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Author Topic: Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!  (Read 2188 times)

TrollPatrol

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Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!
« on: July 06, 2007, 07:12:52 PM »
Donít do it. Donít buy into all the hype by 0Lís. Then truth is if you go a T14 or T1 school you will have to get a big law job to pay off all that debt. Your life will be ruined from that point on. There is almost an 80% chance you wonít be able to hold that job more than five years, your odds of making partner are in the single digits, there is a 26% chance you will be depressed and a 20% chance you will become an alcoholic.

Save yourselves. Trust me, I know what is best for YOU because I read stuff on the net and parrot it back as truth. But even if you donít believe me, you must believe the INETRNET. The INTERNET DOES NOT LIE. See the statistics below, statistics prove everything. You can try to deny it and think it wonít happen to you, BUT THE INTERNETS DOES NOT LIE. This is your life you go T14/T1:


ďAccording to NALP, the attrition rate for associates last year in private law firms was 78 percent for those who had worked at firms for about five years, compared with 60 percent in 2000. The average annual attrition rate for all associates last year was 19 percent, compared with 16 percent in 2000.Ē
http://www.law.com/jsp/llf/PubArticleLLF.jsp?id=1155559186650

ďWhile 3 percent to 9 percent of the population at any given time may experience depression, a quality-of-life survey conducted by the North Carolina Bar Association in 1991 reported that almost 26 percent of the bar's members exhibited symptoms of clinical depression. Almost 12 percent of them said they contemplated suicide at least once each month.
Studies in both Washington and Arizona show that lawyers suffer from a higher rate of alcoholism than the general population. While approximately 10 percent of the population suffers from alcoholism, the number jumps to almost 20 percent in the legal profession, or one in five lawyers.Ē

http://www.abanet.org/barserv/22-6dev.html


LOOK: A BIG LAW LAWYER SAYS BIG LAW SUCKS IN AN ANONYMOUS COMMENT TO A BLOG ON THE WSJ! THIS MUST BE TRUE:

ďI was an associate at a pretty good firm, doing litigation. The day to day practice of law was pretty interesting and should have been low stressĖ just think the issues through, do what you need to do, and get out by 9pm. The stress came from partners who HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE DOING and compensated for it by stressing everyone out and concentrating on form (appeasing clients) over substance (solid legal product). It probably something to do with justifying their obscene partnership draws. I hope that more young associates notice this and change the way big firm law is practiced in the future. In the mean time, competent lawyers are leaving large firms in droves to pursue a more productive and less stressful legal career (which, by the way, is driving salaries up at the big firms). Makes me think that those depressed lawyers with fat paychecks at the big firms are brining it on themselves, and giving us all a bad name in the process. ď
Comment by big firm, big problems - June 27, 2007 at 12:42 pm

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/06/27/are-lawyers-emotional-wrecks/

ďAs big law firms struggle to retain women lawyers and boost them into leadership roles, theyíre losing many to contract positions, smaller firms, in-house jobs, government posts and legal aid careers that women lawyers say give them more control over their work and personal lives,Ē

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/06/13/big-law-losing-women-lawyers-to-other-jobs?mod=sphere_ts


The only way you have any chance of not ending up like every other T14/T1 lawyer; unemployed after five years or less, miserable, bankrupt, alcoholic, depressed and spending the rest of your life blaming your law school for all your woes is to go to T2/T3/T4 schools on a scholarship! Iím only trying to help and be honest with you.

You MUST go to a T2 or worse or your life is going to suck. You canít deny all the proof I posted. But the internet says itís true, so donít even bother trying to debate with me because I know the TRUTH you wonít accept. If you even try I wonít listen to your argument Iíll just retort that you probably go to a T1 school so youíre just trying defend your delusions. I just want to help you see the light; Iím like that, I care about others more than me getting off a waitlist
The Bitter Troll.  What sets these trolls apart from other
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labeled as trolls.  Angry, frustrated, and resentful the BT will wage a campaign of indignant complaints and personal attacks against any who disagree with their view.

madacurtis

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Re: Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2007, 07:19:19 PM »
Thanks for the post, seriously.  I hope to get into a t14 score and be miserable for 5 or so years (you know, take a single digit stab at $500,000+++ partnership). Hey, but If I dont make it, maybe I can rationalize what you have and be happy anyway.  I say that not to be scarcastic either.   

Quail!

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Re: Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2007, 07:20:05 PM »
This post will undoubtedly be underappreciated
2

GoldenAfro

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Re: Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2007, 07:49:25 PM »
Oh I appreciate it.  :D
I'm taking my freedom... Pulling it off the shelf... Putting it on my chain... Wearing it 'round my neck... I'm taking my freedom... Putting it in my car... Wherever I choose to go... It will take me far

wiimote

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Re: Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 08:21:57 PM »
Tier 2 with full scholarship (and either stipend or living at home to cover housing/food/books) isn't bad. Too bad most tier 2 students are paying full tuition and living on their own, with borrowed money.

OP is right that biglaw has a very rough curve. I think only top 10% make partner, although the reward is generally far more than $500,000; it's in the millions. Still, your chances of making partner in biglaw are about the same as getting a biglaw job out of a tier 2 - 10%. However, if you live frugally you can pay off your loans with just two years' worth of biglaw salaries.

The problem with this thread, however, is that you present a rich man's problem. People with the option of a T2 with loaded scholarship or T14 aren't really in need of assistance.

attic4fp

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Re: Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2007, 08:27:14 PM »
Appreciated.

TrollPatrol

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Re: Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2007, 08:40:11 PM »
Tier 2 with full scholarship (and either stipend or living at home to cover housing/food/books) isn't bad. Too bad most tier 2 students are paying full tuition, with borrowed money.

OP is right that biglaw has a very rough curve. I think only top 10% make partner, although the reward is generally far more than $500,000; it's in the millions. Still, your chances of making partner in biglaw are about the same as getting a biglaw job out of a tier 2 - 10%. However, if you live frugally you can pay off your loans with just two years' worth of biglaw salaries.

The problem with this thread, however, is that you present a rich man's problem. People with the option of a T2 with loaded scholarship or T14 aren't really in need of assistance.

Itís far less than 10%, you can only have so many chiefs. 1000 lawyers at a typical big firm, with 10% making partner would add 100 new partners a year. You could not sustain that kind of Chief making. Itís closer to 2%.

Plus your odds of making senior associate are around 50%, so by year 3 you will know if your going to make it or not. If not, your big law dreams are over, you become a ďstaff attorneyĒ and youíre locked in for the rest of your time at about the same rate as new associates (while those on track move far past you).

The majority of big law new hires end up here. Itís not in the firms interest to put you on the senior associate track, much less partner track, unless you are either brining in more than you cost, or have proven potential to do so.  Most big law new hires donít. The nature of the job attracts followers, not leaders. If they were of the rainmaking type they would have already left with their self starter sprit.. They arenít, they are not boss material, they follow orders, not give them. Firms need worker bees, not worker bees as partners.

People who have never worked in a big or large law firm donít understand that itís far more a business than it is a law firm. It about shares, profit and maximizing the return for your customers (clients). Those that understand that move up, those that think its about the law become ďstaffĒ. 
The Bitter Troll.  What sets these trolls apart from other
classifications is their behavior after they have been spotted and
labeled as trolls.  Angry, frustrated, and resentful the BT will wage a campaign of indignant complaints and personal attacks against any who disagree with their view.

wiimote

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Re: Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2007, 08:42:37 PM »
Itís far less than 10%, you can only have so many chiefs. 1000 lawyers at a typical big firm, with 10% making partner would add 100 new partners a year. You could not sustain that kind of Chief making. Itís closer to 2%.

I wonder what the real number is. I heard it was like 10%, as in 10% of each class generally made partner. Someone should look it up.

I agree that no one should go into biglaw expecting to make partner. They should live frugally, pay off their loans, and prepare to land on their feet once they leave the firm.


derkaiser

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Re: Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2007, 09:10:29 PM »
Tier 2 with full scholarship (and either stipend or living at home to cover housing/food/books) isn't bad. Too bad most tier 2 students are paying full tuition, with borrowed money.

OP is right that biglaw has a very rough curve. I think only top 10% make partner, although the reward is generally far more than $500,000; it's in the millions. Still, your chances of making partner in biglaw are about the same as getting a biglaw job out of a tier 2 - 10%. However, if you live frugally you can pay off your loans with just two years' worth of biglaw salaries.

The problem with this thread, however, is that you present a rich man's problem. People with the option of a T2 with loaded scholarship or T14 aren't really in need of assistance.

Itís far less than 10%, you can only have so many chiefs. 1000 lawyers at a typical big firm, with 10% making partner would add 100 new partners a year.


Um..wrong.  Most lawyers at big firms don't stay long, but they usually stay longer than one year.  Therefore, a firm would not have to hire anything close to 100 partners a year to for it still to be accurate that 10% of big firm attorneys make partner.

It's an entirely reasonable statistic that 10% of the people that ever start work at hypothetical biglaw firm "Wee, Cheatum, and Howe" eventually end up as partners at that firm at some point.  Some people will leave before promotion to partner; existing partners retire or move on, etc., etc. -- there does not have to be 10% of the entire attorney staff promoted to partner annually for the statistic to still be accurate.

n/a

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Re: Top 14/Tier 1 read this POST!
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2007, 09:14:37 PM »
But Im already an alcoholic.