Law School Discussion

Need Real Help: BC vs. Fordham vs. Vanderbilt

Re: Need Real Help: BC vs. Fordham vs. Vanderbilt
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2007, 10:10:32 AM »

I've gotta think Vandy will place better in NYC, even though this is Fordham's home turf. 

Incorrect.  You are always better off going to a school in the market that you want to work in.  You'll realize this after your first year of law school, and even more so after your second.

where non-elite schools are concerned, i agree. vandy is a good school, but it's not harvard. my firm only had 1 summer from vandy. while i'm sure self-selection plays a role, the fact is that there just aren't a lot of vandy alums in partnership positions at nyc firms. the school is something of an unknown quantity, and in any case, you don't have partners pushing the firm to recruit there.

Re: Need Real Help: BC vs. Fordham vs. Vanderbilt
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2007, 10:44:02 AM »

I've gotta think Vandy will place better in NYC, even though this is Fordham's home turf. 

Incorrect.  You are always better off going to a school in the market that you want to work in.  You'll realize this after your first year of law school, and even more so after your second.

where non-elite schools are concerned, i agree. vandy is a good school, but it's not harvard. my firm only had 1 summer from vandy. while i'm sure self-selection plays a role, the fact is that there just aren't a lot of vandy alums in partnership positions at nyc firms. the school is something of an unknown quantity, and in any case, you don't have partners pushing the firm to recruit there.


See above.  Vandy may not be Harvard (and only Harvard is), but it's still an elite school.  I'd be hard pressed to find significant differences between NU, GULC, and Vandy, aside from the fact that the former schools are slighly more national, with slightly higher LSAT's. 

I sincerely doubt that Vandy is really an "unknown" quantity in NYC, or anywhere else on the east coast.  Their national reputation rating is only a couple points below Northwestern, I believe.

And again, even if you have Fordham partners pushing to recruit from Fordham, they're only going to take the top 25% - 30% at larger firms.  The rest will have to struggle. 

Saying that Fordham will place "better" in NYC than Vandy is like saying GULC will place better in D.C. than UVA or Chicago.  Yes, GULC has more local alumni, and probably even more local partners.  But the former schools have stronger reputations, and the law of supply and demand will make getting those jobs more competitive for GULC grads. 

vandy is absolutely NOT an elite school. it's a good school, don't get me wrong, but it's not elite. only the top 14 qualify as elite in this profession, and even then some are not nearly as elite as others (ex: duke in nyc). nobody who went to a top school will be impressed when they hear you went to vandy. that's just the way it is.

all i can say is that as a person who lives (and will be working in ) nyc i think you would be much better off at fordham. again, there's just not that many vandy grades at nyc law firms, while there are tons of fordham grads. the school has a huge alumni base here (100 years worth) who actively push their firms to recruit there.

i did my 1st year at fordham. i had several interviews w/fordham alums (both partners and associates) where i made nicey-nice by bs'ing about professors we both had. as you might suspect, i got offers from these firms. that will not happen if you go to vandy.

large law firms have absolutley no reason to prefer a vandy student over a fordham student; rather, they have many reasons to prefer fordham over vandy.

nubova

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Re: Need Real Help: BC vs. Fordham vs. Vanderbilt
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2007, 11:36:19 AM »

I sincerely doubt that Vandy is really an "unknown" quantity in NYC, or anywhere else on the east coast. 


You can doubt it, but I am explicitly telling you as a summer at a top 50 firm that Vandy is not the better school for NYC placement.  You would think you would take a minute to realize that I am in a large summer class filled with top law students and surrounded by law students summering at other top 25 firms in the city.  I have the resources to actaully tell you whether Vandy places well in NYC and I am telling you that it does not place better than Fordham in NYC.  This is not up for debate, no matter what you try to speculate. 

Re: Need Real Help: BC vs. Fordham vs. Vanderbilt
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2007, 12:06:35 PM »
your reliance on usnews data is misguided. nobody knows who they send thse surveys out to, but they're cartainly not only filled out by ny'ers. fordham's rep is great in ny, but outside of the state nobody knows about it. it's self-selection. fordham is a school for ny'ers who want to work in ny. so if us news sends out 10 surveys, 2 to ny'ers and 8 to people in the south, the 2 ny'ers will rate fordham over vandy, but all the southerners will rate vandy over fordham by a longshot. bottom line - the reputational score is not an accurate reflection of the school's reputation in it's own geographic area. another example: i think nyu has about the same rep ranking as michigan. obviously, if you go to nyu you will get a better job in nyc then a um student, all else being equal.

i don't really care about this topic enough to argue it any more. i'm really just trying to find a way to put off studying for the bar. but my final point is just that ny'ers overwhelmingly tend to be ny-centric a-holes. we barely realize there's a world outside ny. so, the kid from fordham has an advantage solely by virtue of going to school in ny. chances are he grew up here or somewhere in the nyc suburbs. absent some sort of compelling connection to nyc, the vandy kid is goinf to lose to the fordham kid. christ, i got offers just b/c i was the same nationality as my interviewee and was living in the neighborhood where he grew up.

Re: Need Real Help: BC vs. Fordham vs. Vanderbilt
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2007, 01:43:22 PM »
Here are some placement statistics published by The National Law Journal.  While not necessarily pertinent to the NYC debate, they may be useful in giving the OP an idea of Big Law placement at the schools he was looking at. 


"BC - Boston
Fordham - NYC (the edge vs. Vandy)
Vandy - South + Everywhere else"

Nubova:
"LOL. From the south?"

The following also seems to lend credence to my outline of placement.  Fordham and Boston College have strong Big Law placement statistics.  Assuming that a high percentage of these grads are going to Boston and NYC firms respectively, it seems clear that Vanderbilt has the edge in placement nationally.  To reiterate my original post:

BC - Boston
Fordham - NYC
Vanderbilt - Everywhere else WITH the option of Boston or NYC 


Law schools with the highest percentage of graduates hired by NLJ largest 250 firms
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Columbia Law School 69.6% 450 313

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University of Pennsylvania 68.2% 274 187

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University of Chicago 65.1% 192 125

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Harvard Law School 59.2% 571 338

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Duke Law School 56.8% 220 125


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New York University 56.6% 465 263

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Cornell University 56.0% 193 108

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Stanford Law School 54.9% 175 96

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University of Michigan 54.3% 431 234

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University of Virginia 54.1% 375 203

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Northwestern University 54.0% 265 143

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Georgetown University 53.0% 626 332

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University of California-Berkeley 49.0% 300 147

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Vanderbilt University 48.0% 202 97

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Yale Law School 46.8% 203 95

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Boston College 39.1% 284 111

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George Washington  38.8% 482 187

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Fordham University 38.8% 477 185

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University of Texas 38.6% 502 194

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University of Southern California  36.3% 215 78

nubova

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Re: Need Real Help: BC vs. Fordham vs. Vanderbilt
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2007, 07:03:45 PM »
Vandy is a great school, but again, it is not nearly as good at placement in NYC.  This was the point.  Vandy places well at large firms, as do BC and Fordham, but that percentage does not indicate how many went to NYC, which is the issue we are discussing.  Vandy is a great school, don't get me wrong, but if you want to work in NYC, I would never advise someone to go to Vandy.

Finally, I find it amusing that New Yorkers at the top firms in the country are posting on here telling you that you are wrong, and yet, you can't concede that fact. Hilarious. 

Edit: To ensure that I am not trolling, I have no affiliation with Fordham and choose another T25 school over it.