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Author Topic: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K  (Read 12225 times)

SamSpade

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Re: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2007, 01:41:03 PM »
Let me try and address the OP's concern (and some posts in this thread) with a little practicality:

I went to BLS last year.  I spoke to cannotpick last year as well for some advice and he generally gives good advice for those who wish to attend, IMHO.

I personally liked the school a whole lot.  I found that my classmates were nice, considerate and for the most part, fairly intelligent.  They had decent social lives, as much as law school will allow.

I also liked the teachers for the most part.  There are a couple of teachers who I will always stay away from now, but there were about 3-4 teachers that I simply thought were incredible and will take courses from them again.

I got my class rank today actually, and I managed to barely squeeze into the top 1/3rd (32% actually).  My number was 3.344, so that means top 1/3rd is probably right at 3.33 this year.  I'm guessing top 40% is somewhere between 3.25 and 3.30.

However, considering I got a B- in the course with the most credits fall semester, I consider it a great result, especially since I get to keep my large scholarship from last year (previous years was top 1/3rd to keep scholarship, as mentioned before).  Proves that one can keep their scholarship with one B- in the record, though I pulled consistently grades above B in nearly all other classes to make that actually happen.

I realize also that this makes my OCI chances kinda low, but that's not the end of the world in my book.  Since I'm presently living with my fiance who also works, I'll only be graduating with around 50K of debt in the end, and that's quite good in my book, even if I don't get the top jobs to start off with.

I do advise you to listen to cannotpick, however.  If I had lost my scholarship, I likely would have dropped out, b/c I consider there to be a great difference of having 50K of debt, as opposed to over 100K of debt, with worse job prosepcts, as those under the top 1/3rd (and especially top 50%) will likely have.  Also, don't assume that top 40% is a guarantee; I happen to know a couple of classmates who came in here with scholarships this year and are going to lose them (I'll find out exactly when I talk to them).  Law school is tough and it is extremely hard to prepare for until you're in the middle of the fray.

So, in short, the requirement is a gamble.  You can end up like cannotpick (in great shape), like me (in decent shape), or like some of my classmates (in bad shape).

Oh, and one other thing:  I was taking a final this year in a room when the infamous fire alarm occurred.  It first went off for about 5 minutes, then we were ordered downstairs.  Once we had gotten downstairs (along with a number of other classes), we were ordered back up the stairs again. That whole ordeal took about 10 minutes to get correctly situated.  My classroom got 15 minutes of extra test time. 

However, this class that I was taking was a seminar (i.e., small, 40 people) class, meaning that everyone from the class was in the same room.  The two people who wrote by hand were right next door and were being handled by the same proctors.  So, in that class specifically, I doubt anyone got any particular advantage.  I may have had a slight one, since I was able to type while the fire alarm was blaring for the first 5 minutes (ultra-concentration)

I don't know whether this is the class BLS2L is referring to or not.  I did consider it to be low-class behavior by the school, personally.
Attending BLS in Fall '06...

donvito

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Re: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2007, 02:13:10 PM »
SamSpade -- did you consider your first year to be particularly difficult?  how much effort did you put in to the earn the grades that you received.  i'm gonna go to BLS in the fall so i'm just asking.
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smoo

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Re: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2007, 08:41:18 PM »
The class that BLS2L is referring to is actually a class that had 64 students in one room, 15 in another, and 5 in another all taking the same exam when the fire alarm went off. Due to miscommunication with proctors, the 64 classroom got 15 minutes extra time. The BLS administration became aware of the situation the following day and did everything in their power to remedy the situation. They met with students from those classrooms on multiple occations and in the end curved the big room separately from the smaller rooms so that people were only compared on equal footing.

This kind of dedication to its students I'd say is indicative of the school. I had a great time my first year and I am looking forward to being a BLS 2L.

big - fat - box

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Re: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2007, 10:04:49 PM »
As a current law student (not at BLS though) I can say this is some of the most sound advice I've ever seen on a pre-law board.

If you don't do well at a school like BLS or some other expensive, regional private school, your best option is likely to drop out - assuming you are funding your legal education yourself.

Sometimes people need to make mature, drastic decisions like dropping out if they want to remain financially solvent.



I'm a quitter?!  Buddy, I'm at the top of my class.  You don't have to be an economist to understand that everything, including law school, has a dollar value.  I wouldn't invest in a stock and then hold on to it just because I "like it."  As with buying stock, law school is an investment.  People from the bottom of class at BLS & BU have trouble finding good paying jobs and they graduate with an enormous amount of debt.  If I did poorly in law school, I wouldn't stick around and rack up more debt just because you think that leaving before I go $100k deep in debt (that I'll probably never be able to pay off) makes me a "quitter."  What a joke.
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SamSpade

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Re: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K
« Reply #84 on: July 01, 2007, 12:58:50 PM »
SamSpade -- did you consider your first year to be particularly difficult?

I think everyone has things they find particularly difficult about law school, but what each person finds difficult is not always the same.  There are also a few people who find nothing difficult; consider yourself fortunate if your one of those people.

For me, test-taking was the most difficult part, b/c I am just not a good test-taker in general.  I just get nervous and my brain freezes (this was a problem in the LSAT too, every time, no matter how much practice).  It took me one round of so-so tests in the 1st semester for me to overhaul my test-taking skills so that the brain freeze didn't occur, along with a different type of test preparation. 

In test preparation, everyone uses a different method.  Personally, I prefer creating an outline for each class, breaking it down and then taking practice tests.  I typically avoid commercial outlines unless there is some principle I'm not getting.  Creating your own separate outline is important b/c it allows you to consolidate the class as your teacher taught it, so that you can bring up points in the exam he wants to read.  The mistake I made 1st semester was not taking enough practice tests, b/c it really does help.

However, each person is different.  Don't assume that my strategy is going to work for you.  It is but a strategy.

Although legal writing is a skill necessary to learn (and important on tests), some people have problems with this.  I pretty much got the office memo and the appellate brief from the beginning and did well in that class consistently.

Some people will have problems "thinking like a lawyer".  If you're in this group, I consider it to be not good, b/c you're probably behind everyone else.  Usually, it's fairly easy to tell in a class if someone falls into this category; if you notice it in someone else, you're probably not one of them.

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how much effort did you put in to the earn the grades that you received.  i'm gonna go to BLS in the fall so i'm just asking.

Well, I put a good bit of work into it, but then again most of my classmates did as well.  There are always some who work much harder, but that doesn't necessarily mean better results.

You need to put in a strong effort, unless you're one of those people who gets everything naturally, but I would say there is no direct correlation between amount of work and results. 

Simply put, you don't need to torture yourself.  Go out and take a day or two totally off from the law every once in a while, and I would personally advise taking one day off each week generally, especially towards the beginning of the semester.  If you want to torture yourself, do it at the end of the semester, when you actually can see the arc of the material you're learning.
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seahawk87

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Re: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K
« Reply #85 on: July 01, 2007, 01:52:08 PM »
I chose PR as the firm because of my interest in its sports law practice and that it pays $165k to 1st year associates along with the other top firms.

Miss P

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Re: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K
« Reply #86 on: July 01, 2007, 05:56:24 PM »
The class that BLS2L is referring to is actually a class that had 64 students in one room, 15 in another, and 5 in another all taking the same exam when the fire alarm went off. Due to miscommunication with proctors, the 64 classroom got 15 minutes extra time. The BLS administration became aware of the situation the following day and did everything in their power to remedy the situation. They met with students from those classrooms on multiple occations and in the end curved the big room separately from the smaller rooms so that people were only compared on equal footing.

This kind of dedication to its students I'd say is indicative of the school. I had a great time my first year and I am looking forward to being a BLS 2L.

I'm glad to hear this situation got resolved.  I know someone in the affected classroom who was very upset when this happened.  But did they really curve the smaller classrooms?  Leaving aside problems with the curve in general, I think it's highly unfair to curve such a small group of students, especially one that's not a representative sample of the entire class.  Shouldn't that group have been graded according to a more flexible curve (e.g., the protocol for upperclass seminars and clinics)?
That's cool how you referenced a case.

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Kittyl30

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Re: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K
« Reply #87 on: July 02, 2007, 01:44:08 AM »
i also would like to add BU isnt exactly a T14. you need to be top 10-15% to get BIGlaw job.  same with BLS.  so bottom line is: you have to be in the top of your class in BOTH SCHOOLS to get a biglaw job. i chose BU b/c i had no clue whether i could keep mys cholarhshipr or not. but in general i dont think you should go into thinking "omg BU is such a better shcool" b/c realistically while ranked higher, you still need to be at the top of your class to get biglaw. reality is anything outside of the T14 you need to be in the top of your class

taht is all

any BU questions you have i would be glad to answer...
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Vapid Unicorn

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Re: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K
« Reply #88 on: July 02, 2007, 08:24:20 AM »
i also would like to add BU isnt exactly a T14. you need to be top 10-15% to get BIGlaw job.

This is an interesting statement, and I'd love to hear more about it.  Some of the data that I have suggests that no less than 25% of the class has a biglaw job upon graduation.  Assuming that some significant portion of the top of the class wants to do government or PI work, the depth of biglaw placement could be as much a 33%.  On the other had, the lawfirmaddict site shows only 11% of the class with V100 jobs.  Unless many BU grads are taking jobs at non-Vault biglaw (a distinct possibility given the firms in Boston market), I'm not sure what data to believe.  What makes you convinced that only 10-15% of the class get biglaw.  Does BU have pre-screening and grade cuttoffs for interviews?

EDIT: I did a similar comparison of the two data sources for Brooklyn.  One said that 9% of the class gets a biglaw job, while the other said that only 4% gets a Vault 100 job.  Given that the proportions are similar to BU, it is quite possible that both sources are substantially correct and that many students from both schools take non-Vault biglaw jobs.


To answer MP's question, firms do go deeper into BU's class. Depending on the statistics you want to reference, it looks as though elite firms go nearly 3 times as deep into BU's class (i.e., a firm that only offers to the top 5% of Brooklyn's class would offer to the top 15% at BU).  At the bottom end, Brooklyn only has about 55% firm placement compared to BU's 65%, which suggests that more Brooklyn students who want law firm jobs end up pushed into other forms of employment by their grades.
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ě

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Re: Brooklyn Law full ride v. B.U w. $15K
« Reply #89 on: July 02, 2007, 08:37:57 AM »
I'm a quitter?!  Buddy, I'm at the top of my class.
No, but according to yourself you would have been if you weren't in the top of your class. My point exactly.

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You don't have to be an economist to understand that everything, including law school, has a dollar value.
Certainly. Is the dollar value of your undergraduate higher than sub top 1/3rd of your law school class? Maybe in your case it is, I know nothing about your ugrad, but for most liberal arts / humanities students that isn't reality. So quitting by having a tough first year wouldn't be sound advice at all. Working harder would be.

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I wouldn't invest in a stock and then hold on to it just because I "like it."  As with buying stock, law school is an investment.
And as with buying stock, you'd be an idiot if you started selling out when it took a dive. A smart investor would trust his judgment call to buy it, wait for better days and sell it with a profit. This translates to what I said about working harder. If you end up subprime in your law school class, you recommend going "Ok, I give up". I recommend "This isn't good enough, I'll work harder next year". So yeah, you're a quitter by mentality, saved by success.


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People from the bottom of class at BLS & BU have trouble finding good paying jobs and they graduate with an enormous amount of debt.
Yeah, unlike English Lit majors making millions at Goldman Sachs.

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If I did poorly in law school, I wouldn't stick around and rack up more debt just because you think that leaving before I go $100k deep in debt (that I'll probably never be able to pay off) makes me a "quitter."  What a joke.
Yeah, I agree, your advice was a joke. A bad one at that. Yet again, if your undergraduate is economics from Wharton, or comp tech from MIT or something, sure, @#!* law school and go get a good job. If you are, like most law school applicants, coming from a fairly weak undergraduate (in terms of job opps, not academic quality), this is horrible advice. And yes, giving up at the lack of success in your first year == quitter. Deal with it.