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Author Topic: Black Folks and Religion  (Read 9923 times)

A.

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Re: Black Folks and Religion
« Reply #70 on: July 04, 2007, 05:49:39 PM »
Why can't it just be that one might (gasp!) be wrong?  Religion isn't going to tumble into the sea.

why can't they both be right depending on who u ask?

Lol they can both be right? (specifically, the genealogy one)

7S

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Re: Black Folks and Religion
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2007, 06:07:20 PM »
Why can't it just be that one might (gasp!) be wrong?  Religion isn't going to tumble into the sea.

why can't they both be right depending on who u ask?

Lol they can both be right? (specifically, the genealogy one)

Can't they? Could it be possible that Luke traced the ancestry of Mary while Matthew traced the ancestry of Jospeh? Or could it be that Matthew wanted to emphasize Jesus' relation to David to which Luke the doctor was less concerned?

I'm not trying to argue theology. I arguing its affect on black people.
It is easy to change the language of oppression without changing the sociopolitical situation of its victims.

7S

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Re: Black Folks and Religion
« Reply #72 on: July 05, 2007, 12:18:10 PM »
Why can't it just be that one might (gasp!) be wrong?  Religion isn't going to tumble into the sea.

why can't they both be right depending on who u ask?

Lol they can both be right? (specifically, the genealogy one)

Can't they? Could it be possible that Luke traced the ancestry of Mary while Matthew traced the ancestry of Jospeh? Or could it be that Matthew wanted to emphasize Jesus' relation to David to which Luke the doctor was less concerned?

No, actually.  The two are almost identical, except for the number of folks listed, as I recall.  And they both, I believe, trace a connection to David.

No they're not. Though, a few of the same names appear...

In a tradtional view of Genisus, our geneology should be able to be traced back to Adam and Eve. So I can imagine how both Joseph and Mary could be traced back to David. Then again it's only a theory.

Additionally, if Jesus was conceived by virgin birth then Joseph's geneology is irrelevant for biological purposes. Obviously, Matthew and Luke knew that so "Geneology" for both could have represented different things.
It is easy to change the language of oppression without changing the sociopolitical situation of its victims.

Paper Chaser

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Re: Black Folks and Religion
« Reply #73 on: July 05, 2007, 01:05:16 PM »
Quote
I've heard this argument before from a lot of the Black Panther-esque types, but it doesn't hold true. Heard of liberation theology?  Yes, religion is one of the ways that slaveowners used to keep slaves docile (you know, along with whips and chains and rape and racism and such.) But at the same time, religion has been used in a way that inspires people to action. It cuts both ways - as Frederick Harris has written, religion has been used both as an opiate and as an inspiration for black political action.

Are you guys freaking serious? In 1960 when the church actually meant something to the black community besides hawking T.D. Jakes books, Madea bootlegs, and the never ending building fund I would agree with you wholeheartedly. However, these past two elections are prime examples of the farce that is Christianity in this country. Church pastors telling congregations to vote for a President that does not give a damn about the common man regardless of race. Faith based initiatives keeping the poor in check. I am not one to knock someone's religion whatever it may be, but Christianity is not viewed with the same reverence and call for social change that existed years ago. If social reform ever takes place in this country it will not be due to America's churches.

Paper Chaser

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Re: Black Folks and Religion
« Reply #74 on: July 05, 2007, 01:13:01 PM »
wait...what?  Black ppl are not held back by religion.  Black ppl are held up by other black ppl in a system that is not our own.  Nothing to do w/ religion. 

Wow and I thought I made a blanket statement. Religion in this country plays just as much a role in the brainwashing of blacks as it did when James Baldwin was writing about it. Surely, black people cannot be the entire or even half of the reason that other blacks are not able to achieve the american dream. If the system is not our own and it is structurally lacking in the ability to let minorities move further maybe it was designed that way.

blk_reign

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Re: Black Folks and Religion
« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2007, 01:21:41 PM »
there are about 6000 members there..so it isn't a super megachurch or anything but there are quite a few people there...3 services (or 4 can't remember) so you wouldn't feel out of place.. in fact you'd find more people there wearing afro-centric clothing than standard church clothes (including the pastor)...isn't a "requirement" though... i'm more traditional in my clothing when it comes to church (regarding suits and what not) but i'm definitely NOT a fan of church hats lol..

it'd be cool to check out jeremiah wright. he seems like a positive black person--particularly with the afro-centric approach and all. is his church really big? i would feel weird walking into a random church like that if its small and everyone knows everyone.


this is true..we definitely develop our own understandings/paths once we leave home.. and most of the time it's different from what we've watched our families practice...while in theory i'd say that the general principles are similar...there are some views that i have that my parents would probably be appauled at... i know that u aren't a christian..but i think that u should check out tucc (jeremiah wright)..google it.. and if u have the time (or a car) make it out there one sunday morning..i  appreciated and valued his teachings since high school..esp since he ties in african/ and african american history in his Biblical teachings...it's one thing that i really miss about chicago.. it comes on tvone on sundays now though..

well i grew up in a pretty religious household. and i havve done things that my parents think inappropriate. i think alot of how i began to interpret things led to a different understanding than what they had. that being said, my personal philosophy is that every person has to make faith their own once they leave home and that is bound to lead to different interpretations. also, i believe that the basis of my faith is cultivating a personal relationship with the most high--so i don't really participate in that much in terms of religious activities. i'm not Christian--but if I was I would be the one that rarely, if ever, shows up for church, but comes to volunteer for holidays/special events. thank goodness i'm not Christian b/c i would probably be talked about. lol! i'm hoping to one day find a community that makes me feel comfortable. i haven't had that since college.
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

blk_reign

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Re: Black Folks and Religion
« Reply #76 on: July 05, 2007, 01:25:45 PM »
it's different from AME..AME has more of a Baptist feel...with tradition but they add in some chants that were very different to me as well lol

it'd be cool to check out jeremiah wright. he seems like a positive black person--particularly with the afro-centric approach and all. is his church really big? i would feel weird walking into a random church like that if its small and everyone knows everyone.


this is true..we definitely develop our own understandings/paths once we leave home.. and most of the time it's different from what we've watched our families practice...while in theory i'd say that the general principles are similar...there are some views that i have that my parents would probably be appauled at... i know that u aren't a christian..but i think that u should check out tucc (jeremiah wright)..google it.. and if u have the time (or a car) make it out there one sunday morning..i  appreciated and valued his teachings since high school..esp since he ties in african/ and african american history in his Biblical teachings...it's one thing that i really miss about chicago.. it comes on tvone on sundays now though..

well i grew up in a pretty religious household. and i havve done things that my parents think inappropriate. i think alot of how i began to interpret things led to a different understanding than what they had. that being said, my personal philosophy is that every person has to make faith their own once they leave home and that is bound to lead to different interpretations. also, i believe that the basis of my faith is cultivating a personal relationship with the most high--so i don't really participate in that much in terms of religious activities. i'm not Christian--but if I was I would be the one that rarely, if ever, shows up for church, but comes to volunteer for holidays/special events. thank goodness i'm not Christian b/c i would probably be talked about. lol! i'm hoping to one day find a community that makes me feel comfortable. i haven't had that since college.

I'd totally go there if I were in Chi-town! I'd imagine some AME churches are like that too, but I've never been to one.

I agree with Lacoste. Yelling et al. during the sermon is played. Not to mention it causes confusion, which the Bible explicitly rejects. I don't like that.
We're not accepting this CHANGE UP in the rules. Period. American presidents have been in the bed with organized crime, corporate pilferers, and the like for years. And all u want to put on this man is that his pastor said "Gotdamn America?" Hell, America.U got off pretty damn well, if you ask me...

7S

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Re: Black Folks and Religion
« Reply #77 on: July 05, 2007, 05:09:01 PM »
Quote
I've heard this argument before from a lot of the Black Panther-esque types, but it doesn't hold true. Heard of liberation theology?  Yes, religion is one of the ways that slaveowners used to keep slaves docile (you know, along with whips and chains and rape and racism and such.) But at the same time, religion has been used in a way that inspires people to action. It cuts both ways - as Frederick Harris has written, religion has been used both as an opiate and as an inspiration for black political action.

Are you guys freaking serious? In 1960 when the church actually meant something to the black community besides hawking T.D. Jakes books, Madea bootlegs, and the never ending building fund I would agree with you wholeheartedly. However, these past two elections are prime examples of the farce that is Christianity in this country. Church pastors telling congregations to vote for a President that does not give a damn about the common man regardless of race. Faith based initiatives keeping the poor in check. I am not one to knock someone's religion whatever it may be, but Christianity is not viewed with the same reverence and call for social change that existed years ago. If social reform ever takes place in this country it will not be due to America's churches.
So you mean that you have a problem with the way many black churches operate today?
Well, I agree with you on that. I don't think it means that religion is what's holding us back - black people are probably ess religious now in the US than ever. I know church attendance is down. Religious groups were encouraging some black folks to be docile in 1960, in 1860, and in 1760 - still doesn't mean we should throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.

agreed. I don't think religion should be abolished. maybe it needs another reformation, but this time it needs to seperate from Capitalism and Politics.
It is easy to change the language of oppression without changing the sociopolitical situation of its victims.

naturallybeyoutiful

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Re: Black Folks and Religion
« Reply #78 on: July 05, 2007, 09:18:07 PM »
Anyone else grow up in a heavly religious household,
Yes

go to college,
Yes

and then question your beliefs?
Yes

Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt!  In fact, I think I was the poster child for it!  :P It was tough at the time, but looking back on it, those four years (and all the craziness...the questions...the doubts...the fears...the disappointments...the disillusionment, you name it) were defining moments that I wouldn't trade for the world!  It took all that to bring me to a place of seeking and finding for myself that Truth is a person -- not a book, a building, or religious system!  I truly thank God for busting out of the religious box I had kept Him in for so long, and revealing Himself to me for who He really was!  Thank God I finally ran out of steam on "religion" and found something far sweeter in its place -- "relationship" with a true and living God. 


Religion has always been the supporting structure to help black folk through troubling times (at least thats my perception). However, now I feel like it's crippling.

Religion is always crippling.  Man-made things do not and cannot give life.  Only the Author of Life can do that.  You must go to the source!  To the extent that God is one's "supporting structure", an individual, family, or nation will flourish.  Once religion (or even worse, a religious "experience") becomes your lifeline, you are going nowhere fast.  I find that many in the black community are "cultural Christians!"  I suspect you know what I'm talking about!  Many a person has had a "black church" experience, but few people have encountered the living God!  There is a WORLD of difference between the two.  One will attempt to control you from the outside in; the other changes you for the better from the inside out.  One is man's idea of reaching God; the other is your response to God reaching out for you.  When you experience Him...His presence, His power, His touch...when you hear His voice, begin to obey His counsel, walk in His ways, and know Him (not know about Him, but begin to know Him -- it changes you!!!!  You find yourself getting plugged into the very source of Life itself, and as a result, walking in the kind of love, authority, power, holiness, and relationship with God and people that you were created to know and embrace.   You find that you are only then beginning to really live, and it's exciting to see where  God takes you from there.  As the Scriptures declare, He does "exceedingly, abundantly, above all we could ever ask or hope or think."  Shedding the dead weight of religion is a small price to pay for the fulfillment and happiness that comes from knowing and being  known by your Creator!   

One of my roomies shared with me a quote that is quickly becoming a favorite.  Maybe it'll speak to you, too...
All religions are human efforts. If we start with any kind of religion, we do not start with God's revelation of himself. Religion is therefore a substitute for revelation and leads us away from God. The only true religion is response to revelation. That response is faith, which is humble acceptance of God's gift to us. -- Karl Barth

Not sure where you are in your faith journey, or even if you're still on one, but if you are interested in learning about any of the resources that helped somebody whose been down the road you described in your original post, PM me!   :)
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7S

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Re: Black Folks and Religion
« Reply #79 on: July 05, 2007, 09:30:35 PM »
Anyone else grow up in a heavly religious household,
Yes

go to college,
Yes

and then question your beliefs?
Yes

Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt!  In fact, I think I was the poster child for it!  :P It was tough at the time, but looking back on it, those four years (and all the craziness...the questions...the doubts...the fears...the disappointments...the disillusionment, you name it) were defining moments that I wouldn't trade for the world!  It took all that to bring me to a place of seeking and finding for myself that Truth is a person -- not a book, a building, or religious system!  I truly thank God for busting out of the religious box I had kept Him in for so long, and revealing Himself to me for who He really was!  Thank God I finally ran out of steam on "religion" and found something far sweeter in its place -- "relationship" with a true and living God. 


Religion has always been the supporting structure to help black folk through troubling times (at least thats my perception). However, now I feel like it's crippling.

Religion is always crippling.  Man-made things do not and cannot give life.  Only the Author of Life can do that.  You must go to the source!  To the extent that God is one's "supporting structure", an individual, family, or nation will flourish.  Once religion (or even worse, a religious "experience") becomes your lifeline, you are going nowhere fast.  I find that many in the black community are "cultural Christians!"  I suspect you know what I'm talking about!  Many a person has had a "black church" experience, but few people have encounted the living God!  There is a WORLD of difference between the two.  One will attempt to control you from the outside in; the other changes you for the better from the inside out.  One is man's idea of reaching God; the other is your response to God reaching out for you.  When you experience Him...His presence, His power, His touch...when you hear His voice, begin to obey His counsel, walk in His ways, and know Him (not know about Him, but begin to know Him -- it changes you!!!!  You find yourself getting plugged into the very source of Life itself, and as a result, walking in the kind of love, authority, power, holiness, and relationship with God and people that you were created to know and embrace.   You find that you are only then beginning to really live, and it's exciting to see where  God takes you from there.  As the Scriptures declare, He does "exceedingly, abundantly, above all we could ever ask or hope or think."  Shedding the dead weight of religion is a small price to pay for the fulfillment and happiness that comes from knowing and being  known by your Creator!   

One of my roomies shared with me a quote that is quickly becoming a favorite.  Maybe it'll speak to you, too...
All religions are human efforts. If we start with any kind of religion, we do not start with God's revelation of himself. Religion is therefore a substitute for revelation and leads us away from God. The only true religion is response to revelation. That response is faith, which is humble acceptance of God's gift to us. -- Karl Barth

Not sure where you are in your faith journey, or even if you're still on one, but if you are interested in learning about any of the resources that helped somebody whose been down the road you described in your original post, PM me!   :)


my bad. I didn't say all that...when I was quoting i kinda jacked it up.
It is easy to change the language of oppression without changing the sociopolitical situation of its victims.