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Author Topic: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)  (Read 12407 times)

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Re: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2007, 08:26:42 PM »
I think part of it is that the market for Black lawyers in most cities is saturated.


whoa. hold up. when did this happen?   ???

good catch. In private practice. What I mean is that every city has those Black lawyers that own their own firms and they're already established and have a stranglehold on the market. Since white people (from what I've heard) are reluctant to hire African Americans in small partnerships or sole practicioner practices, the competition for clients is fierce and success is incredibly difficult for the new kids on the block. I noted this to explain why Black men where relunctant to go into law (ie, they have a strong entrepreneurial spirt and market situations might be adverse to that goal).

Of course, you could challenge the assertion. In fact, I'd welcome it.

I agree with all of it except half of the bolded.  I think black men have strong entrepeneurial spirit but I do not think our lack of participation in law is necessarily the result of some sort of analysis where law, per se, was ruled out because the market is oversaturated.  That said, the market may very well be over saturated, but I think rather that black men have looked at Law School and have followed the path of least resistence so to speak.  Alot of it has to do with taking on debt, going the familiar path (blue color tradition) etc.  It just so happens that the familiar blue collar path is being phased out, but thats another story.  Anyway, I don't think law school even enters the realm of possibility long enough to afford a real cost benefit analysis.  I think alot of us just choose other avenues for myriad reasons unique, or more relevant, to black men. 
The Tragicomic: Itís embodied in the blues, jazz, (HIP HOP, CORNELL <<one slight deserves another!!!!<< REALLY MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE!!!) and the African experience in the New World -- the ability to withstand terrorism, embrace oneís worst enemies lovingly and bear the unbearable in song.

TruOne

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Re: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2007, 08:59:53 PM »
Let's be honest, who in their right mind wants to spend an additional THREE more years in school NOT MAKING MONEY! When you can go out and get a job w/ PAID vacation AND benefits AND a yearly salary!?!

"Why the hell am I gonna force myself FURTHER into debt when I managed to get thru school with little to no debt. Now I gotta take some awkward-ass test that doesn't make any sense and you gotta score ridiculously high to get into one of those Ivy League schools. Plus I only know a handful of cats who are actually goin' to Law School, ain't nobody else goin' thru this mess.

Hell, everybody else I know got their college degree and is making good money. I got my Business degree, I'll be straight, if I want to I can go back to school after I worked for a couple of years and saved up some money. But for now I'm tryin' to make that paper!"

Now how many of us have had this conversation with someone or heard a brutha use this similar justification for why they aren't going to Law School?
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Re: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2007, 11:23:10 PM »
Let's be honest, who in their right mind wants to spend an additional THREE more years in school NOT MAKING MONEY! When you can go out and get a job w/ PAID vacation AND benefits AND a yearly salary!?!

"Why the hell am I gonna force myself FURTHER into debt when I managed to get thru school with little to no debt. Now I gotta take some awkward-ass test that doesn't make any sense and you gotta score ridiculously high to get into one of those Ivy League schools. Plus I only know a handful of cats who are actually goin' to Law School, ain't nobody else goin' thru this mess.

Hell, everybody else I know got their college degree and is making good money. I got my Business degree, I'll be straight, if I want to I can go back to school after I worked for a couple of years and saved up some money. But for now I'm tryin' to make that paper!"

Now how many of us have had this conversation with someone or heard a brutha use this similar justification for why they aren't going to Law School?

Let the church say Amen.
That is the conversation I had with myself after I graduated with my bs. I wouldn't have gone to law school if someone stuck a gun to my head. I got my MBA because I didn't have to quit work. So here I am now, about to begin this 3 year journey. The good thing is my folks will front me tuition, because they are very education-centric and as long as I continue to do positive things with my life they will support my endeavors. Don't think I am not aware of how generous a blessing that is because I certainly am. So i guess it boils down to brothers not being comfortable with being without income for 3 years in conjunction with racking up a gang of debt. It actually makes sense, but I still haven't figured out why med school over law school

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Re: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)
« Reply #53 on: July 03, 2007, 07:44:53 AM »
Let's be honest, who in their right mind wants to spend an additional THREE more years in school NOT MAKING MONEY! When you can go out and get a job w/ PAID vacation AND benefits AND a yearly salary!?!

"Why the hell am I gonna force myself FURTHER into debt when I managed to get thru school with little to no debt. Now I gotta take some awkward-ass test that doesn't make any sense and you gotta score ridiculously high to get into one of those Ivy League schools. Plus I only know a handful of cats who are actually goin' to Law School, ain't nobody else goin' thru this mess.

Hell, everybody else I know got their college degree and is making good money. I got my Business degree, I'll be straight, if I want to I can go back to school after I worked for a couple of years and saved up some money. But for now I'm tryin' to make that paper!"

Now how many of us have had this conversation with someone or heard a brutha use this similar justification for why they aren't going to Law School?

Let the church say Amen.
That is the conversation I had with myself after I graduated with my bs. I wouldn't have gone to law school if someone stuck a gun to my head. I got my MBA because I didn't have to quit work. So here I am now, about to begin this 3 year journey. The good thing is my folks will front me tuition, because they are very education-centric and as long as I continue to do positive things with my life they will support my endeavors. Don't think I am not aware of how generous a blessing that is because I certainly am. So i guess it boils down to brothers not being comfortable with being without income for 3 years in conjunction with racking up a gang of debt. It actually makes sense, but I still haven't figured out why med school over law school

ha.  your folks are more than just education centric, they are pretty well off to even be able.  blessing indeed. 

I've been giving ls alot of second thoughts lately.  its down to two schools, but I found a better job making more than I ever have within the past month.  (the thought of quiting before trainings done makes me feel like a theif but thats something else altogether.)  I added it all up and I wont be in the black for years.  talking well into thirties if I go to the higher ranked school - and whos to even say I cut it in BIGLAW or even make BIGLAW?  if thats the case It'll be 40's whoa..  But then you never know what opportunities lie behind these doors.  I could do something I never expected..sigh.  For the other school its alot cheaper, but I still have to add up all the money i'll be making at work (advancement opportunity in 3 yrs.), i wont be making in school, and the debt - its killer.  Maybe bros are more concerned with money than woman, and at younger ages.  seems like sisters i willing to invest in the future and hold off whereas more bros seem to want money now. 

As for Med School...isn't med school and hard science skewed towards men regardless of race whereas in law school there is more parity between attendence of the sexes?  If thats the case I'd bet black women show pretty well in med school compared to black men even if we may outnumber them - not sure about the numbers for med school though.
The Tragicomic: Itís embodied in the blues, jazz, (HIP HOP, CORNELL <<one slight deserves another!!!!<< REALLY MISSED THE BOAT ON THAT ONE!!!) and the African experience in the New World -- the ability to withstand terrorism, embrace oneís worst enemies lovingly and bear the unbearable in song.

Slim

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Re: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2007, 09:13:56 AM »
I think part of it is that the market for Black lawyers in most cities is saturated.


whoa. hold up. when did this happen?   ???

good catch. In private practice. What I mean is that every city has those Black lawyers that own their own firms and they're already established and have a stranglehold on the market. Since white people (from what I've heard) are reluctant to hire African Americans in small partnerships or sole practicioner practices, the competition for clients is fierce and success is incredibly difficult for the new kids on the block. I noted this to explain why Black men where relunctant to go into law (ie, they have a strong entrepreneurial spirt and market situations might be adverse to that goal).

Of course, you could challenge the assertion. In fact, I'd welcome it.
I haven't seen any instance of saturation in the solo market for black lawyers in Philadelphia.  There aren't enougng lawyers in black communities.  Maybe you want to narrow down you statement to a specific practice area.
Our community needs more Trust and Estate Attorneys, Tax Attorneys, and Real Property Attorneys. As black folk tend to go into business we need more Corporate Attorneys.  We need Family Law attorneys that understand our culture and can council accordingly, and definately more Child Advocates since we have so many single parent, and no parent homes. 

One of the problems is that people tend to look at the black community as 1 or 2 dimensional, thinking that all we need are civil rights attorneys, and criminal defense attorneys.  People need real services, basic services, that (some) white commuities take for granted.  These people have the money to pay for it.  Just ask the minister at the corner baptist churh rolling in his new town car.


Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson.

Slim

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Re: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2007, 09:20:25 AM »
Let's be honest, who in their right mind wants to spend an additional THREE more years in school NOT MAKING MONEY! When you can go out and get a job w/ PAID vacation AND benefits AND a yearly salary!?!

"Why the hell am I gonna force myself FURTHER into debt when I managed to get thru school with little to no debt. Now I gotta take some awkward-ass test that doesn't make any sense and you gotta score ridiculously high to get into one of those Ivy League schools. Plus I only know a handful of cats who are actually goin' to Law School, ain't nobody else goin' thru this mess.

Hell, everybody else I know got their college degree and is making good money. I got my Business degree, I'll be straight, if I want to I can go back to school after I worked for a couple of years and saved up some money. But for now I'm tryin' to make that paper!"

Now how many of us have had this conversation with someone or heard a brutha use this similar justification for why they aren't going to Law School?
I'm not so sure that black attorneys need to come from the top schools as much as white attorneys do.  Your chances of gettting biglaw work are just as terrible anywhere.  You just need to get that J.D. and try to score in the top 10%.  We need to start thinking about building blackbiglaw in order to get our peice of the bigger pie. 
Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson.

law_dawg_07

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Re: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2007, 03:13:54 PM »
Let's be honest, who in their right mind wants to spend an additional THREE more years in school NOT MAKING MONEY! When you can go out and get a job w/ PAID vacation AND benefits AND a yearly salary!?!

"Why the hell am I gonna force myself FURTHER into debt when I managed to get thru school with little to no debt. Now I gotta take some awkward-ass test that doesn't make any sense and you gotta score ridiculously high to get into one of those Ivy League schools. Plus I only know a handful of cats who are actually goin' to Law School, ain't nobody else goin' thru this mess.

Hell, everybody else I know got their college degree and is making good money. I got my Business degree, I'll be straight, if I want to I can go back to school after I worked for a couple of years and saved up some money. But for now I'm tryin' to make that paper!"

Now how many of us have had this conversation with someone or heard a brutha use this similar justification for why they aren't going to Law School?

I dont think this is situation-specific for black men only.  Hell, I think a lot of people, regardless of race or gender question themselves along this angle.   
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Leo

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Re: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2007, 03:46:01 PM »
That is something that I have always questioned also, why law? Is it the debt? The dedication? We make are usually the majority of inmates...yet nobody is doing anything...we need more black lawyers!

It's not just law. Black women are outnumbering black men in all professional schools.

And it's not just black people either. Women are outpacing men as a whole. This general social trend, just like many others, is merely amplified by race and poverty.

cui bono?

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Re: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2007, 03:50:48 PM »
That is something that I have always questioned also, why law? Is it the debt? The dedication? We make are usually the majority of inmates...yet nobody is doing anything...we need more black lawyers!

It's not just law. Black women are outnumbering black men in all professional schools.

And it's not just black people either. Women are outpacing men as a whole. This general social trend, just like many others, is merely amplified by race and poverty.

true
I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality...  I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word - -Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King

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Re: Shortage of Black Men in Law (Dismal)
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2007, 04:35:40 PM »
Black man here