Why I support Affirmative Action..

[Astro]

I know.  I should've used another one.

may that be a lesson to you.

One well learned.

[vercingetorix]

2)  The pervasive and systemic racism we know today was mostly the result of a shift in European attitudes in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.  That doesn't mean that racism didn't exist all over the world before that, but it was simply just not to the same degree or with such devastating effect.  Nor does that mean that it was ever limited to just whites.  But those other "types" of racism (and please don't confuse xenophobia with racism) are -- again -- irrelevant to this thread, because they are irrelevant to affirmative action.

[/quote]

and now i put you to your proof dude.  this is pure folly.  white racism doesn't begin to compare to racism of other races/ethnic groups throughout human history.  you've made this insane point, now show me the facts.  and not some lame "just look at (insert century)".  i know with a high degree of certainty that what you have asserted does not stand up to careful historic analysis. 

[Astro]

LOLZ

Okay, buddy.  "Pure folly"?  "High degree of certainty"?  "Careful historic analysis"?  I'm going to leave that for others to laugh it.  This isn't worth my time.

If you do want to make this worth my time, define "racism".  Make it thorough.  Then maybe we can talk.

[vercingetorix]

i knew it man.  you just cry racism and then sit down, shut up and color when people ask you to back up some of your outrageous assertions.  nice job.

[Astro]

i knew it man.  you just cry racism and then sit down, shut up and color when people ask you to back up some of your outrageous assertions.  nice job.

1.  I didn't cry racism.
2.  I didn't shut up.
3.  I'd like to take a poll to see which one of our assertions people actually deem "outrageous". 

In fact, all I'm asking of you for us to have a real conversation is the following:

1.  What assertions do you think I'm making?
2.  How would you define "racism"?  Not WHO is racist, but WHAT is racism.

[Astro]

i knew it man.  you just cry racism and then sit down, shut up and color when people ask you to back up some of your outrageous assertions.  nice job.

1.  I didn't cry racism.
2.  I didn't shut up.
3.  I'd like to take a poll to see which one of our assertions people actually deem "outrageous". 

In fact, all I'm asking of you for us to have a real conversation is the following:

1.  What assertions do you think I'm making?
2.  How would you define "racism"?  Not WHO is racist, but WHAT is racism.

i think he's saying: there's nothing special about white racism and that all people are racist in the same way.  it's kind of hard to get past the shrillness but that's what i'm getting.

Yeah, I know.  I think he's mistaking my argument for a counter to his, though.

[vercingetorix]

i think he's saying: there's nothing special about white racism and that all people are racist in the same way.  it's kind of hard to get past the shrillness but that's what i'm getting.
[/quote]

TITCR

additionally, the assertion to which i take umbrage was boldfaced for your convenience.  i will repeat it here for your convenience

"The pervasive and systemic racism we know today was mostly the result of a shift in European attitudes in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.  That doesn't mean that racism didn't exist all over the world before that, but it was simply just not to the same degree or with such devastating effect."

this is utter tripe and is largely without historical (and mind you recorded history is on my argument's side here since whites have only been "in power" for about 600 years) merit. not saying white euros are angels, they just aren't the ones who have perpetrated racism with the most "devastating effect" as you so erroneously contend. 

as for what is "racism"?  that is an excellent question.  is Dave Matthews African-American?  what does it mean to be African-American definitionally?  what in god's name is an Asian-American?  or what is a Latino for that matter? all of these categories are hilarious attempts to conveniently compartmentalize people.  what a joke.  even European-American is silly.  Greeks have far more in common with Turks than Finns. the whole thing (and here is where i get to AA) is laughable.  my niece is 1/2 Mexican and yet she has bond hair and blue eyes.  is she any less Mexican, any less American? will she get preferential treatment for admissions to school when she gets around to applying (you bet your ass she will).  is it deserved?

[filet o' fish]

Wow...upper middle class white conservatives fighting with militant liberals and minorities on AA, something tells me that this thread will never achieve any sort of resolution

Kind of like white Marines killing dark-skinned Arabs in the middle east and calling it heroism.

 

[Astro]

i think he's saying: there's nothing special about white racism and that all people are racist in the same way.  it's kind of hard to get past the shrillness but that's what i'm getting.

TITCR

additionally, the assertion to which i take umbrage was boldfaced for your convenience.  i will repeat it here for your convenience

"The pervasive and systemic racism we know today was mostly the result of a shift in European attitudes in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.  That doesn't mean that racism didn't exist all over the world before that, but it was simply just not to the same degree or with such devastating effect."

this is utter tripe and is largely without historical (and mind you recorded history is on my argument's side here since whites have only been "in power" for about 600 years) merit. not saying white euros are angels, they just aren't the ones who have perpetrated racism with the most "devastating effect" as you so erroneously contend. 

as for what is "racism"?  that is an excellent question.  is Dave Matthews African-American?  what does it mean to be African-American definitionally?  what in god's name is an Asian-American?  or what is a Latino for that matter? all of these categories are hilarious attempts to conveniently compartmentalize people.  what a joke.  even European-American is silly.  Greeks have far more in common with Turks than Finns. the whole thing (and here is where i get to AA) is laughable.  my niece is 1/2 Mexican and yet she has bond hair and blue eyes.  is she any less Mexican, any less American? will she get preferential treatment for admissions to school when she gets around to applying (you bet your ass she will).  is it deserved?

I notice that you didn't answer either of my two questions, but you sure are fired up.

Just to remind you, my questions were:

1)  What assertions do you think I'm making?  (I'll help you: I want you to put my words in your words so I can see how you're understanding me.)
2)  How do you define "racism"?  (I'll help you again: I mean, what is racism, and how does it hurt people?)

I said "Not WHO is racist," and then you went talking about all sorts of people.  I want you to tell me WHAT you consider "racism" so I can see if we're even talking about the same thing.  I don't want to have to assume anything from other things you are saying -- I want you to tell me directly. 

[Astro]

Just to be clear: I'm using a patronizing tone because I think I'm better than other people.  Elephants in the room and all that.