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Author Topic: Why I support Affirmative Action..  (Read 23315 times)

ashVU08

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Re: Why I support Affirmative Action..
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2007, 08:23:08 PM »

I'll give you Jim Crow, at least among some older folks (though you probably don't know them).  But that's the most innocuous element presented, and no one has established how experiencing this as a kid directly impacts people today.

What?   Something that directly affected my parents couldn't possibly affect me?  Or, something that directly affected my grandparents couldn't possibly affect me through my parents?

huh?

You're not going far enough in your analysis.  I'd suggest that even if you had been directly impacted by Jim Crow laws or lynchings or even slavery, you're not directly affected if it's not happening to you at this very moment.  Once the moment where you're being discriminated against passes, you're no longer affected in any way whatsoever.  :)

TITCR.  FINALLY we're getting some clear thinking here.   ;)


1) Jim Crow/segregation lasted well into the 1960's because Southern states were extremely resistant to changing their "way of life". People that were in high school and elementary schools at that point are NOT all old, ailing people. In fact, I recently spoke with a black woman in her late 50's or early 60's who was the first black person to enter her high school in 1968.  1968 was not that long ago.
2) "Once the moment where you're being discriminated against passes, you're no longer affected in any way whatsoever.  :)" SERIOUSLY??? Hmmm... so psychological damage must not be relevant... and you must believe that everyone lives in their own bubble -- the discrimination that happens to my mother or grandmother in no way has anything to do with me?? GET REAL.

Although I wasn't tied up with a chain and made to work out in the blazing sun all day with the occasional whip across my back or experience segregation does not mean that I don't experience its effects. You cannot deny that decades of housing discrimination(minorities were not allowed to live in Levittown thank ya very much), loan discrimination (ever heard of "red-lining"?), and job discrimination have not stopped affecting the way that a majority of black people (and other minorities for that matter) live. If a black grandmother couldn't obtain a high paying job simply because she was black will determine the resources and opportunities her children have and generations to follow. I'm not saying that people can't rise up out of a bleak situation, but if you've been surrounded by poverty/low income, violence, and the door just keeps getting shut in your face for your entire life it's extremely difficult to get the motivation to do anything different.
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Leo

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Re: Why I support Affirmative Action..
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2007, 12:32:02 AM »
The truth is that no one living today actually experienced slavery, which makes reparations an inherently flawed concept.  I would, however, support free passage back to Africa for anyone who desires it -- to the extent any descendant has a desire to return to their ancestral homeland, that would appear an appropriate remedy.


 :D :D :D
LMAO!!!

What makes this even funnier is that I know you're completely sincere.
I swear, it's like you guys struggle to top each other.

1654134681665465

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Re: Why I support Affirmative Action..
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2007, 11:14:10 AM »
I'm not saying that people can't rise up out of a bleak situation, but if you've been surrounded by poverty/low income, violence, and the door just keeps getting shut in your face for your entire life it's extremely difficult to get the motivation to do anything different.

Yeah, but the door isn't being shut in the face of African American's anymore-therefore we do not need AA.  I could see the need for in in the 60s, 70s, and 80s but the current generation of college kids and young adults didn't grow up during an era of severe racism.  That doesn't mean that none of them have ever experienced racism, but that they are just as likely to be victims now as anyone of another race is. 

Kirk Lazarus

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Re: Why I support Affirmative Action..
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2007, 11:23:37 AM »
I'm not saying that people can't rise up out of a bleak situation, but if you've been surrounded by poverty/low income, violence, and the door just keeps getting shut in your face for your entire life it's extremely difficult to get the motivation to do anything different.

Yeah, but the door isn't being shut in the face of African American's anymore-therefore we do not need AA.  I could see the need for in in the 60s, 70s, and 80s but the current generation of college kids and young adults didn't grow up during an era of severe racism.  That doesn't mean that none of them have ever experienced racism, but that they are just as likely to be victims now as anyone of another race is. 


link?
YLS c/o 2009

1654134681665465

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Re: Why I support Affirmative Action..
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2007, 11:55:59 AM »
After you give me a link that shows that racism in America warrants the use of AA. 

right now

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Re: Why I support Affirmative Action..
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2007, 12:01:56 PM »
but the current generation of college kids and young adults didn't grow up during an era of severe racism. 

are you kidding?  no you're not.  i know better than that.  goodness.

After you give me a link that shows that racism in America warrants the use of AA. 

no.  the presumption should be that there IS racism in America.  look at the history.  you're telling me that you think that social engineering can in a few short decades so fundamentally change the culture of a nation?  if you honestly think that, you must be some sort of bolshevik.

again, the baseline presumption is that there is racism.  prove that it's not longer an issue and i'll gladly throw AA out the window.

She was being sarcastic.  I wish she was still around.   :(

who was still around?

1654134681665465

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Re: Why I support Affirmative Action..
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2007, 12:23:43 PM »
Actually, I believe that any government program that benefits one group over another based solely on race should have the burden to prove that it is still needed and that the societal flaws that it was created to address are still prevalent.  If it can be shown that racism is still prevalent in America then AA should continue for a few more years and then be reassessed.  A limitless race-based program that always assumes that America is racist is going to continue even after racism is no longer a legitimate issue. 

right now

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Re: Why I support Affirmative Action..
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2007, 12:26:37 PM »
I believe that...

so once we prove something, we should have to prove it over and over and over again.  that's great.  good luck with that.

1654134681665465

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Re: Why I support Affirmative Action..
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2007, 12:31:55 PM »
As far as history, I DO think that American social culture can and has changed very quickly.  There is a huge difference between the treatment of blacks in the 50s and today.  That is only 50 years.  Look at the acceptance of homosexuality, which has changed dramatically in only a couple of decades.  Saying that because slavery and racism occurred for hundreds of years in the US, that it cannot be changed in a few short decades is completely false. 

First of all, it hasn't been a "few short decades".  The abolition and equal rights movements were well under way before the major transformations that occurred in the 1860s and 1960s.  With greater access to media and information (thanks in large part to the internet), communities are no longer closed minded bubbles like they were in the past.  I believe that the social ideologies of America have changed and continue to change very rapidly. 

Another example would be Nazi Germany.  Look what a "few short decades" did them?  They went from the holocaust to one of the biggest allies of Israel. 

right now

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Re: Why I support Affirmative Action..
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2007, 12:34:40 PM »
As far as history, I DO think that American social culture can and has changed very quickly.  There is a huge difference between the treatment of blacks in the 50s and today.  That is only 50 years.  Look at the acceptance of homosexuality, which has changed dramatically in only a couple of decades.  Saying that because slavery and racism occurred for hundreds of years in the US, that it cannot be changed in a few short decades is completely false. 

First of all, it hasn't been a "few short decades".  The abolition and equal rights movements were well under way before the major transformations that occurred in the 1860s and 1960s.  With greater access to media and information (thanks in large part to the internet), communities are no longer closed minded bubbles like they were in the past.  I believe that the social ideologies of America have changed and continue to change very rapidly. 

Another example would be Nazi Germany.  Look what a "few short decades" did them?  They went from the holocaust to one of the biggest allies of Israel. 

i see now.  you're not so much a racist as you are a naive optimist. 

here's a tip: people are bastards.  bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling. 

the world's a much nastier place than you think it is.  accept it now because it just gets more painful to do later.

::kills self::