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Author Topic: Grab your future by the horns  (Read 6125 times)

grlykoolblah

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Re: Grab your future by the horns
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2007, 01:29:15 PM »
"The pessimistic—and we believe, more likely—explanation for the surge in post-graduation employment numbers is that some law schools aggressively mischaracterize (or artificially inflate) the employment status of their graduates. For example, at least some of the gains in post-graduation have been the product of short-term internships provided by law schools to its recent graduates in order to boost employment statistics for U.S. News purposes.57 Some is due to clever survey techniques designed to maximize employment numbers rather than actual improvements in employment.58 Further, post-graduation employment for U.S. News purposes does not require a law school to distinguish between legal employment that requires a law degree and non-legal jobs that are taken out of necessity to pay for living expenses." pg 14
Morriss, Andrew P. and Henderson, William D. , "Measuring Outcomes: Post-Graduation Measures of Success in the U.S. News & World Report Law School Rankings" (January 2007). Indiana Legal Studies Research Paper No. 69 Available at SSRN: http://ssrn.com/abstract=954604

uweckyle

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Re: Grab your future by the horns
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2007, 05:15:41 PM »
I've found that a good way to get a breakdown of the employment numbers is to simply ask the school.  If they give an overall generic percentage ask them for a more detailed breakdown – how many people are working in firms, both large and small, government, etc.  I've found that this worked for most schools.   The ones that couldn't give me a detailed breakdown of where their grads were employed made me nervous.  Telling me that they have 98 percent employment means nothing to me if I do not know where these people are employed.  For all I know it could be Burger King.  I figure the least these schools can do is give me detailed and accurate information if I am going to be given them a boat load of money.

wiimote

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Re: Grab your future by the horns
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2007, 08:30:09 PM »
The school literature says 98% of the 2005 class was employed 6-9 months after graduation. 

Student loans have a way of forcing you into a job you didn't want.

wiimote

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Re: Grab your future by the horns
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2007, 08:33:43 PM »
I think you have to know all the facts and be realistic that you might not be happy with a 40 or 50K job when you're paying almost $1k a month in debt,

That's fine, but just note the monthly payment on $150,000 of debt is more than $1,000. A lot more.

wiimote

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Re: Grab your future by the horns
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2007, 08:36:43 PM »
seton hall numbers?

Seton Hall
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Total graduates: 414
Graduates known to be employed at graduation: 88.8% (this is high for a tier 2)
Starting Salaries (2005 Graduates Employed Full-time)
Private sector (25th-75th percentile): $52,000 - $95,000
Median in the private sector: $60,000 (ouch. this is awful for a NYC tier 2. Brooklyn's is almost twice this amount.)
Percent in the private sector who reported salary information: 50%
Median in public service: $35,000

Here is a blog devoted to Seton Hall's poor career prospects. http://bigdebtsmalllaw.blogspot.com . Apparently someone (Seton Hall?) asked blogspot to take it down.

Texas2L

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Re: Grab your future by the horns
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2007, 12:12:19 AM »
I think you have to know all the facts and be realistic that you might not be happy with a 40 or 50K job when you're paying almost $1k a month in debt,

That's fine, but just note the monthly payment on $150,000 of debt is more than $1,000. A lot more.

Stafford loans can be financed for 30 years, so a $150k debt at 6.8% interest comes out to $977/mo.  Not that I think thats a good idea, you end up paying more in interest, but it gets the payment down and you can refi later to 5 or 10 years once you're established.

dukedogalley

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Re: Grab your future by the horns
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2007, 08:51:20 AM »
seton hall numbers?

Seton Hall
-----------------
Total graduates: 414
Graduates known to be employed at graduation: 88.8% (this is high for a tier 2)
Starting Salaries (2005 Graduates Employed Full-time)
Private sector (25th-75th percentile): $52,000 - $95,000
Median in the private sector: $60,000 (ouch. this is awful for a NYC tier 2. Brooklyn's is almost twice this amount.)
Percent in the private sector who reported salary information: 50%
Median in public service: $35,000

Here is a blog devoted to Seton Hall's poor career prospects. http://bigdebtsmalllaw.blogspot.com . Apparently someone (Seton Hall?) asked blogspot to take it down.


I wonder why the median is so low, any ideas?  It is expensive too, I am apprehensive but I will be attending this fall.  I have some solid connects in biglaw - as long as I don't finish bottom 50% I should be OK.

Why do you think only 50% have reported income from private sector?

Vapid Unicorn

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Re: Grab your future by the horns
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2007, 10:15:42 AM »
I think it's funny that after starting a thread about how you should aggressively seek employment data from schools, wiimote is making judgments about the worth of schools based on over-simplified USNews employment data.  There are too many factors that affect those numbers to be able to look at an employment rate and a median salary and conclude that some school is or is not a wise investment.
Just another 2L.

wiimote

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Re: Grab your future by the horns
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2007, 11:27:23 AM »
I think it's funny that after starting a thread about how you should aggressively seek employment data from schools, wiimote is making judgments about the worth of schools based on over-simplified USNews employment data.

Your school?

After I show you your school's numbers, you can use your multi-factor analysis to rationalize why those won't be the jobs you get.

wiimote

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Re: Grab your future by the horns
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2007, 11:44:32 AM »
I wonder why the median is so low, any ideas?  It is expensive too, I am apprehensive but I will be attending this fall.  I have some solid connects in biglaw - as long as I don't finish bottom 50% I should be OK.

Why do you think only 50% have reported income from private sector?

I don't know but that's the lowest median I've seen in a big city tier 2 school.

I'm not sure why less than 100% report their salary information. Some people think schools use this to exclude low salaries, but I'm not sure. It might be a representative sample.

I don't know what class rank you need, if you have connections, but there is no chance in hell top 50% Seton Hall would get you biglaw on your own.