realistic possibility that a person will get caught. 

[wellpreserved]

Neither does the reason for your funding being unavailable have to be stated. While I understand they do not ask for proof due to the very murky water that is race, I can also imagine enough questions by profs, other students, a pissy woman in financial aid would be enough for it to be called into question, just not being expressed to the student.

And what happens when you're asked to represent your program at minority days or fairs? Or asked to mentor other incoming minorities? Or asked how your member of an ethnic group affected your outlook on life and the law?

It seems to me there would be far too many opportunities that would demand one go into concoting an outright lie, one more verifiable and eventually so not worth it. It's not checking the box, it's the ongoing maintanence of the lie that could prove to be the problem. Not to mention the karma. Wouldn't want it to be me.

I don't think the majority of these people would know your race to begin with?

Do you really think a class roster says "John Smith...Black"?

And I also think you underestimate the ability of someone who'd lie on about their race to just say no to showing students around and stuff based on their race.

Well, hey, you give it a shot! I'd love to see the results. I think you may underestimate how seriously some people view such things and the amount of energy it takes to navigate those waters. You may also underestimate how deeply personal race is for people and to what lengths they'll go to sniff out a poseur. I've got anctedotal evidence for days about those who tried to pass in the other direction and myriad of systems that sought to undermine them doing so. I can't imagine it wouldn't work that way in reverse. Want to pass yourself off to the black or hispanic financial aid officer who has actually been a struggling URM or to the native american admissions director? Let me tell you, there are people who would make it their personal business to out you. And again no one has to prove anything. They need only cast doubt. And I'm willing to be money on someone doing just that. That's how race works underneath the surface in america.

It just seems that law school is challenging enough without simultaneously perpetuating a lie that could undermine your career. You spoke of being risk averse earlier. I think one would have to be more of a masochist or outright narcissist to go through with such a thing. They either want to ruin their lives or prove they can outsmart a system.

But, again, I totally reccommend it for some LSDer. In fact I encourage it and demand that they post frequently about it.

[Matthew]

Well, then you just need to hope that any of your former bosses or references don't identify you as a non-URM when contacted by the State Bar.  I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for the rest of my life though if I got away with it.

Well, I don't need to worry about it, because I'm not going to lie about my race.  This is a strictly theoretical discussion for me.

That's good then.  I still contend that, while maybe not likely, it is certainly within the realm of realistic possibility that a person will get caught. 

And I don't see it as a possibility, because I don't see there being a way for someone to get caught.  You can't prove or disprove race.

I also think if people did get caught, Ivey would know something about it.

But neither of us can really prove our theories either.

[ilsox7]

Well, then you just need to hope that any of your former bosses or references don't identify you as a non-URM when contacted by the State Bar.  I wouldn't want that hanging over my head for the rest of my life though if I got away with it.

Well, I don't need to worry about it, because I'm not going to lie about my race.  This is a strictly theoretical discussion for me.

That's good then.  I still contend that, while maybe not likely, it is certainly within the realm of realistic possibility that a person will get caught. 

And I don't see it as a possibility, because I don't see there being a way for someone to get caught.  You can't prove or disprove race.

I also think if people did get caught, Ivey would know something about it.

But neither of us can really prove our theories either.

If you've previously identified yourself as one race, but change it on your law school application, that's pretty damning evidence. 

[MahlerGrooves]

Anna Ivey also says that admissions officers frequent internet message boards and look for posts from their applicants...SO...it stands to reason that getting caught lying becomes easier if one discusses lying on an internet board.

[sc3pt0r]

Ya, I'm sure that's true if they put their name, SS#, DOB, and the name of the school that they will be attending on the board.  But, who does that? 

[ilsox7]

Ya, I'm sure that's true if they put their name, SS#, DOB, and the name of the school that they will be attending on the board.  But, who does that? 

That's not needed at all.  When I applied a few years ago, people posted enough identifying information to be outted.  In fact, at least one person was contacted by some of their schools due to posts on this board.