HELP! St. John's ($) full time vs. Brooklyn part time

[nydcli12]

Thanks RobWreck.  See folks, that's some good advice/insight.

Haven't visited Bklyn's campus yet.  I might do so soon.  I did attend a St. Johns open house for admitted students though, and like you, I definitely felt at ease.  Pretty impressive facilities and overall quality environment.  The only thing w/ Bklyn is its location right in the heart of all the major NY/US courts.

I'm still leaning strongly towards St. John's at this point, so it's likely I'll see you in the fall.

Thanks again!

[Mpmav1]

I visited both schools and had two very different experiences.  Before flying to NYC I had my heart set on Brooklyn… which very much changed after the visit.  I was completely frustrated and annoyed with almost every interaction I had with Brooklyn and was absolutely impressed with St. John’s.   My questions were an annoyance to every staff member (but one) at Brooklyn Law while every St. John’s rep was very helpful.  I even had a higher up at St. John’s chat with me for over an hour discussing the strengths and weaknesses of their school.  To me, this approach begins to reflect how one will be treated as a student and alumni.

Please don’t read this as bashing Brooklyn as I am still torn between the two.  But I do agree that visiting these schools is especially key as they have very different feels.  For me, moving from the west coast, I realized the importance of having this supportive community (at least as can expect in law school).  I also will probably be happier if I am surrounded in a space that feels like my vision of a university: grass, space, trees, space.   

So, for whatever it is worth there are my random late night reflections.  Good luck to all trying to make these tough school decisions.

[cannotpick]

A lot of people are pointing to the fact that it is only a 10 spot difference in the rankings. In fairness, this is a recent phenomenon. St. John's just soared in the US News over the past 2 years. I would suspect that they will fall back down soon. From my perspective (as a BLS rising 3L), I think there is a significant difference in job opportunities. I suspect (I don't know this for a fact, but would be willing to put $$ on it) that if you look into how many firms recruit at each school's OCI, BLS will have a significant edge.

[Mpmav1]

A lot of people are pointing to the fact that it is only a 10 spot difference in the rankings. In fairness, this is a recent phenomenon. St. John's just soared in the US News over the past 2 years. I would suspect that they will fall back down soon.

Not necessarily so.  I see your point regarding the rankings in 06’ and 07’, but 04’ 05’ shows a similar spread.
2004- B-58, S-69, (11 pt dif)
2005- B-67, S-77, (10 pt dif)
2006- B-58, S-77, (19 pt dif)
2007- B-58, S-80, (22 pt dif)
2008- B-60, S-70, (10 pt dif)

From my perspective (as a BLS rising 3L), I think there is a significant difference in job opportunities. I suspect (I don't know this for a fact, but would be willing to put $$ on it) that if you look into how many firms recruit at each school's OCI, BLS will have a significant edge.

I am very public interest focused… would you say the same for individuals going in the public interest field?  Thanks!

[cannotpick]

I suspect (I don't know this for a fact, but would be willing to put $$ on it) that if you look into how many firms recruit at each school's OCI, BLS will have a significant edge.

According to NALP, it's 143 for Brooklyn and 124 for St. Johns.  These numbers do not exclude multiple offices.

Without knowing anything about those firms (e.g. maybe they have more small firms or gov't), I gotta say it's slightly less significant than I thought. Wouldn't be the 1st time I was wrong!

[nycesq2005]

St Johns Law v. Brooklyn Law:

Yes, Bklyn Law edges out SJU only A LITTLE BIT with respect to student quality and overall job opportunities.

However, as a Bklyn alum, I think your best option is St. Johns because of the $$. Financially speaking, Bklyn isn't THAT much better than SJU when it comes to the grand scheme of things. If you want to work for a big firm making 160K, you need to be at least top 10-20% from either school, thats the bottom line.

Secondly, BLS part time is indeed a placebo for the full time. I transferred from PT day to Full Time after my 1st semester. At the time, I had seat deposits at TWO other law schools because my admissions decisions didn't go out until mid-May (some  law schools kept me on hold for 4 months because of a GPA/LSAT split on 2 of my college transcripts). There is very little difference between the Part Time and Full Time divisions. (usually only 1 or 2 classes at most). About a 1/3rd of the Part Time students transfer into Full time their 2nd semester or their 2nd year. The top 10% of the Bklyn Law 1L class usually transfer out (NYU/Columbia, other T10 schools) plus about 3% of the entering class drop out of law school altogether (decide not be lawyers) so that leaves open a bunch of Full Time spots open in 2L. So don't be put off that you were offered a Part Time spot by the Admissions folks. Transferring is pretty easy and standard.

So in the end, if St. John;s would have offered me a 30K scholarship, theres no way I would have picked Bklyn - because the loan debt matters when you come out and start loooking for jobs, and the majority of small firms offer pretty low salaries.

My suggestion: pick SJU, take the $$ and think of the options you will have post-graduation that your classmates who come out with 6 figure debt may not have.

[basal]

Keep in mind:

St. John's is an extremely cutthroat school. Most of the student body will be fighting to keep scholarship money.

[Mpmav1]

Keep in mind:

St. John's is an extremely cutthroat school. Most of the student body will be fighting to keep scholarship money.

I have no first hand knowledge, but my St. John's scholarship offer was simply stay in the top 50%.  That seems VERY lenient comparatively.  Why would you say St. John's is any more cutthroat than other schools?

[basal]

Why? Because I know first-hand. I have friends who lost their scholarships. They all say it's an extremely competitive school.

You can also check out Princeton Review. St. John's is listed in the top 5 of most competitive schools.

[Mpmav1]

Why? Because I know first-hand. I have friends who lost their scholarships. They all say it's an extremely competitive school.

You can also check out Princeton Review. St. John's is listed in the top 5 of most competitive schools.

REALLY!  That's a lot more accurate info than I have as just a general feel of the place.  Any chance the article is posted online anywhere?  I would be very interested to learn more.

Thanks for the info!