I don't even know what to say to the argument that gays can marry members of the opposite sex. It's so intellectually dishonest that I'm sort of speechless. Straight people can marry people they are sexually attracted to. That's the underlying motivation in this day and age for getting married, generally speaking. Most straight people I know try to avoid marrying people to whom they are not, have never been, and will never be sexually attracted, because that doesn't make for a good marriage by pretty much anyone's standards. Gay people cannot marry people to whom they are sexually attracted. That's inequality.
If we separate the state action from the "institution of marriage" which is what right-wingers get all het up (no pun intended) about, then there's no argument that "marriage is historically meant to be this that and the other." The state should perform civil unions (with the normal benefits of civil marriage) for everyone.
And I don't think that the state can really justify performing marriages for the children. Otherwise, why would they so willingly perform unions that won't result in offspring, like third marriages in the old folks' home? Marriage has gone beyond silly little economic calculations, clearly, and attempting to "find a reason" to let gays marry is clearly just hemming and hawing, out of what motivation I can only assume is homophobia.
So, assuming, just to give dude the strongest case possible, that the rate of HIV infection among gay men is much higher than it is in the general hetero population, and that there was a time in the seventies when risky, anonymous sex was considered acceptable and the norm among certain communities of gay men, and that there is a segment of the population of gay men who may still practice anonymous, risky sex today, do you guys still think it's fair or right to call homosexuality in general a "deathstyle"? Do you really think that will lead to more understanding about the risks of certain types of sexual behavior, and won't contribute to homophobia, and hatred and misunderstanding of gay people who are perfectly responsible about their sexual behavior? Do you think that was a reasonable or helpful word for him to use?
And if not, why all the quibbling about whether or not there is a higher rate of infection among gay men?
And there's a big assumption in there that gay bars = risky sex. People of all sexual orientations do meet people at bars just to hook up, but people also go to bars looking for people to actually date, or to just hang out and have some drinks. I think it's an unfair judgment, and seems based on the stereotype that homosexual = promiscuous, period. Are straight people who pick people up at bars for one-night stands engaging in a deathstyle?
Quote from: goaliechica on September 04, 2007, 10:57:01 AMAnd there's a big assumption in there that gay bars = risky sex. People of all sexual orientations do meet people at bars just to hook up, but people also go to bars looking for people to actually date, or to just hang out and have some drinks. I think it's an unfair judgment, and seems based on the stereotype that homosexual = promiscuous, period. Are straight people who pick people up at bars for one-night stands engaging in a deathstyle?Wait, straight people hook up at bars? Straight people are promiscuous?::shocked::
A few posts later, seventhson took exception to Sowell's characterization of the "homosexual lifestyle" as a "deathstyle," assuming that "homosexual lifestyle" referred to practicing homosexual sex in general, and promiscuous sex in particular. S/he attempted to refute the characterization of homosexual sex as a "deathstyle" by providing statistics showing that the majority of AIDS cases were amongst heterosexuals. However, since the straight population is much larger than the gay one, these statistics don't have as much bearing on her argument as statistics comparing the infection rates amongst gays to the infection rates amongst non-gays.
This is true. I learned about the birds and the bees from David the Gnome.
But that's not my question. My question is, for those of you supporting Sowell, whether you think that was a productive or reasonable way for him to phrase the issue, or if you really think that because he says after the fact that he was referring to some specific subset of the gay community, it's unreasonable for people to interpret his words as bashing anyone who is gay. To call something "the homosexual lifestyle" and then say that it doesn't actually apply to all or most homosexuals doesn't make much sense.
Wanna hear a scary story?Some of the people here will become policy makers.